people who suffer this life tine around.

If the pain I've experienced in this life is any indication I must have been Jack The Ripper in a previous life. There's just no other explanation if you believe in Karma and all that. This life it has me so tired I just want to put it down and rest and I'm not even much past half the way through it. Nothing has come easy in this life and nothing has turned out the way I wanted it to. I finally just stopped worrying about it and let it go. Maybe that's what I was meant to do, who knows? I still feel tired, have tons of pain, but at least I'm mentally at ease for once in my life.

I don't believe we choose everything in our lives though. I would have never chosen this life or the family I have. No way, I am 100% convinced of that. I am New Age oriented sometimes but I definitely don't follow all the new thought type stuff. I refuse to believe I created the chronic illness I am now suffering from. (I have a rather complex autoimmune condition.) That idea that you can create your own illness and can be cured by right thinking it annoys the heck out of me, it really does.

I had a well meaning pal once tell me that I could think my way out of it during a particularly bad spell and I swear pacifist that I am I just wanted to slap her silly. She would sit there and tell me about every little thing that was going wrong with her, all her various illnesses and allergies, and we would always have to totally accommodate that but if I mentioned not feeling well because of my very real illness she would be all positive thinking and denial of the situation as a cure. It was so darned hypocritical of her that it used to make me crazy just being around her. If there is one thing I have learned about this illness it's that NO, I didn't ask for it and NO I can't just make it go away by thinking positive thoughts. Yes, having a positive attitude helps, but it's not going to suddenly heal me and make me normal again...

I'm a very spiritual person but I also am pretty firmly grounded in reality. I accept the paranormal exists but only up and to a point. I'm a very skeptical believer. I question EVERYTHING before I will believe....

[Blue Tiger]

Originally Posted by angelabaker

lol. I get it my friend. It's been a rocky road for me. But I don't feel sorry for myself. I'm actually proud that I made it and I'm still alive:):):) thank you:):)

I think this is precisely the point of choosing a difficult or painful life - to overcome and grow beyond it.

If you'd chosen an easy life, you would not feel the pride of accomplishment that you do now. You came, you saw, you conquered!

I don't buy the karma stuff. Being good in one life doesn't guarantee you a plush life the next time you incarnate... because you may well choose more difficult situations to overcome!

Being bad in this life doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a horrible life the next time. Perhaps you'll choose a very simple life, so that you can learn basic skills.... rather like going back to kindergarten, because you flubbed first grade so badly.

Maybe some souls DO choose to atone for their actions in their next lifetime. The key there would be "choose." We all grow and learn at our own pace, learning lessons that we're ready for.

I've had a long hard journey myself. It's been lonely and painful. But I am really proud of where I am now, pleased with how much I've learned and grown. And I'm actually thankful for some of the lousy situations I found myself in. Those were the situations that I learned the most from.

[birds]

I once heard that people that have it bad here on Earth will be more rewarded in Heaven. It could be that those would just more appreciate it.

Originally Posted by angelabaker

I have a question. <snip> I spoke with a psychic and she told me that WE are the ones that choose to come down here and suffer in pain. She said that when we do bad things in our past lives, that we feel as though we have to be reincarnated and pay for the bad things we have done in our past lives. So I wanted to know if this is true.

This is an unskillful explanation. The statement is fundamentally flawed and cannot be judged as true or false as it stands. Her statement to you makes exactly as much sense as, "When I put a radiator on my Big Wheel, it worked perfectly." The implication causes you to assume that it is true, that it was addressing a radiator problem that fixed the Big Wheel. But you and I know that is not true - unless they've recently come out with a super-deluxe Big Wheel recently.

So her statement to you was both true and false and neither true nor false.

