Fundamentals of mindful practice

I am thinking about this a lot lately.
I am thinking my choice in wording "meditation" as samatha and vipassana practises is confusing. The objective in my humble opinion, and what distinguishes the buddha's teachings from other religions is that all religions have some kind of doctrine of virtue.
Be kind, Love thy neighbour, help those in need etc.

Part of the buddha's teachings however focuses on the purification of the mind.
The Buddha(Gotama) gives us step by step instructions on how to achieve just that, where other religions give that power to the gods.
I.E be virtuous and ye shall be purified, whereas the Buddha instructs to pay close atttention to how the mind works and purify it yourself through understanding how the defilements come up and become..
(give rise to clinging)

With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

I am thinking about this a lot lately.
I am thinking my choice in wording "meditation" as samatha and vipassana practises is confusing. The objective in my humble opinion, and what distinguishes the buddha's teachings from other religions is that all religions have some kind of doctrine of virtue.
Be kind, Love thy neighbour, help those in need etc.

Part of the buddha's teachings however focuses on the purification of the mind.
The Buddha(Gotama) gives us step by step instructions on how to achieve just that, where other religions give that power to the gods.
I.E be virtuous and ye shall be purified, whereas the Buddha instructs to pay close atttention to how the mind works and purify it yourself through understanding how the defilements come up and become..
(give rise to clinging)

With Love
Eelco

Yes indeed, it's mainly to do with purification of the mind.

This issue of virtue isn't really a set of rules or commandments which religions set out - it really amounts to a fundamental sense of good will - a most primal wish for the happiness of everyone - and action thus motivated will tend to be kind and beneficial. Of course Buddhism is like other religions in the sense that there are rules called 'precepts' that are merely obeyed, but this basic adherence isn't to get a reward in heaven or gain favour from the Gods. It simply assists in enhancing ones mindfulness - which is like the 'way' of purification.

When we speak of purification we need be careful as people can begin to desire the imagined purity, and thereby become adverse toward their psychological defilements. But desire and aversion is in itself the essence of defilement, and it is precisely this that mindfulness addresses by 'just watching', seeing it just as it is, without doing anything about it. The difficulty, then, is not in what we must do, but in not doing anything - and people might underestimate the difficulty of remaining still regardless of their experience.

Many say it is effortless, but this means effortless in the sense of not trying to do anything, which leads us to the more arduous diligence of quiet observation, and fundamentally speaking, it is this quiet mindful equanimity that enables the process of purification.

Hence purification is the consequence rather than the aim of the practice. The aim is only to stablise the mind's equanimity so that the meditator can remain still during greater and greater extremes of their lived experiences, as the purification process will require increasing ability in mindful stability.

[blossomingtree]

My experience is effortless is such that you get to a place where even without having arisen, a thought or emotion is seen and dissipates. Of course, genuine Masters can live from a place of silence, and also be completely at ease in and amongst clamor. Buddhism is not dead Buddhism - it is alive and vibrant. Further, I reckon that mindfulness without inquiry (vipassana in Theravadan circles) leads one to a plateau - wisdom in the Buddhist sense is not attained. Ajahn Sumedo said that being nobody is still being somebody. Mindfulness is one part of Buddhist meditation but it goes far beyond that in both range and capability. I see now why inquiry is so important in most spiritual traditions.

[Gem]

I'm not attempting to proffer the 'most advanced practice', because mindfulness alludes the awareness of any starting.

That is perfectly obvious, so it seems remedial. The seeker is of the thought that there is something more, and this raises the issue of desire. The attention turns to that desire, and we are aware of the desire. It can be seen to be unsettling, disquieting by its nature, a rather futile struggle. But since one is aware of that mental disharmony, they themselves are not in disharmony... and thus no longer propagate it... and as it's not perpetuated any further, it can't go on.

Originally Posted by Gem

The seeker is of the thought that there is something more, and this raises the issue of desire.

Not necessarily so. Many a seeker is of a thought that there is somewhere where they suffer less. The distinction may be trivial, but has a profound effect on the way towards something else..

That said, Whether fueled by a desire for MORE or a longing for LESS. Living a virtues life will not lessen the impact of pain and gain, praise and blame. It will not make one see that the three characteristics of each phenomenon is in itself empty, impermanent and when clung to only yields dhukka.

That is where meditation in the buddhist sense comes in I believe.

With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Not necessarily so. Many a seeker is of a thought that there is somewhere where they suffer less. The distinction may be trivial, but has a profound effect on the way towards something else..

That said, Whether fueled by a desire for MORE or a longing for LESS. Living a virtues life will not lessen the impact of pain and gain, praise and blame. It will not make one see that the three characteristics of each phenomenon is in itself empty, impermanent and when clung to only yields dhukka.

That is where meditation in the buddhist sense comes in I believe.

With Love
Eelco

That right, people want to suffer less, not necessarily experience less pain.

[Gem]

I went into the morality and the chaos of one's life, and it started to become an argument, a competition for the most advanced, but we can't possibly broach this subject of mindfulness with such mindframes. Attempts would be futile.

