What did the Buddah actually achieve?

[OEN34]

Originally Posted by sky123

Very serious... Moment to moment whatever happens, embrace it. The robins accepted what happened then acted, they moved on and did what birds do, nature is what it is.

Completely agree.

What a beautiful way to be. Many will cringe and be defensive at this thinking, but this is attachment. Of course we have a different brain and mind to a robin, we process emotions differently, but regardless, we can learn a lot from them in this example by becoming less attached to outcome and be as present as possible.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

You might find more affinity in some Mahayana traditions, but certainly, as you say, if you are content, not questioning anymore, are at peace, love and am compassionate, loving, genuinely happy, Buddhism is not required.

What you mention many have experienced in a Buddhist practice sense. There are words for this in Mahayana Buddhism, but really, does it really even matter then? I would think not.

Reading your ideas about Buddhism, about the robins etc. I am curious how you developed these ideas about Buddhist practice and Buddhism. In over a decade and a half in online Buddhist communities or real life centers, I have not seen these ideas you see as applicable. Not that I mind at all, it's good to have dialogue regardless

By the way, I have not traditionally regarded this forum as a Buddhist forum, mainly because the cross section of posts and posters has often led to a lot of misconception and inaccuracy in representing Buddhist teachings. Why does it matter? Because it's an art form developed to help all suffering beings, and the Buddha (as a realized and genuine Master/teacher) was precise and skilful for good reason.

Be well, BlueSky

BT

Thanks BT, I appreciate your words and quotes and energy. Having walked the path of a Christian early on, I can appreciate the written word but I also don't seek them out for guidance. When they come to me, I'm all ears and heart.
Your quote on no self is exactly what I posted to Gem earlier and I find that comforting.
I've studied and walked all paths. I learned or unlearned from all of them. I even walked the path of a shaman of sorts.
All of these paths are reflected in my posts.
I certainly don't rely on forums for guidance but I learn here as well and Buddhist forums as well as this one all point to the same thing Christianity does and that is the written word is subject to interpretation and interpretation is subject to sincerity and maturity.
My sincerity has always been there so I am able to learn in a special way.
What I learned about Buddhism is the energy behind the majority that seek it out. It's real obvious here but that's good because it just helps it to be noticed.
I don't want that but I don't exclude being taught directly about the Buddha thru the many ways life teaches me.
Buddhism had become for me the closest thing that I could put a label on what I relate to. Buddhism as I saw it, not necessarily as buddhists saw it.
I am beginning to see, from your post and quote, that I am not at odds with the energy of the Buddha as it is. I am at odds with the interpretations which being that there are so many, it stands to reason.
I am at peace and I adore life. My life is not and never has been easy or without pain. Maybe it has been more so than many but my sincerity and my connection to life seen and unseen has helped me to grow thru it all and appreciate it. I am left not knowing and not not knowing but more importantly not trying to know and not rejecting knowing.
Like your quote, I don't think about such things but rest assured, I did and I always came up short preceded by thinking that I found something lol

Thanks again for your words and for the energy behind them.
Peace

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by OEN34

Completely agree.

What a beautiful way to be. Many will cringe and be defensive at this thinking, but this is attachment. Of course we have a different brain and mind to a robin, we process emotions differently, but regardless, we can learn a lot from them in this example by becoming less attached to outcome and be as present as possible.

Yes but I think ignorance causes many on spiritual paths to seek to become like the mind and brain of the robin in such circumstances.
Consequently becoming attached to such a state as a spiritual goal.
I get it, I've been there and I've seen the folly in it.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well, the sense of being isn't really an idea.


Indeed, there is no no me and no one knows teehee,


It just means people aren't who they, or we, think they are.


Good point!


Indeed. That sounds most reasonable.


Ditto.

Yes the sense of being is most certainly not an idea and neither is what I see as my true nature. That's really all I know.

Originally Posted by BlueSky

One can simply see the impermanence in relationships from such an experience or one could see so much more.
We have to be careful to not only see what we want to see IMO of course

Yes there is always MORE. But if I were to start writing all I see from that one experience i'd need a few volumes.. For this discussion the impermanence angle was what I wanted to convey. I'm glad you know this and appear to have a broader perspective on the difference between The Buddha, Buddhism and how it is interpreted than I was led to belief early on when you posed your statement in post 6.

