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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Interfaith

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  #21  
Old 09-06-2011, 02:37 PM
gentledove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ***ROM***
Everything old must come down before the new can be built up.

How can the "new" arise without some foundation?
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  #22  
Old 09-06-2011, 02:47 PM
gentledove
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Quote:
If nothing exists, then everything is possibility. Within Possibility all things have their beginning.

If nothing exists, then how can anything have a beginning? A beginning would suggest existence. Am curious...
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  #23  
Old 09-06-2011, 03:52 PM
pre-dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentledove
If nothing exists, then how can anything have a beginning? A beginning would suggest existence. Am curious...
You may have fallen into the usual trap of nihilism. Absolute nothingness, and by the same token the Buddhist void, does not negate existence. It negates all thoughts about existence.
Absolute nothingness is a total absence of thought, notions, feelings, beliefs and mental activity. From this point one can see that it is us who make everything up, including all disagreements.
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2011, 04:09 PM
astroboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pre-dawn
Absolute Nothingness must be the foundation for a successful interfaith dialogue.

Are we prepared to abandon all knowledge, opinions, notions, beliefs, scriptures, ideas, and start with a blank slate? No, start blank, without even a slate, even leaving the idea of interfaith behind?

What is left then?

Maybe just an encounter, human being to human being.

My answer is No. Read the following verse from SGGS Page 290

When this world had not yet appeared in any form,
who then committed sins and performed good deeds?
When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi,
then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?
When there was no color or shape to be seen,
then who experienced joy and sorrow?
When the Supreme Lord Himself was Himself All-in-all,
then where was emotional attachment, and who had doubts?
He Himself has staged His own drama;
O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||

When there was only God the Master,
then who was called bound or liberated?
When there was only the Lord, Unfathomable and Infinite,
then who entered hell, and who entered heaven?
When God was without attributes, in absolute poise,
then where was mind and where was matter?
When He held His Own Light unto Himself,
then who was fearless, and who was afraid?
He Himself is the Performer in His own plays;
O Nanak, the Lord Master is Unfathomable and Infinite. ||2||
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  #25  
Old 09-06-2011, 08:00 PM
athribiristan athribiristan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentledove
If nothing exists, then how can anything have a beginning? A beginning would suggest existence. Am curious...

Within the Void/Possibility, it can be said that nothing exists, thus the Void. But by virtue of that fact, everything is relegated to the realm of possibility; because nothing exists in fact it can ONLY exist as possibility. In the Void, nothing IS, but all things are possible.

Another popular word for Void is Chaos. I see creation following this broad pattern:

In the beginning was the Void. Most all creation myths agree on this and it makes logical sense if you stick with it long enough.

From the void arose other things. Within the realm of Possibility, there is the possibility of consciousness, among other things. There is the possibility that that consciousness will be presented with the choice to exist or not. There is the possibility that it will choose to exist. Once that happens we have moved back into familiar territory with God/Source asking itself 'Who/what am I?'

We, and this universe, are the process of that question resolving itself.

Now I'm not saying its a perfect theory, only that it makes more sense to me than anything else I've read or thought up. I really can't find a more primal concept than possibility. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.
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  #26  
Old 09-06-2011, 08:47 PM
Sentientno1
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pre Dawn..."Absolute nothingness is a total absence of thought, notions, feelings, beliefs and mental activity. From this point one can see that it is us who make everything up, including all disagreements."

Would like to accomodate you but among the realisers of no thing there is nothing to talk about, unless you want to talk about adjustment to freefall.( ?)

sentient no 1
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2011, 03:42 AM
pre-dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentientno1
pre Dawn..."Absolute nothingness is a total absence of thought, notions, feelings, beliefs and mental activity. From this point one can see that it is us who make everything up, including all disagreements."

Would like to accomodate you but among the realisers of no thing there is nothing to talk about, unless you want to talk about adjustment to freefall.( ?)
There is nothing to talk about, however it may still require action, there are a few things to do, no matter how realised one is.

The trouble is that the non-realisers of no thing want to talk to me and ask questions. Social etiquette, and we are social beings, may demand a response. The action in this case may be to talk or compose and send a post.
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2011, 04:15 PM
Sentientno1
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predawn: "
"The trouble is that the non-realisers of no thing want to talk to me and ask questions. Social etiquette, and we are social beings, may demand a response. The action in this case may be to talk or compose and send a post."

First off Dawn, if you feel ANYTHING is required you had best check your realisation. if you believe we are social beings, check your realisation. If you are hurt, angry or depressed over this response, check your realisation. i am not trying to denigate you, am trying to warn you about the most insidiouse thing a person can experience in any quest, self deception. it will stop even the most sincere and focused dead in thier tracks.

If you still want to talk to me you can do it on the forum or by pm. The choice is yours.
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  #29  
Old 11-06-2011, 12:52 AM
pre-dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentientno1
predawn: "
"The trouble is that the non-realisers of no thing want to talk to me and ask questions. Social etiquette, and we are social beings, may demand a response. The action in this case may be to talk or compose and send a post."

First off Dawn, if you feel ANYTHING is required you had best check your realisation. if you believe we are social beings, check your realisation. If you are hurt, angry or depressed over this response, check your realisation. i am not trying to denigate you, am trying to warn you about the most insidiouse thing a person can experience in any quest, self deception. it will stop even the most sincere and focused dead in thier tracks.

If you still want to talk to me you can do it on the forum or by pm. The choice is yours.
Why would you want to take a discussion into the space of pm's? What do you want to say that cannot be said in the public space?

The requirements after realisation are the requirements of physical existence, iow the body. You still need food and a place to sleep. That probably means work of some sorts, and in order to work one has to get along with other people. Our life is more than just mental and the realisations one may have in that realm. That's all.

I am OK with you thinking I am not realised. One more of your mental ruminations which you say are not required. How come it is there?
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  #30  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:21 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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It's a good idea pre-dawn... be as nothing and talk from there, because people talk as representitives of something else, to uphold something else, and these fall into conflict where one compromizes the other.

Conflict is like a refusal to compromise.

Trust is the issue too. The biggest issue of all. In the world no-one trusts 'America' but America isn't even a person, it's a front that people feel obliged to lie for (and even die for), something to uphold... but no body is there, it's a facade, someone made it up, so who is there to trust?
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