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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Hinduism

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  #151  
Old 14-02-2020, 07:32 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***

Yes ... but how may we cure our amnesia?

***

maybe if we simply quite idolizing it?
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  #152  
Old Yesterday, 08:29 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Wait...you're asking me? When I think you know the answer? Made me laugh, my friend...
Let's get jyotir here, too...and just a simple guy and many others!

I understand your question perfectly, regarding amnesia. Shall we both answer from our perspective?
Could be entertaining to many..

***

Touché

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  #153  
Old Yesterday, 09:15 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

Alright ... I’ll go first ...

Try this!

As we raise our vibration
From ego to bliss elation
Without cause
We may pause
Descending into duality
Into memory drawn ferality
Then pause again
Tranquility regain
Nonchalantly looking
Without associating
Awareness with attention shifting
Flowing feeling without resisting
And yet are unbound
As we go around
Then we extrapolate this game
Across unexplored domains
Mind body an instrument
Glued to delusional sentiment
This recognition
Manifesting bliss ignition
As a benign explosion
Renewing in continuation

Within

***
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  #154  
Old Yesterday, 03:15 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
Without associating
Great poem! I related (associated ) with everything in it said in it except this.

In my view, i.e. without 'association', without there being a relationship between 'this' and that', i.e. there can be no meaning, 'good' or 'bad' - Being would be then be completely meaningless.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/...tive-disorders

'Escape' from 'traumatic' thoughts and feelings is actually a kind of amnesia, IMO. It may be 'necessary' at certain points in one's journey to help/enable one cope 'in face of' otherwise unbearably painful or terrifying thoughts and feelings (including 'memories' which one wishes to forget) but it doesn't actually lead to 'healing' (i.e. wholesome integration, I think. In that sense, it may be a dead end.

Here is Arjuna's expressed desire (need?) for and embrace of 'amnesia' (as he 'finds' seeing aspects of THE REALITY of our BEING 'unbearable'):

"Arjuna said: My Lord! Thy words concerning the Supreme Secret of Self, given for my blessing, have dispelled the illusions which surrounded me.

O Lord, whose eyes are like the lotus petal! Thou hast described in detail the origin and the dissolution of being, and Thine own Eternal Majesty.

I believe all as Thou hast declared it. I long now to have a vision of thy Divine Form, O Thou Most High!

If Thou thinkest that it can be made possible for me to see it, show me, O Lord of Lords, Thine own Eternal Self.

Lord Shri Krishna replied: Behold, O Arjuna! My celestial forms, by hundred and thousands, various in kind, in colour and in shape.

Behold thou the Powers of Nature: fire, earth, wind and sky; the sun, the heavens, the moon, the stars; all forces of vitality and of healing; and the roving winds. See the myriad wonders revealed to none but thee.

Here in Me living as one, O Arjuna, behold the whole universe, movable and immovable, and anything else that thou wouldst see!

Yet since with mortal eyes thou canst not see Me, lo! I give thee the Divine Sight. See now the glory of My Sovereignty.”

Sanjaya continued: “Having thus spoken, O King, the Lord Shri Krishna, the Almighty Prince of Wisdom, showed to Arjuna the Supreme Form of the Great God. There were countless eyes and mouths, and mystic forms innumerable, with shining ornaments and flaming celestial weapons. Crowned with heavenly garlands, clothed in shining garments, anointed with divine unctions, He showed Himself as the Resplendent One, Marvellous, Boundless, Omnipresent. Could a thousand suns blaze forth together it would be but a faint reflection of the radiance of the Lord God. In that vision Arjuna saw the universe, with its manifold shapes, all embraced in One, its Supreme Lord. Thereupon Arjuna, dumb with awe, his hair on end, his head bowed, his hands clasped in salutation, addressed the Lord thus:

Arjuna said: O almighty God! I see in Thee the powers of Nature, the various creatures of the world, the Progenitor on his lotus throne, the Sages and the shining angels.

