Realizations and conclusions of the mind and beyond ..

[inavalan]

What do you-here-now think about you-in-your-dream theorizing the same ideas you presented in this thread?

I believe that the analogy of waking up from a dream is better than the one of peeling a banana.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I've been struggling to lose 10 pounds for over a year. I'd deny myself food, suffer with hunger and denial and in a few weeks lose it, then in a week, gain it all back. I was in a battle with my body and my thoughts and my mind, See I am not my body or my thoughts or my mind. These are things I have until my body dies and I exist without them.

The "me" is who decided I was tired of having this 10 pounds of fat. I found I could not "win" against my body and mind and thoughts in the ways I was trying. I would always gain the weight back, Then I found a book on intermittent fasting. This is where you allow yourself to only eat in a small window of time.

I only eat from 3PM to 8PM. I lost the 10 pounds and have not gained it back. It has worked for me. I think the main reason it has worked is I no longer have to struggle with my body and mind and thoughts all day. Fight with these things. This "rule" that I only eat from 3PM to 8PM means I don't think about food all day. This rule superceeds all else so my mind and body and thoughts have no opportunity to come into play. From 3PM to 8PM I eat whatever I want. I get really full though and can't really eat that much in this small time window so yea, my weight gain has stopped.

I found a way to beat my body and minds desire for too much food.

Having a battle with your mind-body in relation to food doesn't negate the union that is what you are that encompasses everything .

This battle you are having and the distinctions you are making comes about through your perception you have of yourself.

This is entirely natural so to speak, that's why the swan believed it was an ugly duckling because that is what he believed of himself.

It doesn't however make it true ..

But what does one have to work with and go on if one has only certain reflections to perceive ..

What is your understanding of oneness in regards to what you are and all there is?

Do you have any if you don't mind me asking ..

You say that you are not your mind or your body, so where does the mind and body fit in with the grand scheme of things .

I hear it often, that I am not my thoughts, well whose thought's do they belong to whose are they?

If there is only what you are, all one is doing is chopping and dividing all there is into a certain piles, one pile for what you are and one pile for what you are not .

One has to look at the point of awareness that makes these distinctions and then ask oneself from where am I coming from .



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

yes

Why is the banana skin no longer part of the banana just because it has been peeled .

The fruit and the skin is what makes the banana a banana ..

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Why would anybody believe there is only what I am? I am not my parents, not you, not my cats. I'm just this little awareness in this body. There are zillions of things that are not me.

As mentioned above one concludes what they do about themselves due to how they perceive themselves .

You have illustrated this yourself by saying you are just this little awareness in this body ..

How have you concluded this? By what means? Having a thought of oneself?

A thought that doesn't belong to you?



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

If one comes to the conclusion that mind-body is illusion one should be able to touch a red hot stove and not be burnt.

This person has realized something beyond the body and can now see the illusion.

I agree with your line of thought and have given many examples in my time when peeps start saying no-one is here or what is here is just a dream character with no real substance .. but they don't walk in front of a bus even when they don't believe in cause and effect lol ..

It is very troubling to say the least that certain spiritual folk are walking around with these mind-sets, but I suppose each journey had is relevant to all.

I find a lot of the time there are those that speak about these concepts and defend these concepts but don't actually abide by them .. They continue to live life as if someone really is here .



x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by inavalan

What do you-here-now think about you-in-your-dream theorizing the same ideas you presented in this thread?

I believe that the analogy of waking up from a dream is better than the one of peeling a banana.

Are you suggesting I have theorised the same ideas in my dream as I do here and now? I am not following your question .


x daz x

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Thought it might be interesting to discuss this in reflection of a conversation had on Tara's thread about the spiritual teacher Robert Adams.

This isn't a Robert Adams or any other guru bashing thread or a defending of anyone's thread, it is simply addressing what is realized per se and what is concluded via the mind and how it is so.

So firstly one would have to address 'realizations' that are either of the mind or 'realizations' that are beyond the mind.

Realizations beyond the mind cannot even be called 'realizations' to a certain extent because there is no self present. There are no mindful reflections, or comparisons had of what you are, so there cannot be the thought that I have nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality.

So we have to get this straight as a foundation to begin with. Agreed?

What I hear often and I am sure others do also, is peeps / teachers / guru's say that they are this or they are not this etc etc,

So where does this information come from?

It's easy to have an experience of the mind and burn your hand on the stove for examples sake.

You realize that the stove is hot and your hand burns.

These are all experiential realizations had, that are all mindful.

So then there is the so called realizations beyond the mindful experience had.

Then one again becomes aware of the stove post-realization and proclaims that the mind-body-reality is an illusion and perhaps there is only an illusory self present.

How do peeps think that they have realized all this when the realization itself pertains to no thought about oneself or this world .

self and the world do not exist at this point because there is no you .

What realization is it that one has that gives one the truthful impression or the knowing that they have nothing to do with this world or the body or that they can somehow float around as an unidentified self.


x daz x

Perhaps unidentified simply means, I exist but I’m not attached to my existence or the world as it is around me. ‘I am aware Of what I am beyond all this, beyond thoughts and mind”. The self that is beyond thoughts and mind is awareness, so it’s through ones direct experience you become aware of yourself aware. Awareness doesn’t rely on physical senses.

