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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality

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  #1  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:15 AM
Ciqala
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The Trickster, Heyoka, Raven and soul confusion

Does anyone have Raven, the trickster as a totem? Or Coyote, or any other form he takes? Does anyone know about Heyoka?

I just had an unreal and delusional feeling realization; I think I may be possibly, the incarnation of a deity trickster, I donít think I am actually a human soul, if that makes any sense, I just enjoy the games, of living on this earth, because it is mighty fun, i even enjoy playing jokes on myself. But then, when I try to understand that more, it just makes me feel delusional. I am human. I am forgetful. When I am with my spirit guides I feel incompetent, stupid, and not superior enough to be around them, and I make lots of mistakes, and I like to laugh at those mistakes.

But I have read the trickster deity animal totem, is one of the only, rare deity spirits that are able to enjoy human and earthly things. I canít possibly be the deity I see, which is Raven in his many human forms. So what am I? Are there more than just one trickster in this world, or is he, just one? I know, Coyote, has a different persona than Raven from reading documents about it, but I have never met Coyote myself, so I donít know if they are different tricksters.

All my life I knew I was a trickster in nature, Iíve always known I am heyoka, have always been told so too, and justÖ a trickster in nature. But that confuses me. Does anyone here know more about Heyoka? Sacred Clown? Is that different than being a trickster, I always thought they seemed similar, but perhaps I am missing out on something. I always thought Heyoka was more of a way that a person is, but what is the spiritual concept? Maybe that is why i feel like i am more than just a trickster in human nature?

And I just thought I was just bonded with Raven immensely, because of that I was like him. So why, did I suddenly get the realization I was more than just a human soul and more than just a trickster in nature? It makes no sense to me. We are very close.

Also my own spirit guide, referred to ME as Raven. Is it possible, that I am actually a descendant of raven? Or is it possible that I am in union with raven? Could an animal totem (or a trickster) be your soul mate? Iíve always felt that, but it felt too honorable and unreal to believe. I mean, from my view of raven, he seems, to be, unlike any animal totem I have ever met. And the accounts of his documented games in history, have been interesting, thatís for sure Ė like perhaps he used to be human, but gained unordinary powers or vice versa, but they even say that he helped create the earth. He has went through bad times, just like humans, he went through a time period of destructing mainly other animals (some people) through greed, for his personal gains, but also has always been on the side of people, helping them out, and over time, he has become good, he has greed, just like humans, he is obsessed with food, and he likes to raid my fridge, he enjoys delving into sexual things like humansÖ well, some of his history, has made sure to make many people frightened of him. Of course I am not afraid of him. He reminds me of myself.

I was pulled into a room of a bunch of native people wearing animal masks, like either they were shape shifters, or just honoring animals, and they were giving me past life memories. And I was called Raven, to make things weirder, Raven called me raven when he called me over to him. Makes no sense.
And then when I was thinking back about my past life incarnations just a awhile ago, I had this realization...
Or am I being delusional, and not getting things right?
I know Raven and I go way back. I need help sorting out my own ambiguity.
My existence puzzles me. Are all people, with raven as a totem, tricksters? Or does my trickster nature, actually lead to me being a trickster spirit?

Well how fun! I'm sorry to ask a question i could easily solve through asking myself. Or asking Raven. But raven is a joker. And, i don't always trust myself! myself is very contradicting and insane!
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:21 AM
Kaere Kaere is offline
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I know what you mean about Raven, but I'm not sure he's in your life or close to you in order to bring out your trickster spiritness, if that's making sense?

What message could Raven be bringing to you - have a very close look through any legends you can recall, any story you can find - and see if his tricks have more purpose than just to trick. Even Loki has a motive for spreading his trickery and fire and chaos.

What does he want you to find in yourself - a strength, what motive, what reason? Have a care when dealing with Raven, be clever, his lessons can be hard.
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:03 AM
Ciqala
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Then I just am a trickster?

