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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Astral Projection > Near Death Experiences (NDEs)

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  #21  
Old 25-09-2015, 10:45 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howla Dark
I had two NDE's none of them had a light or religious icons.

And?

Some have had dark, and terrifying experiences. So?
I thought the point of the thread was about what modern physics is confirming today since Einstein. That, the material/organic world in time and space, in which we find ourselves and percieve, is the, "Grand Illusion", compared to... the greater reality and Truth existant.

Sky, if you look... you see that a very common statement is that the Experiencer finds themselves in a situation that is more "real" and vivid than they've ever been in this world.
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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  #22  
Old 26-09-2015, 12:37 AM
skygazer skygazer is offline
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i know this, Morpheus...but I am aiming for realer than that.
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...nature does not know how to lie. It is such a simple observation, that there are no straight lines in Nature.
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  #23  
Old 26-09-2015, 02:34 PM
wolfgaze wolfgaze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral Explorer
The truth is even lower-level dark-beings are capable of taking the form and energetic signature of any being they desire and most people if not all would never know the difference. So if dark-beings are capable of doing such things then obviously the masters of this system could take that beyond our comprehension. They are ruthless and will use anything at their disposal to keep you feeding them. From promises and offers of "light", love, warmth, comfort, ecstasy, power, privilege, "Heaven", etc. to threats and guilt-trips of a dark cold Hell, bad karma, the list goes on. They use both the good and bad experiences to their advantage. Under my belief the "light-realms" have been created to give you a longing for them, to feel "like home", to make every fiber of your being want to be there. And the dark-realms they use to make you feel like you have to escape there and anything but there is better. And they seem to use whatever they feel will work best on each individual because they know each of us better than we know ourselves - at least in this life. They know our past-lives, they know everything about our past that we do not in this life. If they feel the carrot on the stick isn't good enough then they scare the heck out of you with dark experiences to make you feel like anything is better than that, that way you accept the light because you just don't want to go back to that darkness. But for others a positive "light" experience is enough to sell them on the idea of Heaven and make them accept it with open-arms (and no questions). In my own experience the millisecond you question any of this it gets ugly, even in the light-realms. I can only imagine what would happen if you start asking outside of the box questions during your "life review" or whatever other brainwashing movie they want you to watch. I'm sure it would instantly turn into threats and/or some sort of sadistic punishment. The problem is nobody ever does because who's going to question "God" or an "Angel" or whatever other god-like figure we have been programmed into worshipping and honoring since childhood.

Okay, so you've painted the following picture:

That your 'afterlife experience' is controlled by lower level dark beings who know everything about you, who can fake any form or energy signature to deceive and manipulate you, and who can create any types of environment/experience for you in the astral realm(s) that they wish to...

You've essentially assigned god-like powers to these lower-level dark beings. They're all knowing, they can shapeshift, give off energy signatures that are not true to their actual nature nor rooted in real emotion, and they can fabricate whatever 'realities' they wish to create for you...

I'll entertain this theory temporarily...

My laundry list of questions that follow:

-How can you possibly expect to have any ability to accurately discern anything about your environment and your experiences given the parameters that you have proposed? If you were to ever find yourself in some environment that you actually find pleasurable/enjoyable/rewarding - well then according to your theory, that was just manufactured by these 'dark beings' to deceive you. If you were to ever find yourself interacting with a beautiful/benevolent being that radiates love/kindness/compassion towards you - well then according to your theory, that is just one of the 'dark beings' taking on a deceptive form and creating fake energy signatures to fool and trick you. How can you possibly discern anything about your existence in this state when operating with this belief that everything you sense (from your environments to the appearance and emotional energy of others beings) is potentially the work of 'dark beings' whose intention is to trick/deveive/fool/trap/ensnare you? How can you judge anything if you cannot trust what you perceive nor the emotional energy that you sense/experience from environments and other beings? (In my opinion, you've created a situation/circumstance where your judgement/discernment is essentially rendered useless)

- Would it be possible for you to encounter another soul/spirit like you while in this 'afterlife realm'? If so, would you be capable of expressing your true form and expressing genuine/sincere emotional energy towards this fellow soul/spirit? If that's the case, then what if this other soul/spirit operated with the same perspective and understanding as you? Now you would just be another likely fabricated fake form by the dark beings giving off fake energy signatures designed to deceive/trick this innocent soul/spirit. Nothing you do/say/express/feel could be trusted, taken at face value, nor relied upon. You could try to plead your case and insist that you are not part of the deception - but that could just be more manipulation, right? So here you are, a non-dark being, expresing your true form, and acting in accordance with your real nature - yet this fellow soul/spirit would have to dismiss you entirely because there is no ability to discern your true nature given the god-like powers of these dark beings and their ability to deceive/manipulate/trick/fool other beings. So given this theory, you cannot trust anyone/anything, and all others who operate with this same perspective should not and cannot trust you. Seems like a rather superficial and pointless way of existing, does it not?

