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  #11  
Old 12-01-2020, 03:33 PM
NoOne NoOne is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 880
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivyanshuChangkakoti
I'm blessed to be given such wonderful and insightful answers. Thanks a lot people!

The concept of Moksha is a little bit more clearer in my mind now, but I'll only totally understand it when I finally get there.

I started my spiritual journey mainly because of Sadhguru, have to give him credit for that. His eye opening speeches and videos made me pay more attention to the subtler aspects of life. I've always been a negative person so maybe that's why I made all sorts of negative assumptions upon hearing his explanation of Moksha. Anyways, you guys picked me up when I started to stumble. This is a great community indeed.

I've gone across many of Sadhguru's articles and videos on Moksha but an article in particular named Spirituality Means Self-Destruction raised those fearful questions in my head. You can find it on the Isha Foundation website. I would have attached a direct link but it seems I don't have enough posts.
If you guys could give me some clarification on that article, I would gladly welcome it!
If not, then that's totally fine too!

There is a grain of truth in what he writes, but he seems to misunderstand the concept of Universality and the Self.

A common mistake made by people who have not had the experience of Unity Consciousness, is to assume that it leads to annihilation of Self and individuality. Nothing could be further from the truth.

When we talk about Self-realisation, the realisation part is to be meant literally. It literally means realising (in a giant "aha"-moment") that the Self is all there is, ever was and will be and you are "It".

When that happens, the Self expands into Infinity and becomes universal. It is no longer bound by the material realm, but is omniscient and boundless. Instead of a loss of Individuality, it is actually an expansion of it, an empowerment of the Individual, which goes from small and constrained to endless and unbound, limitless even. To use Sanskrit terms, you could say it is the Atman realising it is the Brahman and that there is nothing else outside of it.

This universal consciousness can only exist outside the bounds of the human body and the material realm in general. So, whilst in this body, you can become universal for brief periods and learn from the experience, but you have to constrain your own consciousness into the bounds of matter and the human body if you wish to continue existing in this world. That is why, btw, gods do not generally interact with us directly, but rather send messengers or create an avatar for the purpose of constraining their cosmic consciousness for a brief period to achieve some purpose.

There are various forms of unity and universal consciousness, most of which are completely unfathomable to us. The easiest way to explain it, is to refer to each of them as a separate realm or universe, which don't generally intersect with each other, that is, they exist on their own and independent of each other, but there is still a continuum of universal realms which can know of each other, or connect with each other in some manner.

I write about the Elohim a lot, which is the Unity consciousness of Heaven.

It is made up of many minds, each of which is its own realm, yet they have a Unity "mode" so to speak and can exist and think in Unison. This Unity is vibrational in nature, because they work for the highest purpose, they become One due to vibrational compatibility, creating a chorus made up of individual voices, yet they can and do separate into individuality whenever it is required or desired. This is the only difference between God and gods, which is worth mentioning. When we go to Heaven, we become part of this Chorus, which in art is generally depicted as a Chorus of Angels.

Moksha is about reclaiming your individual power, becoming universal and connecting to a higher reality. Rather than losing your individuality, you enhance it and become universal. The Self does not disappear into a soup of nothingness as many assume, far from it. To put it simply, you join a chorus of minds, which you can be part of as long as you like, or you can act individually, in which case you possess the infinite power of God and you are in effect part of the mind of God. You are That.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2020, 04:49 PM
Little Creek77 Little Creek77 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 206
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You are being conned. Be afraid, be very afraid.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2020, 07:13 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivyanshuChangkakoti
I follow Sadhguru and I've watched a lot of his videos that dive into deep spiritual waters. As a result, it became clear to me that the spiritual process is not a process of growth but one of self-annihilation.

The end goal of the entire spiritual process to dismantle the karmic shell that holds your life within it and ultimately merge with the universe. Basically, you cease to exist and are freed from the whole cycle of birth and death. Sadhguru gives a great analogy of a soap bubble bursting which results in the air within it merging and become one with the air all around.

This ultimate annihilation of self that waits at the end of the spiritual journey doesn't sound very attractive to me. In fact, it makes me very scared and reluctant to begin my spiritual journey. I'd rather remain trapped in the cycle of birth and death retaining my consciousness and individual identity than to attain moksha (ultimate liberation/annihilation which I talked about above). Despite this fact, why are so many willingly walking down the spiritual path to attain moksha? Why would anyone want to stop existing altogether? Do I have a wrong idea about it? Is moksha something to be afraid of?

Sorry if it seems like a lot but these are some of the burning questions that have been bothering me lately. I would really really appreciate it if someone could clarify this for me with legitimate answers.

