The meaning of the crucifixion

[Baile]

Originally Posted by markings

Who, or what, would be the great controller of the ego?

I understand the question, and you may be right. But I doubt anyone other than a Buddha or Jesus -- a fully self-realized individual in other words -- has the capacity to truly "kill" or eradicate the ego completely.

I'm a "baby steps" kind of person. I believe one can live a conscious, meaningful, and deeply spiritual life by simply learning meditative, self-reflective techniques that keep the ego in check. That overcoming the worst aspects of ego behaviour doesn't require becoming an ascended master in this lifetime. If anything, it mostly just takes the will and effort to remain a thoughtful person, in all one's interactions with life.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Baile

I understand the question, and you may be right. But I doubt anyone other than a Buddha or Jesus -- a fully self-realized individual in other words -- has the capacity to truly "kill" or eradicate the ego completely.

I'm a "baby steps" kind of person. I believe one can live a conscious, meaningful, and deeply spiritual life by simply learning meditative, self-reflective techniques that keep the ego in check. That overcoming the worst aspects of ego behaviour doesn't require becoming an ascended master in this lifetime. If anything, it mostly just takes the will and effort to remain a thoughtful person, in all one's interactions with life.

My understanding of Buddha's teachings on ego is not to kill it or eradicate it but to see beyond it and glimpse our true nature. Buddhism also teaches that there is a healthy sense of self so the idea of ego as being something to get rid of is not correct. Used skilfully it is beneficial to all sentient beings.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by sky123

to see beyond it and glimpse our true nature. Buddhism also teaches that there is a healthy sense of self

Yes, both of these have been my experiences, exactly. Though I'm not saying I'm a Buddha...

[sky]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes, both of these have been my experiences, exactly. Though I'm not saying I'm a Buddha...

You are most definitely a Buddha as we all are, but we haven't awoken to this realization.... yet

[Baile]

Originally Posted by sky123

You are most definitely a Buddha as we all are, but we haven't awoken to this realization.... yet

Yes thank you. That is such a concise way of putting it, an incredibly powerful affirmation. And you know, I don't know if I have ever truly grasped it that way before this moment. We already are Buddha and Jesus. We just haven't woken up to it fully. Amazing clarity. Thanks again sky, that made my day.

[markings]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddhism also teaches that there is a healthy sense of self ... [snip]

True, but that is based on a body self, not a mental self. There is a huge difference between the two.
The one is self-esteem based on one's physical existence. The other is self-esteem based on one's thoughts. The first in is solid and relatively unchanging, the second one is insubstantial and very fickle.

[sky]

Originally Posted by markings

True, but that is based on a body self, not a mental self. There is a huge difference between the two.
The one is self-esteem based on one's physical existence. The other is self-esteem based on one's thoughts. The first in is solid and relatively unchanging, the second one is insubstantial and very fickle.

It is based on body and mind. In Buddhism the oneness of body and mind is really important.

[markings]

Originally Posted by sky123

It is based on body and mind. In Buddhism the oneness of body and mind is really important.

... and body comes before mind because without body there is no mind.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by markings

... and body comes before mind because without body there is no mind.

You certainly are hanging onto your "kill the ego" claim, at all costs. I think we can all agree that spiritual growth progression requires that the ego "be put to bed" so to speak, and can leave it at that.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Baile

You certainly are hanging onto your "kill the ego" claim, at all costs. I think we can all agree that spiritual growth progression requires that the ego "be put to bed" so to speak, and can leave it at that.

Well, then let's leave aside a whole body of knowledge and not so recent realizations in psychology which are about the importance of the body-self and how it is an error to base one's self-esteem oh the mental ego-self.

A Tibetan Lama says that unlike Western people Eastern one's have far less self-esteem issues, and he attributes it to what I wrote above. Body self versus mental self.