Dependent origination

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

What does that mean in regards to my quote about the base of the Primordial State.

We are merged with this human body and it's brain and we don't leave the body until it stops working. So really it is about changing our relationship with the body and it's mind, not escaping it which is impossible until death. So it as input is always there, but then through awareness we can stop identifying with it, can learn to direct our attention elsewhere. Also what we actually are, not what we have or what we are merged with, is not a state. The state is determined by what it's relationship is with what is external to it. The primordial state would be referring to it as it is, unaffected. In human terms, which is the point of it, it would be non-identifying or liberation from human content, but even there it is not referring to the senses just the content of verbal interpretative mind.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Just the fact of a going back and forth proves one is still in the local mind. Really you are just hitting highs based on your level and then kind of going back to normal mode.

To me it is like peeling an onion. A slow process. Yes one forgets and goes back into mind, but mind is a little nicer, a little more kind, there are residual effects to being in a non-verbal state. One also understands more, is aware of more. Likewise, if one gets lost in some negative emotion, like anger, that too can have a residual effect for days after the experience. These things, as you say, are energies. They may take awhile to dissipate. Also we are talking about learning things. When you first learn something, you may have some difficulty remembering it. You go back to old patterns. But as you do it more and more, it eventually becomes the norm. It takes time and like I said, that time could be lifetimes. I read once in a book that this one person took 100 incarnations to get rid of jealously. One person may spend an entire incarnation to learn even the smallest compassion by caring for a sickly dog they found. Eventually that person could devote their life to caring for lepers or all others.

[running]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

We are merged with this human body and it's brain and we don't leave the body until it stops working. So really it is about changing our relationship with the body and it's mind, not escaping it which is impossible until death. So it as input is always there, but then through awareness we can stop identifying with it, can learn to direct our attention elsewhere. Also what we actually are, not what we have or what we are merged with, is not a state. The state is determined by what it's relationship is with what is external to it. The primordial state would be referring to it as it is, unaffected. In human terms, which is the point of it, it would be non-identifying or liberation from human content, but even there it is not referring to the senses just the content of verbal interpretative mind.



To me it is like peeling an onion. A slow process. Yes one forgets and goes back into mind, but mind is a little nicer, a little more kind, there are residual effects to being in a non-verbal state. One also understands more, is aware of more. Likewise, if one gets lost in some negative emotion, like anger, that too can have a residual effect for days after the experience. These things, as you say, are energies. They may take awhile to dissipate. Also we are talking about learning things. When you first learn something, you may have some difficulty remembering it. You go back to old patterns. But as you do it more and more, it eventually becomes the norm. It takes time and like I said, that time could be lifetimes. I read once in a book that this one person took 100 incarnations to get rid of jealously. One person may spend an entire incarnation to learn even the smallest compassion by caring for a sickly dog they found. Eventually that person could devote their life to caring for lepers or all others.

nobody loses their mind. nor does anyone lose their ability to have preferences. or the ability to have emotions.

what happens is a new door is opened which has more power than the mind, preferences, and emotions. have you ever had a campfire? notice how pine needles, and paper products burn up right away into ashes. that door that one opens to acts just like that. everything is like dry pine needles and paper on a fire. that jealousy. that love. that anger. that disappointment. that whatever it may be doesn't hang around like it once did. not because you figured out some way to not have such an expereince. but that the depth of silence. the depth of joy running through the body. is like a campfire and everything else is like paper on a fire. you expereince everything as you did before yet differently. overriding and out powering everything is bliss and silence.

the way to that door is like peeling an onion. as some of the obstructions are likely in the emotional body. needing to be discovered and released.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by running

nobody loses their mind. nor does anyone lose their ability to have preferences. or the ability to have emotions.

what happens is a new door is opened which has more power than the mind, preferences, and emotions. have you ever had a campfire? notice how pine needles, and paper products burn up right away into ashes. that door that one opens to acts just like that. everything is like dry pine needles and paper on a fire. that jealousy. that love. that anger. that disappointment. that whatever it may be doesn't hang around like it once did. not because you figured out some way to not have such an expereince. but that the depth of silence. the depth of joy running through the body. is like a campfire and everything else is like paper on a fire. you expereince everything as you did before. but overriding and out powering everything is bliss and silence.

the way to that door is like peeling an onion. as some of the obstructions are likely in the emotional body. needing to be discovered and released.