I see Thee, infinite in form, with, as it were, faces, eyes and limbs everywhere; no beginning, no middle, no end; O Thou Lord of the Universe, Whose Form is universal!

I see thee with the crown, the sceptre and the discus; a blaze of splendour. Scarce can I gaze on thee, so radiant thou art, glowing like the blazing fire, brilliant as the sun, immeasurable.

Imperishable art Thou, the Sole One worthy to be known, the priceless Treasure-house of the universe, the immortal Guardian of the Life Eternal, the Spirit Everlasting.

Without beginning, without middle and without end, infinite in power, Thine arms all-embracing, the sun and moon Thine eyes, Thy face beaming with the fire of sacrifice, flooding the whole universe with light.

Alone thou fillest all the quarters of the sky, earth and heaven, and the regions between. O Almighty Lord! Seeing Thy marvellous and awe-inspiring Form, the spheres tremble with fear.

The troops of celestial beings enter into Thee, some invoking Thee in fear, with folded palms; the Great Seers and Adepts sing hymns to Thy Glory, saying `All Hail.’

The Vital Forces, the Major stars, Fire, Earth, Air, Sky, Sun, Heaven, Moon and Planets; the Angels, the Guardians of the Universe, the divine Healers, the Winds, the Fathers, the Heavenly Singers; and hosts of Mammon-worshippers, demons as well as saints, are amazed.

Seeing Thy stupendous Form, O Most Mighty, with its myriad faces, its innumerable eyes and limbs and terrible jaws, I myself and all the worlds are overwhelmed with awe.

When I see Thee, touching the Heavens, glowing with colour, with open mouth and wide open fiery eyes, I am terrified. O My Lord! My courage and peace of mind desert me.

When I see Thy mouths with their fearful jaws like glowing fires at the dissolution of creation, I lose all sense of place; I find no rest. Be merciful, O Lord in whom this universe abides!

All these sons of Dhritarashtra, with the hosts of princes, Bheeshma, Drona and Karna, as well as the other warrior chiefs belonging to our side;
I see them all rushing headlong into Thy mouths, with terrible tusks, horrible to behold. Some are mangled between thy jaws, with their heads crushed to atoms.

As rivers in flood surge furiously to the ocean, so these heroes, the greatest among men, fling themselves into Thy flaming mouths.

As moths fly impetuously to the flame only to be killed, so these men rush into Thy mouths to court their own destruction.

Thou seemest to swallow up the worlds, to lap them in flame. Thy glory fills the universe. Thy fierce rays beat down upon it irresistibly.

Tell me then who Thou art, that wearest this dreadful Form? I bow before Thee, O Mighty One! Have mercy, I pray, and let me see Thee as Thou wert at first.
[Brings the understandable dynamics of Stockholm Syndrome, in which 'captives' identify with and love their 'captors' to my mind!] I do not know what Thou intendest.

Lord Shri Krishna replied: I have shown myself to thee as the Destroyer who lays waste the world and whose purpose is destruction. In spite of thy efforts, all these warriors gathered for battle shall not escape death."
"

The above quote is from Chapter 11, entitled The Cosmic Vision. It is just a few paragraphs after this that "O Thou Supremest Self, greater than the Powers of creation, the First Cause, Infinite, the Lord of Lords, the Home of the universe, Imperishable, Being and Not-Being, yet transcending both. Thou art the Primal God, the Ancient, the Supreme Abode of this universe, the Knower, the Knowledge and the Final Home. Thou fillest everything. Thy form is infinite.", the passage which started this talk about 'amnesia' (which Miss H quoted), occurs.
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  #155  
Old Yesterday, 09:57 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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नाहं प्रकाश: सर्वस्य योगमायासमावृत: |
मूढोऽयं नाभिजानाति लोको मामजमव्ययम् || 25||

nāhaṁ prakāśhaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛitaḥ
mūḍho ’yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency [yoga-maya]; and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible.