Ha! Raven! He's my buddy, i know all too well of his loops, jokes, tricks, bringing great fortune, he's not a bad guy.
Well, i just asked what he wants me to find in myself as of now.
He wants me to search inside ambiguity! What iss ambiguity? Well ambiguity means in definition

"Ambiguity is a term used in writing and math, and under conditions where information can be understood or interpreted in more than one way and is distinct from vagueness, which is a statement about the lack of precision contained or available in the information. Context may play a role in resolving ambiguity. For example the same piece of information may be ambiguous in one context and unambiguous in another.

Thesaurus meanings of ambiguity:
Noun 1. ambiguity - an expression whose meaning cannot be determined from its context
loophole - an ambiguity (especially one in the text of a law or contract) that makes it possible to evade a difficulty or obligation
amphibology, amphiboly - an ambiguous grammatical construction; e.g., `they are flying planes' can mean either that someone is flying planes or that something is flying planes
parisology - the use of ambiguous words
double entendre - an ambiguity with one interpretation that is indelicate
locution, saying, expression - a word or phrase that particular people use in particular situations; "pardon the expression"
2. ambiguity - unclearness by virtue of having more than one meaning
equivocalness
unclearness - incomprehensibility as a result of not being clear
evasiveness, prevarication, equivocation - intentionally vague or ambiguous
lexical ambiguity, polysemy - the ambiguity of an individual word or phrase that can be used (in different contexts) to express two or more different meanings
twilight zone, no man's land - the ambiguous region between two categories or states or conditions (usually containing some features of both); "but there is still a twilight zone, the tantalizing occurrences that are probably noise but might possibly be a signal"; "in the twilight zone between humor and vulgarity"; "in that no man's land between negotiation and aggression"
unambiguity, unequivocalness - clarity achieved by the avoidance of ambiguity"

well. that still does not solve my soul dilemma
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:07 AM
Kaere Kaere is offline
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I don't think he means for you to find anything in the definition of ambiguity :)

In what way are you ambiguous in your life? Do you fit in - do you do things differently than others - do others sometimes say they don't get you? etc etc. Do you say one thing but almost mean another - do you feel your life is "unclear" or "unfocused"?

Ask yourself those kinds of questions, do a brainstorming tree on paper, follow your thoughts and maybe something a little more personal will come to you?
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  #5  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:52 AM
Ciqala
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no he doesn't, he wants me to live in ambiguity, to use it, to understand life in that concept. But of course i have to understand the definition before i can use it... I already do, to certain extents, i am after all a paradox. Because how can you outwit yourself. It's rather easy. Do you notice a pattern here? Do you understand my question? I know i am not overly clear when i write, and i can be confusing, i'm sorry about that I know who i am, i just want to know if it's even possible. i could be delirious. delusional. I want to know if i can actually be a trickster spirit incarnated in human form, and if my duty is to release all that i am capable of. my life journey as a healer, to heal in forms of ambiguity.

Nope, i do not fit in, nor do i want to! I do things differently indeed, and i would never change that! No one ever gets me, actually a few people can listen and understand to a basic extent. I usually say one thing and mean the other. My life is both clear and unfocused. A little more personal, is revealing more about my trickster nature. I don't think raven, has anything to do with it, that is just me. i want to know if my realization is probable.
but i wouldn't know, perhaps all folks with raven as a guide, are grand masters in trickery. or perhaps i am just insane and destined to play in forms of sanity in order to heal insanity in myself and others.
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  #6  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:56 PM
Makoiyi Makoiyi is offline
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Any Heyoka Medicine works in the opposite that is the nature of it. Both Raven and Coyote Medicine's are good at making you look at yourself, though Coyote can add some fun to this his lessons they are still deep. Raven tends to be more serious at least that's what the traditions I grew up with have always said.

As you said in another post on this forum these traditions aren't written about as a rule and for good reason, also most of them are verbal, so I won’t be going into them in much detail on here but if you wish to contact me by pm, I'll be happy to talk things over with you.
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:24 PM
Ciqala
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Raven isn't all that serious lol.
Yeah i'm not asking about traditions, well if it must get into it, anyone can PM me, i'm just trying to figure out what i am.
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  #8  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:21 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Bumped it.

Just had to bring it up.

Loved reading the plight of a trickster and the ambiguity.

Hope your doing well Ciqala.

I understood everything you wrote, but then I didn't.
You know what I mean.
** ***

^^^^
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