That was a great explanation. Yea with more compassion you feel some things more, through your whole body. More connection with others.

[running]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

That was a great explanation. Yea with more compassion you feel some things more, through your whole body. More connection with others.

bliss and silence isn't a doing or have an agenda. which could be seen as the ultimate compassion. since it is love(joy) itself. it is silence itself. and when one opens. opens enough to be in that silence, that bliss. that fire that everything is like paper to. one is also open to whats around them. thankfully because the bliss and silence outpowers everything else. although you may expereince depresssion or other things from others. they are just paper to the fire of bliss and silence. its the ultimate protection that is of joy(love) and silence. the thing all things crave.

the heart is the key. somehow its from the opening and unraveling of the heart that seems to lift, open, and unravel everythting else. how this happens is a bit of a mystery and different for everybody. but things like meditation, pranayama, transmissions from persons in that and or presence have shown to be helpful. among many other practices. or sometimes it just happens perhaps.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by running

bliss and silence isn't a doing or have an agenda. which could be seen as the ultimate compassion. since it is love(joy) itself. it is silence itself. and when one opens. opens enough to be in that silence, that bliss. that fire that everything is like paper to. one is also open to whats around them. thankfully because the bliss and silence outpowers everything else. although you may expereince depresssion or other things from others. they are just paper to the fire of bliss and silence. its the ultimate protection that is of joy(love) and silence. the thing all things crave.

the heart is the key. somehow its from the opening and unraveling of the heart that seems to lift, open, and unravel everythting else. how this happens is a bit of a mystery and different for everybody. but things like meditation, pranayama, transmissions from persons in that and or presence have shown to be helpful. among many other practices. or sometimes it just happens perhaps.

NICE COMMENTS!

What you speak about can be found in other belief systems. They go by different names, etc.

I enjoy those time periods.... to me, that is where the magick 'is'.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

What is as it is with total silence is not nirvana.

What is as it is can mean a million different things. Even the understanding of the quote you referenced means something different to me than you.

As it is to me is the Primordial State, perfect clarity and beyond duality. If you are not at that realization you are far from as it is.

I only use 'what is, as it is' to refer to 'this' experience and you experience it now. That's the one and only meaning I have been using all this time.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You do realize that isn’t a goal in Buddhism?

Imagination isn’t bad. The Buddha used it a lot to tell stories people could relate to.

Also what does verbalization have to do with anything?

The quote is about being that was referenced. It is a being that one realizes not a thought, concept, etc.

So, it's not imaginary?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

It can be bad, or it can be good, depends how one uses it and what it leads to. That is probably true of everything.

Sure... what nature of intent moves the mind/body to think, speak and act?

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

Sure... what nature of intent moves the mind/body to think, speak and act?

I just saw that video of Joaquin Phoenix Rescuing a Mother Cow and Newborn Calf from a slaughter house. He has a compassionate intent. He even had no ill will for the slaughter house owner. That's love.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Both are true. I have arrived at understanding what the path is about and I have only just begun at recognizing and sweeping the dust off the mirror.



Teachers are always showing the way. Millions of teachers. Everybody and everything, every experience is a teacher. A person does not forget one thing they have ever heard, read, saw, thought, or said. The words of Buddha, Jesus, and on and on... millions of words. It is all in memory, perhaps the content of thousands of past lives as well. Maybe the words of elders in the place between lives. Maybe even the "whispers" of spirit guides as one sleeps or during the day. All of that has led here, to this moment, to this understanding, this choice in what I am now, what I do, say, experience, and perceive, create. Even our understanding is a teacher. It's impossible to not have a teacher. Unless one would say understanding is what we are, and not what we have. The energy and structure of conscious energy is way beyond what a human can understand, but it is interesting to ponder. Understanding is added, so perhaps it is a external energy added or blended with self. A permanently attached teacher, but then philosophy speaks about that inner voice, that is always present, that tells us right from wrong. Our conscience that lets us feel when we did something wrong. Is it something we get, or something we have that we ignore? I'd say the latter.

Is that what you would want to hear from a doctor?

They teach you practices that you experience/realize and help you move along the path, not to fast, not to slow.

Also, with true realize that conscious energy can be shared. One should work one developing oneself to get to the point of recognizing people like that. Not by what they say but by there presence alone.