Thank You

We always find what we need to open and understand, clear things in us that might be holding on, fearing, confused by.

I listen to Sadhguru all the time. I get excited by the potentials within myself now. Now that I’m not contained by fear or grief, I can listen and find things that support my lived experience.

The self that is destructed is the self that fears, the self that is conditioned, the self that contains, the self that isn’t living with truth that oneself decides. From their you become what your seeking, what is ‘truth’ as you are as your true nature.

Your questioning and already have opened the spiritual journey.
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“Within you is the light of one thousand suns-Robert Adams
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2020, 11:46 PM
DivyanshuChangkakoti DivyanshuChangkakoti is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOne
There is a grain of truth in what he writes, but he seems to misunderstand the concept of Universality and the Self.

A common mistake made by people who have not had the experience of Unity Consciousness, is to assume that it leads to annihilation of Self and individuality. Nothing could be further from the truth.

When we talk about Self-realisation, the realisation part is to be meant literally. It literally means realising (in a giant "aha"-moment") that the Self is all there is, ever was and will be and you are "It".

When that happens, the Self expands into Infinity and becomes universal. It is no longer bound by the material realm, but is omniscient and boundless. Instead of a loss of Individuality, it is actually an expansion of it, an empowerment of the Individual, which goes from small and constrained to endless and unbound, limitless even. To use Sanskrit terms, you could say it is the Atman realising it is the Brahman and that there is nothing else outside of it.

This universal consciousness can only exist outside the bounds of the human body and the material realm in general. So, whilst in this body, you can become universal for brief periods and learn from the experience, but you have to constrain your own consciousness into the bounds of matter and the human body if you wish to continue existing in this world. That is why, btw, gods do not generally interact with us directly, but rather send messengers or create an avatar for the purpose of constraining their cosmic consciousness for a brief period to achieve some purpose.

There are various forms of unity and universal consciousness, most of which are completely unfathomable to us. The easiest way to explain it, is to refer to each of them as a separate realm or universe, which don't generally intersect with each other, that is, they exist on their own and independent of each other, but there is still a continuum of universal realms which can know of each other, or connect with each other in some manner.

I write about the Elohim a lot, which is the Unity consciousness of Heaven.

It is made up of many minds, each of which is its own realm, yet they have a Unity "mode" so to speak and can exist and think in Unison. This Unity is vibrational in nature, because they work for the highest purpose, they become One due to vibrational compatibility, creating a chorus made up of individual voices, yet they can and do separate into individuality whenever it is required or desired. This is the only difference between God and gods, which is worth mentioning. When we go to Heaven, we become part of this Chorus, which in art is generally depicted as a Chorus of Angels.

Moksha is about reclaiming your individual power, becoming universal and connecting to a higher reality. Rather than losing your individuality, you enhance it and become universal. The Self does not disappear into a soup of nothingness as many assume, far from it. To put it simply, you join a chorus of minds, which you can be part of as long as you like, or you can act individually, in which case you possess the infinite power of God and you are in effect part of the mind of God. You are That.

Well, I would not like to believe that the only spritual guru (Sadhguru) that I look upto might be lacking in his spiritual knowledge but sure anything is possible haha

Your answers are very clear and comforting, thank you. I daresay you might have the potential of becoming a spiritual leader yourself!

You speak with so much clarity and confidence about moksha. I guess that is what a taste of the ultimate does to you. Sounds exciting :)

Now I have a better understanding as to why so many people embark on a spiritual path
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2020, 11:46 PM
DivyanshuChangkakoti DivyanshuChangkakoti is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOne
There is a grain of truth in what he writes, but he seems to misunderstand the concept of Universality and the Self.

A common mistake made by people who have not had the experience of Unity Consciousness, is to assume that it leads to annihilation of Self and individuality. Nothing could be further from the truth.

When we talk about Self-realisation, the realisation part is to be meant literally. It literally means realising (in a giant "aha"-moment") that the Self is all there is, ever was and will be and you are "It".

When that happens, the Self expands into Infinity and becomes universal. It is no longer bound by the material realm, but is omniscient and boundless. Instead of a loss of Individuality, it is actually an expansion of it, an empowerment of the Individual, which goes from small and constrained to endless and unbound, limitless even. To use Sanskrit terms, you could say it is the Atman realising it is the Brahman and that there is nothing else outside of it.

This universal consciousness can only exist outside the bounds of the human body and the material realm in general. So, whilst in this body, you can become universal for brief periods and learn from the experience, but you have to constrain your own consciousness into the bounds of matter and the human body if you wish to continue existing in this world. That is why, btw, gods do not generally interact with us directly, but rather send messengers or create an avatar for the purpose of constraining their cosmic consciousness for a brief period to achieve some purpose.