It’s recognition without knowing. It’s knowing recognising awareness aware. It’s directly experienced from within. It’s clarity, it’s clear. It doesn’t grapple with thoughts about it..;)

As for your thoughts about those being the self that doesn’t exist, how they live often is in ways more aligned to how they are choosing to be in the world as that.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree with your line of thought and have given many examples in my time when peeps start saying no-one is here or what is here is just a dream character with no real substance .. but they don't walk in front of a bus even when they don't believe in cause and effect lol ..

It is very troubling to say the least that certain spiritual folk are walking around with these mind-sets, but I suppose each journey had is relevant to all.

I find a lot of the time there are those that speak about these concepts and defend these concepts but don't actually abide by them .. They continue to live life as if someone really is here .



x daz x

In your curiosity I have to ask why does this concept and way people are experiencing themselves have you believe they still are not living in the world in some way?. It’s like you are impressed in their way that they are super human or something?

You might see a few people in the world, checked out and inwardly living through these type of concepts, it’s choice and path, as is choice to be in the world but not of it in other ways. The practice of being no self and expressing ones realisations as such become a point of focus but even so thus too might change or not. We may realize ourselves as something at certain points of our life, but times change as do we..the realisations move one with life as life is and becomes.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Perhaps unidentified simply means, I exist but I’m not attached to my existence or the world as it is around me. ‘I am aware Of what I am beyond all this, beyond thoughts and mind”. The self that is beyond thoughts and mind is awareness, so it’s through ones direct experience you become aware of yourself aware. Awareness doesn’t rely on physical senses.

It’s recognition without knowing. It’s knowing recognising awareness aware. It’s directly experienced from within. It’s clarity, it’s clear. It doesn’t grapple with thoughts about it..;)

As for your thoughts about those being the self that doesn’t exist, how they live often is in ways more aligned to how they are choosing to be in the world as that.

I think there can be many words used to describe similar things so there can be some leeway for sure.

I would say it depends on context as always, for some will say they are unidentified in reflection of their belief that no-one is here and that belief / premise falls apart when the moment they engage with normal life.

For folks to say they are unattached when they have more than they need just opens up a multitude of issues, you see on some t.v shows like American Pickers were people hoard loads of stuff, so much stuff that they can't move for lack of room in their houses and they find it difficult to let go of any of it ..

Many see this as attachment, and it stands to reason, some might equally say that they can hoard as much stuff or an obscene amount of money and not be attached to it ..

One might then question like I have, why do you have it then, why accumulate well beyond your needs and it doesn't even matter if they hoard all this stuff for other people for there will still be an attachment to the need ..

It really is transparent but as always peeps only see what they want to see .. and some like to pretend they are not attached just like the addicts who say they haven't a problem ..

It can be a very complexed situation when peeps are not honest with themselves ..

Even spiritual folks that get married are attached and identified even if their teachings say otherwise ..

Ask a spiritual teacher why there was the need to get married is all you have to ask ..

Why did you marry her and not her sister or her mother lol ..

Another good one is that one can be addicted / attached and have desires and yet associate them to the supposed false self and not the real self so it doesn't count ..

Which brings me to the reason of my thread in regards to realisations and conclusions .

It's all well and good peeps passing the buck onto their false self for instance so they can feel content with carrying on with having desires and addictions, but where has the realization and the conclusion come from that there is some form of entity that is false that is present .

It could equally be said that there is nothing false present at all and if your were a super duper guru type you wouldn't have any addictions anyway and you wouldn't live in a house full of belongings .

I implore peeps to just simply look at what is concluded and what is realized and see if you can see the difference/s .


x daz x

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by God-Like

You say that you are not your mind or your body, so where does the mind and body fit in with the grand scheme of things .

I hear it often, that I am not my thoughts, well whose thought's do they belong to whose are they?

x daz x

I have a body, I have thoughts. I can feel my body, my senses, I can be aware of my emotions, my thoughts. They are all mine, but they are not me. I have a car. I can drive it, smell it, touch it, think about it, experience various things through owning and using it, but it is not me.

My thoughts are mine. They belong to me. They are a product of the body I inhabit and experience. They are one more thing I experience. But I am not what I experience. Experiences are always changing, my thoughts and emotions come and go. but I do not. I am the awareness that is aware of all of this, that experiences it all.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

In your curiosity I have to ask why does this concept and way people are experiencing themselves have you believe they still are not living in the world in some way?. It’s like you are impressed in their way that they are super human or something?

You might see a few people in the world, checked out and inwardly living through these type of concepts, it’s choice and path, as is choice to be in the world but not of it in other ways. The practice of being no self and expressing ones realisations as such become a point of focus but even so thus too might change or not. We may realize ourselves as something at certain points of our life, but times change as do we..the realisations move one with life as life is and becomes.

I am not sure I follow you here ..

It's none of my business really how people are in their own world .

I don't really care if peeps deny having addictions and pass them off as there is no-one here to be addicted or it's the lower or false self that is ..

I don't care if someone say's there not attached or identified and has 70 million in the bank 6 wives and 10 kids ..

When someone teaches other's with what they preach then it interests me .

For why I am interested is a different story, but suffice enough to say it's part of my vocation ..

If your post didn't relate to my answer, then put it to me in a different way because as said I don't quite follow you ..


x daz x