Forgiveness

Originally Posted by Uma

I believe in karma and I know that if I can forgive, I create good karma, while the other person who is not asking to be forgiven, is creating their own bad karma. That, at least, helps me feel some compassion for them. Knowing that justice will be served helps.

As far as I know you help the other person too when you forgive them.

Uma, the fact that you added "Knowing that justice will be served helps" to me means that some part of you did not forgive.

[Uma]

Originally Posted by Bluegreen

As far as I know you help the other person too when you forgive them.

Uma, the fact that you added "Knowing that justice will be served helps" to me means that some part of you did not forgive.

What I mean is I can forgive the person but not condone their actions. Karma creates consequences for the actions. it helps me because it removes the burden from me. Life will correct imbalances. and it helps me emotionally because justice is an important principle in our universe. How else are we to learn to act wisely not foolishly?

Christ said to turn the other cheek. I interpret this as fearless noncooperation. in life this is easier said than done. And if one's life is threatened it isn't an appropriate reaction. I think there could be such a thing as foolish forgiveness and wise forgiveness. Christ is famous for His words on the cross "Father forgive them they know not what they do.". at the same time he lost His temper or made a dramatic point when He threw out the marketers from the temple.

So the heart forgives always in one sense but the head needs to think it through too, at least from where I'm seeing. Forgiveness doesn't have to become a passive exercise but can expand into something proactive, like activism.

what do you think?

Forgiveness is not an act... but rather a process... it takes time... often an entire lifetime... or several lifetimes...

I think people also mistake forgiveness as an act granted to the one forgiven... but it isn't really... the gift of forgiveness is for us... it releases us from the pain... hurt... anger... hatred... suffering... when we forgive, we are set free...

I do beleive there is a spiritual release for the one forgiven... the one who we believe trespassed against us... when we hold vengeful thoughts and anger toward another we also capture a part of their soul... when we forgive them, we release this dark energy the brings our spiritual vibrations down...

When we forgive we release the negative power the event holds over us...

Originally Posted by Uma

What I mean is I can forgive the person but not condone their actions. Agree. Karma creates consequences for the actions. It is a law. it helps me because it removes the burden from me. Life will correct imbalances. and it helps me emotionally because justice is an important principle in our universe. How else are we to learn to act wisely not foolishly?

Do you feel the same way with regard to your children: I forgive them but I am glad there is karma so that they will feel the consequences of their actions?

Christ said to turn the other cheek. I interpret this as fearless noncooperation. in life this is easier said than done. And if one's life is threatened it isn't an appropriate reaction. I think there could be such a thing as foolish forgiveness and wise forgiveness. Not to forgive is not to let go. Christ is famous for His words on the cross "Father forgive them they know not what they do.". at the same time he lost His temper or made a dramatic point when He threw out the marketers from the temple. He did not condone their actions and do you think he did not forgive?

So the heart forgives always in one sense but the head needs to think it through too, at least from where I'm seeing. Forgiveness doesn't have to become a passive exercise but can expand into something proactive, like activism. Could you explain the 'activism' please?

what do you think?

There are people I forgave and hoped there would be no consequences.
There are people I forgave and felt indifferent as to consequences.
Their discomfort/suffering/whatever would not make my life any happier. Thinking that the law of cause and effect will 'teach' them does not make my life any happier.

[peteyzen]

I think , that you cant forgive `a bit`, you have to let it all go. The bit you hang on to is still a corruption in yourself, eating away. Let it all go, take that weight off your shoulders. People do things to or against you in life that arent what you want. Understand that a true appreciation of karma is this: what has happened to you, is your karma returning, you did this to someone in the past, its come back, you ve paid it off, now move on.

[Uma]

Bluegreen, I explained my view as well as I could and I thank Rivendoa and Peteyzen for the reminder that forgiveness is a two way process (to me, "process" and "act" are the same, since every act is linked to karmic processes). Especially as regards to your comments about children and activism, you might want to read Secrets of the Bulletproof Spirit. It was coauthored by the father of a child who was murdered by another child. He was able to forgive because he had a flash of insight - that there were two victims, one on either side of the gun and because he became proactive and involved in activism by bringing society's attention to gangs, guns, disadvantaged children etc...which gave his son's death meaning. Forgiveness is a complex process not just a let go and forget.

Originally Posted by Uma

Bluegreen, I explained my view as well as I could and I thank Rivendoa and Peteyzen for the reminder that forgiveness is a two way process (to me, "process" and "act" are the same, since every act is linked to karmic processes). Especially as regards to your comments about children and activism, you might want to read Secrets of the Bulletproof Spirit. It was coauthored by the father of a child who was murdered by another child. He was able to forgive because he had a flash of insight - that there were two victims, one on either side of the gun and because he became proactive and involved in activism by bringing society's attention to gangs, guns, disadvantaged children etc...which gave his son's death meaning. Forgiveness is a complex process not just a let go and forget.

I agree with both Rivendoa and Peteyzen.
What I wanted to add to my post but did not is that in any kind of relationship there is hurting and being hurt, sometimes unknowingly, sometimes intentionally.
I know that we meet ourselves in life and that people are mirrors which can help us if we pay attention.

The thread is about forgiveness and that is the subject I addressed--not the aftermath.
I am fortunate in that nothing as devastating as losing a loved one the way it happened to the author of the book happened to me. To be honest, I do not know how I would react.

[Gem]

It's funny though, because if you don't forgive someone you hold a grudge, and it's not like you just go 'I'll forgive them now' and somehow it's done just like that.

For me forgiveness follows naturally upon healing as a by-product.

[Triner]

Originally Posted by theophilus

Our consciences tell us that we should do what is right but we need the Bible to tell us which actions are right and which are wrong. If we have been misinformed as to right and wrong our consciences can be deceived into promoting wrong instead of right.

Disagree with this completely. Handing right and wrong over to interpretations of the Bible leads to things like The Inquisition, The Crusades, The Witch Trials and Burnings. All of those were validated using the Bible.

I think we must use our conscience.