Love me you will

[Kerubiel]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I very appreciate your out-in-the-open self-examine-ingness K, as well as the integrity of your quest.

Here is a quote [copied from http://www.tekgnostics.com/JUAN.HTM] from Carlos Castaneda, about four 'enemies' met on The Path of Knowledge, which I think pertains to us all. I thought what he says about the third enemy, 'power', might be of special interest to you (at this point):

"When a man starts to learn, he is never clear about his objectives. His purpose is faulty; his intent is vague. He hopes for rewards that will never materialize, for he knows nothing of the hardships of learning. "He slowly begins to learn... bit by bit at first, then in big chunks. And his thoughts soon clash. What he learns is never what he pictured, or imagined, and so he begins to be afraid. Learning is never what one expects. Every step of learning is a new task, and the fear the man is experiencing begins to mount mercilessly, unyieldingly. His purpose becomes a battlefield.

"And thus he has tumbled upon the first of his natural enemies: Fear!

A terrible enemy... treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling... waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest."
"What will happen to the man if he runs away in fear?"
"Nothing happens to him except that he will never learn. He will never become a man of knowledge. He will perhaps be a bully or a harmless, scared man; at any rate, he will be a defeated man. His first enemy will have put an end to his cravings."
"And what can he do to overcome fear?"
"The answer is very simple. He must not run away. He must defy his fear, and in spite of it he must take the next step in learning, and the next, and the next. He must be fully afraid, and yet he must not stop. That is the rule! And a moment will come when his first enemy retreats. The man begins to feel sure of himself. His intent becomes stronger. Learning is no longer a terrifying task. "When this joyful moment comes, the man can say without hesitation that he has defeated his first natural enemy."

"Does it happen at once, don Juan, or little by little?"
"It happens little by little, and yet the fear is vanquished suddenly and fast."
"But won’t the man be afraid again if something new happens to him?"
"No. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity... a clarity of mind which erases fear. By then a man knows his desires; he knows how to satisfy those desires. He can anticipate the new steps of learning, and a sharp clarity surrounds everything. The man feels that nothing is concealed.

"And thus he has encountered his second enemy: Clarity!

That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. "It forces the man never to doubt himself. It gives him the assurance he can do anything he pleases, for he sees clearly into everything. And he is courageous because he is clear, and he stops at nothing because he is clear. But all that is a mistake; it is like something incomplete. If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will fumble with learning. He will rush when he should be patient, or he will be patient when he should rush. And he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learning anything more."


"What becomes of a man who is defeated in that way, don Juan? Does he die as a result?"
"No, he doesn’t die. His second enemy has just stopped him cold from trying to become a man of knowledge; instead, the man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown. Yet the clarity for which he has paid so dearly will never change to darkness and fear again. He will be clear as long as he lives, but he will no longer learn, or yearn for, anything."

"But what does he have to do to avoid being defeated?"
"He must do what he did with fear: he must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes. And thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him any more. This will not be a mistake. It will not be only a point before his eyes. It will be true power. "He will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. He can do with it whatever he pleases. His ally is at his command. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him.

But he has also come across his third enemy: Power!

"Power is the strongest of all enemies. And naturally the easiest thing to do is to give in; after all, the man is truly invincible. He commands; he begins by taking calculated risks, and ends in making rules, because he is a master. "A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man."

"Will he lose his power?"
"No, he will never lose his clarity or his power."
"What then will distinguish him from a man of knowledge?"
"A man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. Power is only a burden upon his fate. Such a man has no command over himself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power."
"Is the defeat by any of these enemies a final defeat?"
"Of course it is final. Once one of these enemies overpowers a man there is nothing he can do."
"Is it possible, for instance, that the man who is defeated by power may see his error and mend his ways?"
"No. Once a man gives in he is through."

"But what if he is temporarily blinded by power, and then refuses it?"
"That means his battle is still on. That means he is still trying to become a man of knowledge. A man is defeated only when he no longer tries, and abandons himself."
"But then, don Juan, it is possible that a man may abandon himself to fear for years, but finally conquer it?"
"No, that is not true. If he gives in to fear he will never conquer it, because he will shy away from learning and never try again. But if he tries to learn for years in the midst of his fear, he will eventually conquer it because he will never have really abandoned himself to it."