There are various forms of unity and universal consciousness, most of which are completely unfathomable to us. The easiest way to explain it, is to refer to each of them as a separate realm or universe, which don't generally intersect with each other, that is, they exist on their own and independent of each other, but there is still a continuum of universal realms which can know of each other, or connect with each other in some manner.

I write about the Elohim a lot, which is the Unity consciousness of Heaven.

It is made up of many minds, each of which is its own realm, yet they have a Unity "mode" so to speak and can exist and think in Unison. This Unity is vibrational in nature, because they work for the highest purpose, they become One due to vibrational compatibility, creating a chorus made up of individual voices, yet they can and do separate into individuality whenever it is required or desired. This is the only difference between God and gods, which is worth mentioning. When we go to Heaven, we become part of this Chorus, which in art is generally depicted as a Chorus of Angels.

Moksha is about reclaiming your individual power, becoming universal and connecting to a higher reality. Rather than losing your individuality, you enhance it and become universal. The Self does not disappear into a soup of nothingness as many assume, far from it. To put it simply, you join a chorus of minds, which you can be part of as long as you like, or you can act individually, in which case you possess the infinite power of God and you are in effect part of the mind of God. You are That.

Well, I would not like to believe that the only spritual guru (Sadhguru) that I look upto might be lacking in his spiritual knowledge but sure anything is possible haha

Your answers are very clear and comforting, thank you. I daresay you might have the potential of becoming a spiritual leader yourself!

You speak with so much clarity and confidence about moksha. I guess that is what a taste of the ultimate does to you. Sounds exciting :)

Now I have a better understanding as to why so many people embark on a spiritual path
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2020, 11:51 PM
DivyanshuChangkakoti DivyanshuChangkakoti is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
We always find what we need to open and understand, clear things in us that might be holding on, fearing, confused by.

I listen to Sadhguru all the time. I get excited by the potentials within myself now. Now that I’m not contained by fear or grief, I can listen and find things that support my lived experience.

The self that is destructed is the self that fears, the self that is conditioned, the self that contains, the self that isn’t living with truth that oneself decides. From their you become what your seeking, what is ‘truth’ as you are as your true nature.

Your questioning and already have opened the spiritual journey.

Glad to know you enjoy watching Sadhguru's videos.

Yea, it's natural for any spiritual seeker to face these fearful questions at some point in their journey because one of the end results is the dissolution of the ego. So the ego will use every trick up it's sleeve to deter you from moving forward.
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2020, 11:52 PM
DivyanshuChangkakoti DivyanshuChangkakoti is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
 
I didn't realise I somehow posted the same reply twice. Sorry for that. My browser behaves so weird sometimes....
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  #18  
Old 13-01-2020, 02:32 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: India
Posts: 4,073
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***

As usual, deep insights from NoOne

If we cannot immediately accept non-duality, we could try the path of the rose petals ... soft & easy. Embrace-hold-release everything, like the breath. All thoughts, fears, desires ... embrace fully and then release completely. Moment to moment to moment. Action without anticipation. No memory imagery or familiar patterns miring us in stagnation. Yes ... also no imagined thoughts about liberation. Just be to become ... love in its multitude of beauteous hues ... joy, bliss, empathy, compassion, purity ....

***
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  #19  
Old 13-01-2020, 06:25 AM
DivyanshuChangkakoti DivyanshuChangkakoti is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 10
 
Ah non-duality, another term I can start pondering about. I'll try to implement your Embrace-release suggestion to the best of my ability.

I like NoOne's interpretation of the article compared to my nihilistic one.

My interpretation of the Sadhguru's videos and articles made me assume all sorts of morbid and gloomy things about Moksha. As a result, I became very reluctant to pursue spirituality and yoga as they would bring me closer to my fear of not existing. Ceasing to exist is one of my greatest fears.

But thanks to the wide variety of uplifting answers I got here, I have lesser resistance towards starting my spiritual journey now.
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  #20  
Old 13-01-2020, 03:15 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,794
 
Spirituality means the annihilation of the false self, ego.
One still retains their individuality, but it becomes divinized, by whatever method of yoga.

Your source either:
1) did not make the correct case clear, or
2) is clear, but they do not understand correctly, or
3) you have misunderstood their exposition of the correct model.

You need to find out which one applies, because if 1 or 2 is the case, you may need to find a more credible or articulate source.

A few things you should be assured of:
That genuine spirituality and fear are antithetical and mutually exclusive by nature.
That consciousness and existence are synonymous, inseparably one, integral, infinite and eternal. As such it is impossible to 'not exist' as there is only existence. It's just a question of in what form/status of consciousness, and how that consciousness evolves.

~ J
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