The whole notion that I know what I'm talking about or I don't is misconstrued, because there is nothing that anyone can remember, learn, acquire as knowledge, as far as this subject is concerned. For example, consider, can you remember being aware? Sure, we can remember experiences, recollections, and recount things we have learned, but when I ask, how do you know that you are aware? One does not go to memory, does not recount anything, but rather, 'just knows'.

This may create an impression to 'get a feel' for mindfulness.

Many, including myself, have learned the techniques as advocated by Gotama the Buddha, and I advocate these modes of practice as well, but I have found that the meditation itself isn't widely understood, and I don't suppose it could be until one opens the void. The issue is, this can't be done. There is no way of 'making it happen', it is quintessentially non-volitional. You can try to make it happen right now, and see that doesn't work. You can be before the trying and watch all that trying, and it is simply true that you are aware of that.

In the teaching itself, the Buddha is not a person. Gotama is nothing more that something we imagine. We concocted it from what we learned, and it is only real in so much as it is believed. Oh, and nothing affects ones life more than what they believe, so in that sense, it's as real as it gets...

There is yourself to know, but that can't be learned, only recognised, and not remembered, for there is no distance in time and space, for this which hasn't any duration, no beginning nor end, nor other quantifiable parameters, but there can be no doubt that there is awareness of 'this'. This is known, yet not acquired, for the mind can't even begin to grasp it.

Mindfulness, to see it as it is, has to cease in its volition to make it happen, because nothing can be done from the perspective of any doer, as you are already here, and precede any motion of the mind. The mind can't withstand your observation, as it makes no difference what the mind does, for only interest in the mind keeps it thinking away. The obsession with thought is causing a lot of distress, because we think we are individuals apart from our thoughts, and if thought should end, so too would I. Me. The imaginary character would vanish, or you might see it as the self-image it is, and I dare say, you will see it for the deceiver which it is. It can't endure truthfulness of the most radical kind, but who is ready to die for the truth?

I accept when it comes to 'saving their own life', deception is preferable. The underlying fear is completely understandable, so there's no judgment here. For me, there is no one to judge in the first place, there's only imaginary characters in my head, but that of us which is actually alive is the same living awareness. The same one. All the different mind and body processes that characterise various personas are appearing unto the spacious presence of us. It is the dream man that has its life path to walk, arises into attention and goes through its entire process of transformational change before fading out of attention.

I jump to the end, yet there is no interim to transverse... Mindfulness isn't taking a person from here in this depraved state to there in an enlightened state. Mindfulness is to see it as it is. To realise what is true. I know the mind insists that we have to undergo some sort of duration, but we can watch that thought as it plays out, and it would be foolhardy, would it not, to believe what we can clearly see is nothing but an imaginary thought?

Thanks. I hope that was somewhat entertaining.

Originally Posted by Gem

I jump to the end, yet there is no interim to transverse... Mindfulness isn't taking a person from here in this depraved state to there in an enlightened state. Mindfulness is to see it as it is. To realise what is true. I know the mind insists that we have to undergo some sort of duration, but we can watch that thought as it plays out, and it would be foolhardy, would it not, to believe what we can clearly see is nothing but an imaginary thought?

Thanks. I hope that was somewhat entertaining.

Confused.
Isn't mindfulness exactly supposed to do just that. Taking a person and through staying mindfull of what is, Being Mindfull that the arising and passing away of phenomenon are subject to the 3 characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta. DOes the Buddha not promise that seeing thus will lead to Nibbana ?

With Love

[Gem]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Confused.
Isn't mindfulness exactly supposed to do just that. Taking a person and through staying mindfull of what is, Being Mindfull that the arising and passing away of phenomenon are subject to the 3 characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta. DOes the Buddha not promise that seeing thus will lead to Nibbana ?

With Love

When I was studying meditation under the guidance of the teachers, I remember one teacher saying to me, if you are chasing enlightenment, you are running the wrong way.

The practice is a balance of equanimity, which means, the cessation personal reactivity. I think a meditator will have experienced that reacting to experience 'ends' the meditation. To be aware of the experience as it is with that still equanimity of mind is the whole of the practice. Hence meditation is only conscious awareness and equanimity. The experience, what ever it might be for any individual, is only an aside.

Mindfulness is the cessation of the volition itself, the end of the cause of mental production, because the mindful one, as the one aware, precedes the one who does - and it's simple to see that you are aware of your own doings.

The aware one is not individual - it is the same for everyone. Of course people experience individually (anicca) through the senses of body mind, but the awareness of experience in general is a universal quality. Need I state the obvious?

Hence mindfulness meditation is not an activity, rather, it is 'before' activity, the awareness of activity, as one may meditate on the motions of their breath. As my teacher once put it "you just watch; Dhamma does the rest".

To end I feel I need to point out that I am not attempting to provide any answer for anything. I don't know myself, you see, so I only say what comes to mind. There is nothing in it to learn, and it's just for my bit of entertainment, and I only hope we enjoy the conversation and perhaps open on some insight in our own explorations..

[blossomingtree]

Awareness practice has no "limitations" and meditation/mindfulness doesn't end with cognition, it encompasses all of it. It is awareness which acts, in an ultimate sense..People are not fictional - they are by chance friends. A mind or feeling suppressed still leaks, so why pretend; it is by far the end.. Love the teachers' quotes.