- You suggested these were 'lower-level' dark beings in charge and in control. Does that mean there are even higher-level dark beings with even greater god-like powers to deceive, fool, trick, manipulate, and trap you? Would these higher-level dark beings be controlling the low-level dark beings against their will, or working on the same team? If there are 'dark' beings, then this implies there are also beings of an opposing nature, yes? So where are all the high level light/benevolent beings with the god-like powers in this picture? Why are they unable to intervene and influence you in the same manner as these dark beings? Also, what kind of existence is this where adopting a malevolent nature and seeking to manipulate/control others is rewarded with extraordinary powers and abilities like the ones you assign to these dark beings? If one intentionally acts evil/bad/negative/malevolent for long enough, can one expect to eventually gain control over other beings, shapeshift, give off fake energy, and create/manufacture astral realities at will? Where is there any sense of justice and reaping what you sow in this type of existence? When are there consequences for destructive behavior?

-If you perceive you are trapped against your will in some kind of fabricated/manufactured 'reality' being run by much more powerful 'dark beings' who control all aspects of your environment - how will you ever escape and how would you ever truly know that you're no longer trapped? Whatever you experience could just be another illusion created by these beings to fool/trick you into believing you've escaped, right? Or what if just beyond this deceptive operation being run by nefarious beings, there is just another even more advanced and elaborate one? And then one beyond that, like a fractal design? When would and when should this way of perceiving your 'reality' come to an end in terms of what you are experiencing?

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As you've discerned by now, I do not subscribe to this theory/perspective whatsoever. But if I were to seriously consider adopting it, I would need plausible and substantial answers to the types of questions I posed above. In my honest opinion, this theory does not bear good fruit. It influences an individual to embrace feeling trapped, imprisoned, disempowered, helpless, hopeless - which weakens one's spirit, does not contribute to one's well-being, and does not yield increased awareness/discernment...

"It is not external things, but our thoughts about them, that bind us or set us free. We forge our own chains, build our own dungeons, take ourselves prisoners; or we loose our bonds, build our own palaces, or roam in freedom through all scenes and events. If I think that my surroundings are powerful to bind me, that thought will keep me bound. If I think that, in my thought and life, I can rise above my surroundings, that thought will liberate me. One should ask of his thoughts, “Are they leading to bondage or deliverance?” and he should abandon thoughts that bind, and adopt thoughts that set free." ~ James Allen
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  #24  
Old 05-10-2015, 08:24 AM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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In fact, what is borne out in all of the information available to us, is that the Wachowski's perception and illustration is true.
Which is also what has been shared with us in the various spiritual writings and teachings through the ages of time.

Not to mention what the revelations of Physics has borne out since Einstein, and before, concerning this, " world ".

Re: " The Matrix".
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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  #25  
Old 22-12-2015, 10:51 PM
Privater Privater is offline
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On the Eternal side.

I am new to Spiritual Forums. It seems to me that we are not going to prove much here so Scientific is so many angels on the point of a pin. How ever that does mean we can not speculate. Some times the speculation will ring a bell. The things we feel while experiencing a lucid dream may be the key we are looking for!
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  #26  
Old 22-12-2015, 10:58 PM
Rokon Rokon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer
So many of us have come to the conclusion that the world is a hologram and that it is our senses that limit what we see, often, this is misconstrued as ‘nothing is real’

To those people I would ask "what would make it more real for you?"
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2016, 02:23 AM
IdaDown IdaDown is offline
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Excellent (!) post wolfgaze...I'm a little late to this thread though.

Do you have any suggestions as to how to discern what is good from what is evil masquerading as light? When people are truly deceived by "dark forces" is it possible they discounted red flags in their interactions and let themselves be duped because they so badly wanted to believe?

Ever since my religious days of old when it was said that the devil could dress as an "angel of light", I've feared trusting any experience I've had from the "unseen" world because I'm so worried about being tricked. The hypothetical world you described is one I've been living in for years, unable to truly trust anything because of what if...?

How is one able to discern? If it's possible to be deceived by a dark force there must be something that sticks out, some sign or inner knowing that what one is interacting with is illegitimate. I'm thinking though that in this world of the living, how many of us have truly trusted someone only to later find out they weren't what they seemed, floored when we found out who they really were?

How can we know for sure what we're dealing with?
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