Here is an excerpt out of a story that explains this a bit. It's not perfect but it'll save these old hands a bit of typing. :)

“Are you talking about reincarnation?” I asked, just for confirmation. *I still hadn't wanted to interrupt her but I know how quickly I can get lost when I start entering uncharted territory. *
Anadia looked confused, “I do not know; what is reincarnation?” she asked.
It was not a question that I expected her, of all people, to ask. *Adding to that, she just said that she remembered her previous lives. *I decided that perhaps her word for it was just different. *“Well, I'm no expert,” I said, “but reincarnation is basically the idea that when I die, I will come back and start life again as someone else.” *
She looked at me as if she was still confused which was kind of strange because I thought I did pretty good with my definition. *If she was not talking about reincarnation then I was more lost than I thought. *“Josh,” she began, seeming to choose her words carefully, “when you say, 'when I die, I will come back', who is the 'I' that you speak of?”
“Well, me,” I said, more confused than ever now, “Josh.”
She frowned, which was never a good sign. *“Do you believe in this reincarnation, then?”
“Honestly,” I said, “I don't know. *It's not the most popular of theories about what happens after we die – at least where I am from. *Some parts of my world believe in it strongly, I guess. *I haven't given it much thought to be candid.”
Anadia nodded thoughtfully, “Reincarnation sounds lovely; I almost wish it were true,” she said. *“To answer your question then; no, I was not speaking of reincarnation. *Rather, I was speaking of rebirth.”
“Well,” I thought, “it appears it's my turn for a vocabulary lesson.” *“I don't know that word,” I said. “It sounds like it would be the same thing. *What does it mean?”
Anadia considered for a minute and then said, “Beyond the illusion that we are separate from each other, we are the same. *You are playing the part of Josh, and you are doing a very fine job of it, too. *In fact, you have gotten so into your character that you have lost yourself and are only now beginning to remember your true nature which is...?”
She left the question hang there for me to answer, “...consciousness,” I replied. *
“It is consciousness that is reborn,” Anadia said, “not Josh. *Once Josh is gone, he is gone forever and, if one is intent on living in illusion, that would be a very great loss indeed,” she said, flashing me a smile. *“Rebirth is the coming again of your true-nature; while reincarnation would be the coming again of your ego-nature. *Do you understand?”

So, as the exchange between Josh and the lovely Anadia showed, there is no 'you' left to be reincarnated.

Originally Posted by angelabaker

I have a question. I have had a terrible life this time around. I always wanted to know why would heavenly father put me on this earth to suffer so much pain. Being abused, raped, being talked down too, people stealing and lying to me, and the most painful thing is being judged all my life.

Consider Ms. Angela Baker is a character that you are playing - as Anadia suggested above. Now let's return to our story...

“The ‘I’ is not nothing, the ‘I’ is a character. *For instance, think of an actor playing a part. *The actor will never turn into the character. *The character is simply a vessel that the actor plays. *The character ends when the movie ends, it has no permanent existence – it is born of imagination and when the show is over, the character ceases to be. *Well, unless you count the cast of Star Trek at a comic con,” he added. *It must have been pretty funny because he was having a good laugh over it, but I was lost. *
“Daniel,” I asked when he recovered a bit, “can you say that a different way?”
“Take the actor Tobey McGuire, for instance,” Daniel said, trying again, “He played a character named Red in the movie Seabiscuit. *Years later, he played Peter Parker in the movie Spiderman. *Now, do you think he thought of himself as Tobey McGuire playing Peter Parker or as Red playing Peter Parker?”
“He thought of himself as Tobey McGuire,” I said, “assuming he doesn't have brain damage.”
“Right,” said Daniel, “His true self, from the perspective of acting, is Tobey. *It doesn't matter how long filming takes or how long he stays in character, he's not going to forget that. *In fact, it doesn't matter how many movies he makes or how many parts he plays, it is always Tobey who is doing the acting.”
“Okay,” I said, “I get that - I think, what does that have to do with who I am?”
“Consciousness is what gives you awareness, Josh. *Consciousness is awareness. *It is the divine spark inside us. *It is your true nature. *Our character's ego tells us that we are really the character and our mind believes it. **This is delusion. *Our ego is the great deceiver.”
“Okay,” I said slowly, trying to follow all of this, “So if this divine spark is me; if my true nature is consciousness, then what is your true nature?”
“Same as yours,” said Daniel. *“All sentient beings have the divine spark of consciousness.”
“Does consciousness have a personality?” I asked.
“Perhaps, but not individually, no.”
My head was swimming, “You're making my brain bleed, Daniel.”
“Well,” he said, with a grin in my direction, “at least it's nothing important.”

You are your true nature not your ego-nature.