"How can he defeat his third enemy, don Juan?"
"He has to defy it, deliberately. He has to come to realize the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He must keep himself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully all that he has learned. If he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his third enemy.

"The man will be, by then, at the end of his journey of learning... and almost without warning he will come upon the last of his enemies: Old age!

This enemy is the cruelest of all, the one he won’t be able to defeat completely, but only fight away. "This is the time when a man has no more fears, no more impatient clarity of mind... a time when all his power is in check, but also the time when he has an unyielding desire to rest. If he gives in totally to his desire to lie down and forget, if he soothes himself in tiredness, he will have lost his last round, and his enemy will cut him down into a feeble old creature. His desire to retreat will overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge.

"But if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate through, he can then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough."

Interesting to read that again, I will take it as a sign on the path. I been following Castaneda and don Juan for over 15 years now. Quite a path indeed. Thanks for the quote and kind words.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Kerubiel

Interesting to read that again, I will take it as a sign on the path. I been following Castaneda and don Juan for over 15 years now. Quite a path indeed. Thanks for the quote and kind words.

Hello, fellow human -

You characterized one of my previous responses as being 'mean' to you. Please know that it is not my intention to be either 'mean' or 'kind' to you or anyone else. I merely speak what I think and feel is the truth, hence my truth, with the intention of stimulating and adding to the momentum of happenings which strike me as probably being LIFE augmenting/enriching/etc., as well as (sometimes, when it strikes me as being 'called' for) opposing if not stopping the momentum of happenings which strike me as probably being LIFE abusing and degrading - in this case, the 'tools' available for this purpose being 'words' and 'emoticons'. Nothing personal intended, just 'me' doing said 'business'. (I project 'LIFE' to be the ongoing expression and experience of LOVE and JOY, BTW.)

As in golf, the 'ball' doesn't always go where I wish/aim it to go. Am delighted to hear/see that this time it was 'a hole in one' (kind of!).

I am seriously playful, most of the time at least, as are you I think. My favorite game, which I played with fellow boarders for hours at a time on weekends, when I was a kid in boarding was Kick the Can. Check out what's at the link. It may give you a better idea of what I am about - in this life-form, that is, wherein I am known as David.

love be exhaust release.

people love because people
can and because people want.

our justice be good. our love
be good. that's to be remembered.

our justice and love are be
equals.

"both wingspan opposite"

don't say your love be weak.
don't say your justice be ha
ttrredd

"both are be fix, same"

m. m. why are you laughing

[Dargor]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, but to be honest I think the commanding part you mentioned is utter nonsense. Women either like you or they simply don't for whatever reason, and there's no such thing as jedi mind tricks.

Do-not fall short that because others would might maybe say that's how it is.

yup --------------------

m. m. wheredup be well fed

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, but to be honest I think the commanding part you mentioned is utter nonsense. Women either like you or they simply don't for whatever reason, and there's no such thing as jedi mind tricks.

Nonsense to one is sense to another. 'Commanding' was not referenced in the simple, "teach a dog to sit" sense. Charles Manson's 'effect' on (certain) women would be difficult to explain other than by way of "mind tricks", methinks.

[7luminaries]

Very nice & thanks for bumping this...

Old Don Juan was rather brilliant

Peace & blessings
7L

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Nonsense to one is sense to another.

True to an extent, but not in the case when one tries to argue against or deny that which is objective.

'Commanding' was not referenced in the simple, "teach a dog to sit" sense. Charles Manson's 'effect' on (certain) women would be difficult to explain other than by way of "mind tricks", methinks.

I simply call that manipulation... If you ask me that's a more practical way of explaining it rather than magic jedi mind tricks or stuff like that.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

I simply call that manipulation... If you ask me that's a more practical way of explaining it rather than magic jedi mind tricks or stuff like that.

Call it whatever you wish - the phenomenon is what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_hypnosis

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Call it whatever you wish - the phenomenon is what it is.

Here's a 'revealing' (video) demonstration of disarming hypnosis - in this case, with no 'words' used at all!:

https://www.facebook.com/10002328525...5635197889321/

It shows how easily a more power-full mind-n-spirit (or 'intent') can influence, i.e. in-fluence, a less power-full mind-n-spirit (or 'intent').

Such in-fluence may be ethical/benevolent, as in the case of many (not all!) parents, teachers and healers, or unethical/co-optive as in the case of many (not all!) politicians and religious leaders, seductresses and con-artists.