Bhagavad Gita 7:25
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  #156  
Old Yesterday, 10:49 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency [yoga-maya]; and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible. Bhagavad Gita 7:25
Interesting how this passage can be 'spun'! Caveat Emptor.

In the translation by Shri Purohit Swami, this same verse reads: "I am not visible to all, for I am enveloped by the illusion of Phenomenon. This deluded world does not know Me as the Unborn and the Imperishable." As this translation of the Gita also says: "As a man can drink water from any side of a full tank, so the skilled theologian can wrest from any scripture that which will serve his (or her) purpose."
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  #157  
Old Yesterday, 11:17 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Interesting how this passage can be 'spun'! Caveat Emptor.

In the translation by Shri Purohit Swami, this same verse reads: "I am not visible to all, for I am enveloped by the illusion of Phenomenon. This deluded world does not know Me as the Unborn and the Imperishable." As this translation of the Gita also says: "As a man can drink water from any side of a full tank, so the skilled theologian can wrest from any scripture that which will serve his (or her) purpose."
Indeed.

My translation comes from the ISKCON version of "Bhagavad Gita as it IS" by Srila Prabhupada:

Source of translation:
https://asitis.com/7/25.html

Mankind will spin Krishna's words and translate or mistranslate the Bhagavad Gita into whatever serves their personal agenda for doing so...giving credit to any scholar more leaned than the last in such regards.

Thus the text can be spun either way...in the way YOU choose to understand it, or in the way that I choose to understand it...and neither would actually be representative of what Sri Krishna said or even meant to say in regards..

The funny thing?

This exact shloka from the Bhagavad Gita represents all of that in a nutshell anyway...for there is no "spin" unless there is a force of momentum in the first place who is "spinning" it ...and that would be Sri Krishna, Himself and neither of us.
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  #158  
Old Today, 04:56 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Amnesia as put forth in this discussion refers to our conditional forgetting e.g., ignorance of our original birthless and deathless eternal inseparable Identity with, as, of, and by Spirit, God, Supreme Being as represented by Krishna in the Gita.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with a personality/ego reaction or “trauma” supposedly precipitated by Krishna’s revelation of the Divine Form that supposedly made Arjuna want to suppress the incident. That would evade the greater and true meaning by an utterly faulty superficial intellectual pop-psychology rationale that is (Stockholme syndrome?!?!) as ridiculous as it is facile.

Arjuna already had this amnesia - as do we all unavoidably as incarnated beings in the apparent division of Cosmic physical existence - not aware of - e.g., “forgetting” the true Identity / our Identity / Krishna’s Identity as God.

Krishna even says, “I know/remember all my incarnations (identity) - you do not” to Arjuna, who until the colloquy and revelation prior to the battle of Kurkshetra, saw Krishna simply as his uncle.

So the revelation if anything, is possibly the most unprecedented wake-up call ever, to Arjuna who metaphorically represents humanity and especially the World disciple - - the necessity of which is to both recognize without (form), and aspire within (essence) to the divine. Because both are the true essential identity of ALL, in Being and becoming.

He’s awakened, awestruck, and asks for instruction to go forward. It’s an occurrence of momentous import both timeless (as represented by the Gita in general) and timely (as represented by this particular incident) - not a reason to go back into a sleep of forgetfulness!


~ J
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  #159  
Old Today, 04:58 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency [yoga-maya]; and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible.
Quote:
"I am not visible to all, for I am enveloped by the illusion of Phenomenon. This deluded world does not know Me as the Unborn and the Imperishable."



As both of these say essentially the same thing there is really no controversy here, unless a self-styled “skilled theologian” needs to create one.


~ J
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  #160  
Old Today, 04:59 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
This exact shloka from the Bhagavad Gita represents all of that in a nutshell anyway...for there is no "spin" unless there is a force of momentum in the first place who is "spinning" it ...and that would be Sri Krishna, Himself and neither of us.
Quite right.
And Krishna said as much …
“If I stopped “spinning” the entire universe would cease to exist”


~J
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