Observation

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

Maybe you are aiming at creating an extra-sphere where extra contrived methods apply ... a view that works in isolation from everyday life. Something 'spiritual' opposed to non-spiritual.

As I said to NF:

Originally Posted by gem

Sometimes, I think, spirituality gets away and become a separate thing to the everyday and mundane, but I don't think that is a good idea because it leads to people chasing the 'spectacular' which is a distraction from what is the case right here and now... to me, spirituality is nothing more that the awareness of what is as you experience it to be - which is the case anyway.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

As I said to NF:

Sometimes, I think, spirituality gets away and become a separate thing to the everyday and mundane, but I don't think that is a good idea because it leads to people chasing the 'spectacular' which is a distraction from what is the case right here and now... to me, spirituality is nothing more that the awareness of what is as you experience it to be - which is the case anyway.

you also said:

Originally Posted by Gem

...
... and I'm now repeating what I did say earlier on, but be conscious and aware of what you're doing. I'm now the example of how one can become distracted and become less mindful of what they do. But I am also the example of noticing that distraction and returning to conscious self awareness. ...

This extra sphere you don't want to get distracted from and you return to if distraction occurs is your meditation object. Therefore the intention of your thread is buddhist meditation.
Of course such an extra sphere can be created if the meditation instruction is followed ... but only temporarily as with all kinds of meditation. It's kind of 'vacation for ordinary mind'. There is nothing to say against vacation, isn't it?

your intention to not be distracted 'from what is the case right here and now' is your concentration on and shows that what has been said as to the incompatibility of the ground of being as awareness and meditation is correct from the perspective of awareness.

This intention to 'not be distracted from' is this 'frame of reference' which is characteristic for contrived meditation and it is identical with subtle 'acceptance and rejection' being active. Therefore meditation - which you call 'observation' in this thread - is necessarily the province of ordinary mind but not the province of the ground of being as awareness. And since this is so what naturally is empty can be intentionally 'filled' with metta temporarily by ordinary mind thus confusing naturally lucid emptiness with metta. This confusion and the meditative concentration involved however entail instability.

"He discerns that 'This ... concentration of awareness is fabricated & mentally fashioned.' And he discerns that 'Whatever is fabricated & mentally fashioned is inconstant & subject to cessation.' MN121

[Gem]

oops double post

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

you also said:


This extra sphere you don't want to get distracted from and you return to if distraction occurs is your meditation object. Therefore the intention of your thread is buddhist meditation.
Of course such an extra sphere can be created if the meditation instruction is followed ... but only temporarily as with all kinds of meditation. It's kind of 'vacation for ordinary mind'. There is nothing to say against vacation, isn't it?

Er... I didn't day anything about meditation instruction.

your intention to not be distracted 'from what is the case right here and now' is your concentration on and shows that what has been said as to the incompatibility of the ground of being as awareness and meditation is correct from the perspective of awareness.

Where and when is 'Ground of being' if not here and now?.

This intention to 'not be distracted from' is this 'frame of reference' which is characteristic for contrived meditation and it is identical with subtle 'acceptance and rejection' being active. Therefore meditation - which you call 'observation' in this thread - is necessarily the province of ordinary mind but not the province of the ground of being as awareness. And since this is so what naturally is empty can be intentionally 'filled' with metta temporarily by ordinary mind thus confusing naturally lucid emptiness with metta. This confusion and the meditative concentration involved however entail instability.

I'm talking about things which are here, like awareness and attention. I talk about 'pure observation' in the context of conscious awareness with equanimity. Awareness with equanimity is the 'right meditation'.

I have attempted to explain that Metta is something like pure love radiating through the open heart from the essence of our being.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

Er... I didn't day anything about meditation instruction.

you don't have to call 'meditation instruction' the intention to not be distracted from an object for it to be just that.

Originally Posted by Gem

Where and when is 'Ground of being' if not here and now?.

As I said it is about the intention to not be distracted 'from what is the case right here and now' that is concentration on.
The ground of being never has been existing as anything and can neither be identified nor spacio-temporally localized.

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm talking about things which are here, like awareness and attention. I talk about 'pure observation' in the context of conscious awareness with equanimity. Awareness with equanimity is the 'right meditation'.

yes, there is a buddhist view of mindfulness that expressed mindfulness this way. The other competing buddhist view of mindfulness is more into interpreting objects of observation. But the decisive point in both cases is the frame of reference of observation.

Originally Posted by Gem

I have attempted to explain that Metta is something like pure love radiating through the open heart from the essence of our being.

No problem. you can cultivate and express the view which appears appropriate to you.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

you don't have to call 'meditation instruction' the intention to not be distracted from an object for it to be just that.

I only suggested to be aware of distractions as they occur.

As I said it is about the intention to not be distracted 'from what is the case right here and now'

Being aware here and now is only impeded by said distractions.

that is concentration on.

The undistracted mind is the concentrated mind. One doesn't have to concentrate on. Just be aware of distractions (or whatever is going on).

The ground of being never has been existing as anything and can neither be identified nor spacio-temporally localized.

It's not of past memory nor of future imagination.

yes, there is a buddhist view of mindfulness that expressed mindfulness this way. The other competing buddhist view of mindfulness is more into interpreting objects of observation. But the decisive point in both cases is the frame of reference of observation.

I'm saying observation is the case anyway, so in that regard, there's nothing to do. If one is 'interpreting objects', that is observed to be.

No problem. you can cultivate and express the view which appears appropriate to you.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

I only suggested to be aware of distractions as they occur.

yes and I say that distractions are impossible and therefore the intention to be aware of distractions is the sphere of 'lower paths' or ordinary mind.

Once one has been directly introduced to awareness it is impossible to get distracted from it. Ordinary mind is deprived of its own sphere after direct introduction has happened because it appears as awareness' own manifestation and therefore its objects naturally lack inherent existence and truth and are beyond ordinary mind's province.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

yes and I say that distractions are impossible

It seems to me that people for the most part are quite highly distracted.

and therefore the intention to be aware of distractions is the sphere of 'lower paths' or ordinary mind.

Once one has been directly introduced to awareness it is impossible to get distracted from it. Ordinary mind is deprived of its own sphere after direct introduction has happened because it appears as awareness' own manifestation and therefore its objects naturally lack inherent existence and truth and are beyond ordinary mind's province.

This implies that some people, and I would say a majority of people, are before 'direct introduction'.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

It seems to me that people for the most part are quite highly distracted.

That would be a good start to investigate into what it is that 'seems' [to you].

Originally Posted by Gem

This implies that some people, and I would say a majority of people, are before 'direct introduction'.

Can't synthesize a rational meaning based on these words of yours.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

Ordinary mind is deprived of its own sphere after direct introduction

You say 'after direct introduction', so I inferred there is a 'before direct introduction'.