Best book on spiritualism

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by leadville

In response to the question you posed "Are the Phenomena of Spiritualism in Harmony with Science?" I wrote "They're not presently able to be explained by the sciences of this dimension and may never be able to be explained by them."

Will you please give some examples of them 'going together' and/or how science explains phenomena linked to Spiritualism?

One of the first experiments was done by a real scientist back in 1879.

TRANSCENDENTAL PHYSICS
written in German by Professor Johann Karl Friedrich Zöllner in [1879]

translated into English by C. C. Massey [1880]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

One of the first experiments was done by a real scientist back in 1879.

TRANSCENDENTAL PHYSICS
written in German by Professor Johann Karl Friedrich Zöllner in [1879]

translated into English by C. C. Massey [1880]

They were indeed early experiments and from 140 years ago whose results I don't know anything about.

Going back to what I asked, perhaps you would summarise for us how this scientist's experiments explained phenomena linked to Spiritualism? Better yet would be some contemporary ones that also did that.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by leadville

They were indeed early experiments and from 140 years ago whose results I don't know anything about.

Going back to what I asked, perhaps you would summarise for us how this scientist's experiments explained phenomena linked to Spiritualism? Better yet would be some contemporary ones that also did that.

He claimed events were done by spirit in the fourth dimension.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

He claimed events were done by spirit in the fourth dimension.

I assume you mean phenomena when you say "events". His claim concerning fourth dimension individuals is, though, hardly a conclusion reached by scientific experiment. It also doesn't address what you'd asked about, the aspect of phenomena being in harmony with science.

Unless one thinks magic and sorcery are real and authentic and can produce effects unrelated to cause and effect then all phenomena must be produced in accordance with scientific laws - even if we don't know the science(s) governing their production. But discarnate scientists may know about scientific laws relating to our physical dimension that our incarnate scientists don't and may use them in the production of phenomena. Of course without understanding the sciences - or even being aware of their existence if they do exist - our scientists can't experiment on or use them.

Take the once-well-known physical phenomenon of creating ectoplasm. We've been told discarnate scientists extract material from incarnates' bodies and add something to it to create so-called ectoplasm. That is then manipulated to make objects that are solid in our dimension but often - not always - susceptible to damage by white light. After the ectoplasm has been used for whatever purpose it had been made the material borrowed from the incarnates gets returned to their bodies.

I think we might agree that our earth scientists would firstly find that notion hard even to accept as authentic but then find all-but-impossible to conduct experiments on. Similar difficulty would be experienced for other physical phenomena such as the direct voice. These phenomena appear to be down to unknown science being utilised in their production.

The aspect of phenomena being linked to Spiritualism is irrelevant other than it often being the case that mediums who happened to be Spiritualists were involved. Scientific experiments to investigate these phenomena has not - to the best of my knowledge - indicated much about what happens.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by leadville

When I first started my search I read this book intensively but as I found other books and had direct experience I found there were issues in it that didn't ring true. Eventually I moved on but Kardec's work had provided valuable reference material against which I could evaluate other information.

I may be going to another Kardec Spiritist group this evening, and I agree that there is indeed some interesting stuff in his Spirits' Book. Like yourself, however, there are some things that don't quite ring true. After all, not all spirits are "enlightened beings".

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by leadville

I've been around SF and this Spiritualism forum (plus a few others on occasion) for many years.

Meditation can be beneficial and if it's something you enjoy then there's no reason not to do it. I enjoy sitting with others that way but it has no value for me doing it by myself.

I've meditated for years and, although I enjoyed group meditations at one time to establish myself in the discipline, I now prefer meditating by myself.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by leadville

It's not for me to tell others what's a fair charge but it would certainly be nice if modern day practitioners were to use their gift for the benefit of others - and to serve the spirit - with no or little charge for the time they give; the way the pioneers of Spiritualism gave their service. But in this modern world some of our practitioners use their gifts to provide themselves with an income that enables a very high standard of living. If they had sacrificed a career/ job and the income it would have brought to devote all their time to the service of others maybe that's reasonable....??

It would be fair enough if their services benefited a lot of individuals who otherwise would not get to learn of the message of survival but perhaps not so fair if it's playing to just a small group of financially-privileged individuals.

The issues about charging for mediumship and other services is a perennial and thorny one.

One of my goals in life was to become financially secure so that I would never have to charge for spiritual sharing and, fortunately, that has materialized. I used to run free meditation groups at my home for years and I have never had to charge.

While I understand that fees are sometimes necessary to support one's spiritual activities, charging for spiritual services has always raised a "red flag" with me personally.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I may be going to another Kardec Spiritist group this evening, and I agree that there is indeed some interesting stuff in his Spirits' Book. Like yourself, however, there are some things that don't quite ring true. After all, not all spirits are "enlightened beings".

If you do make it I'd be interested in hearing your findings/reactions if you'd care to share your experience.

I agree wholeheartedly with your final point. Time and time again I've tried to convey the point to seekers that simply because a communicator is in spirit form - a discarnate - it does not automatically make them omniscient.

What a spirit says about what she/he is experiencing (or has experienced) 'over there' is irrefutable but her/his view or opinion about material matters in this world and/or about philosophical issues generally, should not be relied on unless a track record of dependability has been established - and even then caution is desirable. I make that point particularly in connection with individuals who say they 'channel' discarnates, andheed their ideas, which they then use as guidance. I'm not saying they shouldn't, only that they should remain cautious what they use for personal guidance.

It might be argued that those discarnates who are most readily contactable are those who remain 'close' to the vibration of this physical dimension. If that's so it may suggest their personal spiritual progression has some way to go. It may indeed be little or no further along than our own hence it may be unwise to heed their supposed guidance.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

One of my goals in life was to become financially secure so that I would never have to charge for spiritual sharing and, fortunately, that has materialized. I used to run free meditation groups at my home for years and I have never had to charge.

While I understand that fees are sometimes necessary to support one's spiritual activities, charging for spiritual services has always raised a "red flag" with me personally.

I applaud and endorse your approach to serving the spirit. It seems to me that those who can, should and those who can't should try to minimise what they have to charge seekers of their services. You've done very well in achieving your goals.

I share similar misgivings about certain mediums and their charges for services. While needing to raise an income if one's life has been devoted to service of the spirit practitioners should search their consciences over what are fair and reasonable charges. Those whose lives involve considerable travel and living out of suitcases have to be able to cover those high costs. Others working from home with few additional costs attributable to the service they provide are under much less pressure. Provide all of them give 'good value' then I'm comfortable leaving them to decide what their charges need to be.

What I am very uncomfortable about, however, are certain high-profile practitioners who have been outed as bogus, as frauds, as cheats, yet continue to maintain a jet-set life performing their acts internationally and continuing to present themselves as mediums.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I've meditated for years and, although I enjoyed group meditations at one time to establish myself in the discipline, I now prefer meditating by myself.

perfectly understandable - We each have our own preferences.