People are nuts - the good stuff is on the inside. Until people break, you only have a superficial shell. Break the shell and find the heart. One reason folks return to difficult lives is to do just that. People who live happy contented lives their whole lives, don't go looking for a spiritual solution.

You have more motivation than most - perhaps even most of us here to realize your true nature and drop the belief that you are who you think you are. You've got a shot.

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by kkfern

so what good is getting the pain of the alleged karma if you cannot make the connection. the understanding is not there. incarnation makes more sense.
the pain may still be there but the understanding is there to turn it into reason to improve.

kk

Maybe though one doesn't need to know the connection for the karma to help bring learning to the person now doing the suffering. I'll give an example of this.

Say someone is homophobic and goes around mocking and emotionally hurting or even bashing gays. Karma may have that person being gay themselves in their next life. Though this person doesn't know why they are gay in the next life, this will help that person to understand this group of people better and hence not be so bad towards them in future. Instead of abusing gays, the person may grow to love them.

Sometimes we need to be put into the others shoes so we can learn to love more or to feel more oneness.

Karma isn't about punishment, its about learning.

[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by angelabaker

You are right. I want to find out about my past lives,cause then I can have a better understanding:):):)

Information like that only usually comes when its time for a person to know. It can be devastating to have some of that info before a person is really ready to have it.

I know someone who was emotionally destroyed by knowing one of his past lives (in his case he had been a commander of a army and made a bad decision in battle and all his men were killed. He ended up guilt laden and extremely depressed (I think he was suidicial over it for some time).

The knowledge one has done certain things.. has hit some very hard. There is a well known past life regressionist who was in the field for over 30 years who doesn't do it no more. One of her clients couldn't handle a past life which was brought up and ended up crazy.

My current life has been anything but easy, but more than once in my life when I felt it couldn't get any worse I came to see that someone else had it worse and that made me rethink my own situation a lot. "Suffering" can be relative and as bad as mine has been, it's nothing compared to what some people go through.

Some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouth's it's true, but often those same people endure the worst tragedies. Suffering comes to us all sooner or later. It's how we deal with it that defines us I think. I don't believe we choose to suffer. I think these lessons in how to endure are given to us, for what reason I don't know, but I definitely don't believe we choose to suffer. It just makes no logical sense to me.

Hello Ravenspirit. Within your own words are the answer.

I definitely don't believe we choose to suffer. It just makes no logical sense to me.

Yet, you say:

Suffering comes to us all sooner or later.

Suffering is part of life. In fact; it is the first noble truth in Buddhism. If suffering comes to us all, then perhaps we are not choosing to suffer - we are choosing to live. Life has suffering in it. Unless...as you so wisely pointed out:

It's how we deal with it that defines us I think.

The greater the suffering, the more motivation there is to escape that suffering. Since escaping from suffering is the goal, perhaps those who are given the most suffering are the closest to escaping it because of the increased motivation.

Perhaps you might find it more logical to think that you chose a life that would give you the best chance of escaping from illusion.

Life and suffering all being illusion, eh, very Buddhist. I don't believe life is an illusion or that suffering is and while I don't like it I can't say that escaping suffering is a particular motive for me. I just accept what is and deal with it. If there is no suffering going on well, yay! If no, okay, then we cope, however possible. Life just IS.

I don't think any of it is illusion, this life, or the afterlife, or the next it just is what it is. I believe my purpose in being here is simply to BE, to experience this life as it unfolds regardless of what might happen in it. Suffering and joy they're just two sides of the same coin. This life has been really hard in some ways. If there is one thing I have finally learned it's just to BE.

I spent a good part of my youth feeling like I was stuck in a maze or on a wheel forever trying to get out, off, make it, whatever. It wasn't until I just stopped, got off, and stopped worrying about it all that I finally found some peace. My life is still no picnic. But being able to just accept what is, it's made an enormous difference in how I live my life. The bad stuff, it still happens, but it doesn't seem to affect me in the same way. It's a bit like being in the eye of a hurricane. The storm it's still around me, but I'm sitting there in the middle most of the time and it's fine. I'm not scared. I'm not frantic. I don't feel like I have to measure up to or escape anything anymore. I just AM.

I like it. It sure beats how I used to live. Back then life was all stress, all work, all go go go. It was just too MUCH sometimes. It's not as exciting sometimes now but I don't mind the peace and quiet...