Dependent origination

[Shivani Devi]

There is another possibility, Shivani.

If there is a discrepancy between another's memory and your perception of documented events to which they disclaim any personal responsibility..

There is the slightest possibility they were in a deep trance and subconsciously channeling a different entity either at the time of utterance or upon their non recollection of said utterance.

The best way of approaching the situation, would be to ask if they were consciously aware of ever having said that? Not if they did/not say it because it is obvious that it was said, but what is not obvious, is by whom - even if you can see their lips move and record it because that means absolutely nothing...this is what possession is all about my love...and you should know this better than anyone.

This is why the Buddhists and the Advaitins say that everything is MAYA because there is nothing which can be perceived by everyone in exactly the same way...yes, the sun is green to another who sees it as such and who is anybody else to tell them it is orange? The world is full of anonymity, fake news, deepfakes, irresponsibility, post truth humanism, augmented reality...all this does is go to highlight that NOTHING is true...nothing is real...it is all MAYA...it is all an illusion.

The only real thing is Śūnyatā...Brahman...Buddha Nature...Bhairava not you, not anybody else, not what they say or do, not how they act, not conundrums, discrepancies, conflicts of interest, politics, respect, acknowledgments, delusions, mental illnesses of self or other and there are quite a few "sick puppies" on this forum - not mentioning any names or implying anything towards any one individual personally...but it is all MAYA.

There is a book I am going to recommend to you, Shivani..

The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck - by Mark Manson

However, I have told you many times you should be meditating and doing yoga instead of doing this rubbish online...but do you ever listen to me? NO! and that is why I continually mess with your head, using other people in the role of "non player characters" to do it...and you believe they are real. *laughs*

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sentient

Honestly jonesboy – you cannot find any references

Imo. Ajahn Brahm expressed this beautifully in his simile of a Mango Tree.

*

Thank you for the glossary term that was used nowhere else in the book.

Is that really the best you got?

Here is some more information.

Samadhi is the last of the eight elements of the Noble Eightfold Path.[web 1] It is often interpreted as referring to dhyana, but in the suttas samadhi and dhyana are not the same. While samadhi is one-pointed concentration, in dhyana this samadhi is used in the initial stages, to give way to a state of equanimity and mindfulness.[13][14] The practice of dhyana makes it possible to keep access to the senses in a mindful way, avoiding primary responses to the sense-impressions.

..

Alexander Wynne further explains that the dhyana-scheme is poorly understood.[24] According to Wynne, words expressing the inculcation of awareness, such as sati, sampajāno, and upekkhā, are mistranslated or understood as particular factors of meditative states,[24] whereas they refer to a particular way of perceiving the sense objects

I believe I said the exact same thing...

Religions and religious movements which use magic, such as Wicca, Neopaganism, occultism etc, often require their adherents to meditate as a preliminary to magical work. This is because magic is often thought to require a particular state of mind in order to make contact with spirits, or because one has to visualize one's goal or otherwise keep intent focused for a long period during the ritual in order to see the desired outcome.

Meditation practice in these religions usually revolves around visualization, absorbing energy from the Universe or higher self, directing one's internal energy, and inducing various trance states. Meditation and magic practice often overlap in these religions as meditation is often seen as merely a stepping stone to supernatural Power, and the meditation sessions may be peppered with various chants and spells.
New Age

Also, if you were to read.. samadhi is considered the first stage of the Jhanas..

Imo. Ajahn Brahm expressed this beautifully in his simile of a Mango Tree.

" I was looking at his face, looking at his bodily movement and it was amazing to see that there was no anger, there was no resentment, and there was not even grief there. There was a peaceful acceptance about what had happened."

Okay :)

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If there is a discrepancy between another's memory and your perception of documented events

Even worse than that in my opinion is when someone falsely interprets intent and cause when interpreting
behaviors in others. I just saw that on the news and it happens a lot in some relatives of mine as well.
Pretty much happens non-stop among the human animal unfortunately.

It leads to so many negative harmful things. Leads to conflict, judgement, anger, hate etc.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Thank you for the glossary term that was used nowhere else in the book.

Is that really the best you got?

Here is some more information.

I believe I said the exact same thing...

Also, if you were to read.. samadhi is considered the first stage of the Jhanas..

" I was looking at his face, looking at his bodily movement and it was amazing to see that there was no anger, there was no resentment, and there was not even grief there. There was a peaceful acceptance about what had happened."

Okay :)

It is all interesting stuff jonesboy & thank you for sharing your views even though they do differ from mine …

I read somewhere that mindfulness practice can take one up to the 4th jhana, but no further, the 4th being the peak of mindfulness.
Is it because at 4th jhana one can still be aware of one's (almost non-existent breath)?
(Can’t remember where it was now – video?)

However, ultimately it is one’s own practice and experience that will “spell it out” - help one to understand and sort these different jhana-samadhi-dhyana-trance “absorptions” out …..

I do not know how reliable this website is - but then again, one's own experiences will either verify the statements as valid or not:

http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/r...absorption.htm

http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/SamadhiChart.htm

*

[Phaelyn]

Before he became the Buddha, at the beginning of his spiritual quest, Siddhartha Gautama studied with two teachers. The first teacher taught him the first Seven Jhanas; the other teacher taught him the Eighth Jhana. Both teachers told him they had taught him all there was to learn. But Siddhartha still didn't know why there was suffering, so he left each of these teachers and wound up doing six years of austerity practices. These too did not provide the answer to his question and he abandoned these for what has come to be known as the Middle Way.

[BigJohn]

Jhana seems to be able to be ascertained thru hypnosis. Rapid induction could accomplish this in a very short period of time.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Jhana seems to be able to be ascertained thru hypnosis. Rapid induction could accomplish this in a very short period of time.

I think hypnosis is basically enhanced imagination.

Hypnosis, it is a trance state characterized by extreme suggestibility, relaxation and heightened imagination.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/sc.../hypnosis1.htm

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I think hypnosis is basically enhanced imagination.

No, it isn't. It is a group of techniques used to get you into trance.

Trance isn't imagination either: it is the level of focus of awareness on the consciousness continuum.

Full awareness of the physical is trance level 0%, and complete lack of awareness of the physical is trance level 100%. While awake, your awareness focuses somewhere in this range.

Every physical and psychic activity has an optimum trance level where, if performed there, the activity is done best.

[BigJohn]

What level would it be if a person, under hypnosis, begins channeling, mediumship, etc?

What level would it be if a person, under hypnosis, understands a foreign language (speaking in tongues)?

What level would it be if a person, under hypnosis, can walk across hot coals and not get burnt (fire walking)?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What level would it be if a person, under hypnosis, begins canneling, mediumship, etc?

~65% is about optimum; if much higher, the subject starts having problems remembering the experience, and needs to be directed by a facilitator

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What level would it be if a person, under hypnosis, understands a foreign language (speaking in tongues)?

~100% (if the subject ever knew that); the subject won't remember upon waking up; never tried it

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What level would it be if a person, under hypnosis, can walk across hot coals and not get burnt (fire walking)?

No trance necessary: this is related more to posthypnotic suggestions than to the trance level; never tried it