With Love
Eelco

[blossomingtree]

Three Dharma seals:

Annica - impermanance
Anatta - not-self
Dukkha - unsatisfactoriness

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Thanks BT, I appreciate your words and quotes and energy. Having walked the path of a Christian early on, I can appreciate the written word but I also don't seek them out for guidance. When they come to me, I'm all ears and heart.
Your quote on no self is exactly what I posted to Gem earlier and I find that comforting.
I've studied and walked all paths. I learned or unlearned from all of them. I even walked the path of a shaman of sorts.
All of these paths are reflected in my posts.
I certainly don't rely on forums for guidance but I learn here as well and Buddhist forums as well as this one all point to the same thing Christianity does and that is the written word is subject to interpretation and interpretation is subject to sincerity and maturity.
My sincerity has always been there so I am able to learn in a special way.
What I learned about Buddhism is the energy behind the majority that seek it out. It's real obvious here but that's good because it just helps it to be noticed.
I don't want that but I don't exclude being taught directly about the Buddha thru the many ways life teaches me.
Buddhism had become for me the closest thing that I could put a label on what I relate to. Buddhism as I saw it, not necessarily as buddhists saw it.
I am beginning to see, from your post and quote, that I am not at odds with the energy of the Buddha as it is. I am at odds with the interpretations which being that there are so many, it stands to reason.
I am at peace and I adore life. My life is not and never has been easy or without pain. Maybe it has been more so than many but my sincerity and my connection to life seen and unseen has helped me to grow thru it all and appreciate it. I am left not knowing and not not knowing but more importantly not trying to know and not rejecting knowing.
Like your quote, I don't think about such things but rest assured, I did and I always came up short preceded by thinking that I found something lol

Thanks again for your words and for the energy behind them.
Peace

I think you are closer to Buddhism than you think, as I said many traditions have a different vibe or approach to teaching it, but its underlying revelations are similar in my experience and perspective.

I have followed the Thai Forest Theravadan school more than others though so perhaps other Theravadan schools are a bit stricter and more philosophical in their interpretations. I do not know enough about them to talk about it, but I basically have great respect for all practitioners in the schools of Buddhism as all are working for their own peace and that of others, whether they know it or not.

On reflection, I also probably hang out too much with similar backgrounded people so maybe my interpretation of Buddhists comes from that. (oops!)

Some Zen teacher or other said "not knowing is most intimate". At the end of the day, be well, and if we are kind and honest, we are already half way home, in my opinion.

"interpretation is subject to sincerity and maturity."

Yes, but I also think it's related to spiritual experience i.e. genuine revelations - and how close the person is to their true awareness. I guess the latter some call spiritual maturity.

By the way in regards to your comment the other day

That's my point, I'm not saying there is or isn't enlightenment or there is or isn't purpose, I'm saying from experience that if you are sincere in such things you will not find them. If you are not sincere or subconsciously needing to see such things as truth, for whatever reason, then you will find whatever you are looking for.

This was not my (personal) experience but a thought (relevant or not is for you to decide ) - perhaps that it is actually related to when you "let go", when you were able to "step back and release, that is when things happened. What you were doing when seeking and inquiring though was watering the seeds... So they worked together and whilst it seemed experiences/insights came when you no longer "were sincere", I think it may have been when you "let go". Sincerity always helps, in my personal opinion, especially if one is heart bound.

My opinions of course, only. Be well, BlueSky and may you and your loved ones be safe and happy.

BT

[OEN34]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Yes but I think ignorance causes many on spiritual paths to seek to become like the mind and brain of the robin in such circumstances.
Consequently becoming attached to such a state as a spiritual goal.
I get it, I've been there and I've seen the folly in it.

Maybe, or maybe there are people who genuinely come from a place of detachment and don't see it as an act or a goal reached.

Being detached from outcome or completely at peace with what happens does not necessarily mean one is attempting to attain a goal.

I'm not there yet, by the way.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by OEN34

Maybe, or maybe there are people who genuinely come from a place of detachment and don't see it as an act or a goal reached.

Being detached from outcome or completely at peace with what happens does not necessarily mean one is attempting to attain a goal.

I'm not there yet, by the way.

Just for the sake of discussion, you say that you are not there so you must have some thoughts on where there is. How do you imagine someone who is there would react in a situation such as the robins were in. If it was your children do you imagine "there" being detached and at peace? Is that what you want?

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Just for the sake of discussion, you say that you are not there so you must have some thoughts on where there is. How do you imagine someone who is there would react in a situation such as the robins were in. If it was your children do you imagine "there" being detached and at peace? Is that what you want?

For the sake of argument..
Imagining how one will react if one of their children die is ludicrous. Judging them on how they would wish to react from some imagined state of mind after observing a few birds react is even more ludicrous.

We have no way of knowing how birds cope with the loss of their children.
They don't have tear ducts like us, they cannot cry out in despair.
And even if they could we would probably read into that cry wrong.

I am pretty sure though that staying equanimous in the face of a loss of ones children is not the epiphany and end all of what it means to be enlightened. Even though it may be listed as a preferable state of mind. For me it is more about loosing the fetters to some degree. Being free from anger, lust, craving, jealousy and other assorted states that tend to make life more difficult. Looking with equanimity at the arising of anger and then choosing to act on it is preferable than lashing out in anger at everything that I perceive as the cause of my anger.

With Love
Eelco