Could spiritual teachings cause suffering and sadness?

[UntoldStories]

I just had to get this out of my mind, it’s been something that’s bugged me for a while now, and it has made me feel like a spiritual being not quite being allowed a to have a human experience.

Ever since I was a kid, I’ve had a dream. I knew very early on what I wanted to do with my life, and I’ve always considered myself lucky for that, for having found my life’s purpose so early on. I’ve seen the confusion and desperation in those who haven’t, a sense of feeling lost. Whenever I meet such people who are willing to open up for the more profound and more meaningful conversations, I always find that they try to “fit in.” They listen to what other people think they should do, what society expects them to do, instead of listening to themselves. What they think they should do.

If there is such a thing as a mission here in life, I’ve found mine, and I’m so thankful for it! But I’m still confused…

For years I was stuck in the rat-race. Fuelled by consumerism, brainwashed by media to the point where I couldn’t tell right from wrong anymore until a depression came along and gave me the red pill. Once you see the truth about our western (and soon global) society and what this consumerist lifestyle is doing to us and our planet, you start going the opposite direction. Lately, I’ve been moving towards a much more minimalistic lifestyle. I haven’t got rid of everything though. I still find certain “stuff” of great use, and they give me great joy, but I don’t let the things take control of me. To me, having things isn’t bad, having too many things is bad.

Climate change and taking care of the environment is something I care about, but that doesn’t mean I’ve sold everything I own to go and live like a wild animal in the wilderness. That lifestyle would undoubtedly have the least of an impact on the environment. I was born into western society; this is where I grew up, it’s my home, it’s where my family and friends live. It’s my culture. You can always move and become a part of another culture, but you cannot undo where you come from, which culture you were molded by.

This is where I have a problem with the eastern spiritual teachings being preached in our western culture. I do believe that these eastern cultures and religions possess a great deal of insight and wisdom about the universe and this strange and beautiful gift we call life. However, I also believe that adopting these eastern philosophies while living and operating in western society can in some ways make you miserable.

Why?

To me, following these spiritual teachings has become almost a burden. It's like having a little devil on your shoulder always whispering things like; “you’re doing it wrong, you desire, you can’t have this, you can’t have that, you should do this” etc. I feel “performance anxiety” about how to live my life cause there are so many rules to live by according to these spiritual teachings. I feel trapped. People who are more “spiritually advanced” than me almost brag about how they’ve stopped doing this and that, making me feel ashamed for still doing those things, those things that add value and joy to my life.

My depression led me to this spiritual path, for which I’m forever grateful. I’ve gained a lot of insight into our universe, my life, and my place in all of this. I know I will continue to learn from these ancient philosophies. However, I feel I have to live life my way, cause whenever I do that, when I keep my head down and pursue the things I want in life, that’s when I’m the happiest, even if it means a lot of hard work, suffering, and sacrifices.

I know there’s a secret very few people know about. I've seen glimpses of it while meditating. If this spiritual pursuit was a business, I believe enlightenment would be the most expensive, sought-after product on the shelves. Even though my dream couldn’t be more clear, I sometimes wonder what I want most in life. Do I have to "give up" on my dream to experience enlightenment? Or will I find what I’m looking for while continuing to pursue my dream? Is enlightenment always the end station of the spiritual journey? Why do monks and spiritual gurus give up on having these human experiences to sit and meditate all day? A lot of questions, I know. I might be just as lost as those trying to fit in.

If you’ve read this far, thank you! I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!

//Peace

[shivatar]

All on the spiritual path are still students, even those you consider to be more spiritually advanced than you are still playing the ego game. Only a handful out of billions have surpassed their ego.

If spiritual teachings are a burden to you then you have some faulty understanding somewhere. There is a wrench in your gears. You can feel the pain its causing so sit down and figure out where its at. Get a therapist to help or a spiritual mentor/teacher. reading without a formal training has got the wrench in there, reading without formal training is not going to help it come out. You need help from a master so start looking for one, you'll find them sooner or later. First you'll find a bunch of teachers who are good for right now, but then you'll grow and you'll need a new teacher. that is the normal process.

If you want a bit of honesty, I consider myself to be extremely spiritually advanced yet I choose to indulge in the "dark side" as I call it. I don't feel guilt or shame, I enjoy the dark power and rush of things, however I also accept the karma that will come to me sooner or later as a result. Everything in the universe has dark and light in it, nothing is all light and nothing is destined to be only light and free from darkness. Take it easy on yourself for indulging in the material things that all humans desire, and ignore those people who boast (subtle brag too) about how much material desires they have given up. Who cares about that anyways?!?! I've gained so much spiritual progress without giving up much of anything, so clearly living a totally purified life is not necessary it just makes everything easier and less painful. (My path is the path of pain, not everybody likes that path though).

Reading ancient wisdom is great and all, but there is a healthy limit that ought to be put on it as well. Read wisdom for a period, then go practice and implement it into your life, journal and seek to imrpove it while integrating it. then when you start to stumble too much go back and read more. repeat the process over and over. Dont just read read read, practice, read read read. balance in all things.

Enlightenment is not special at all. Its not expensive or top shelf. And enlightenment is no secret tbh.

Why do you think you need to give up your dream to experience enlightenment?

Don't you know that you already are enlightened? You, and all humans, are simply fooling themselves that they are not enlightened. There is nothing we have to do to feel enlightened or experience it, we only have to remove the layers and find it buried deep within.

Enlightenment is not a destination. In fact life itself has no destination. It is an endless stream that has no beginning or end. That is part of why we can create things so well and bring new realities into being through our work. The story is a never ending story and the ending is unwritten, we write the ending we choose through our actions. Enlightenment is just like life, it is an endless process without a beginning or an end and our actions choose where we go. Its the journey not the destination.

Many monks and gurus don't give up, they turn to a spiritual life when they are dissatisfied with their normal lives. Most have had children or jobs and similar to you face a depression which turns their journey inwards. Very few are raised to be monks or choose to be a monk from childhood.

And IMO they meditate because enlightenment is a very difficult thing to achieve (the state of flowing with the stream of life without letting the mind interrupt it), something that can take between 7 and 70 years. Meditate for 18 hours a day, maybe 7 years. meditate for 20 minutes a day, maybe 70. There is no guarantee because another factor is determination. For a person who is willing to die for enlightenment, their determination will propel them forward decades at a time. For someone just looking for thrills and a spiritual rush it might take 30+ years even if meditating for multiple hours a day.

basically it's easier to acheive enlightenment through the sitting and mediating. also it's just amazing to do that. Monks might have it hard for the first few years but after that it's an amazing, peaceful, blissful, happy existence. Maybe some monks want to achieve enlightenment, but I think most just want to be happy and understand life better. meditation offers that.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

I know I will continue to learn from these ancient philosophies. However, I feel I have to live life my way, cause whenever I do that, when I keep my head down and pursue the things I want in life, that’s when I’m the happiest, even if it means a lot of hard work, suffering, and sacrifices.

It's OK to learn from those Eastern philosophies but you are not them, it's as though you're trying to Live your Life according to someone else's rules. What are the reasons you think Living by those Eastern philosophies will benefit you? The hypocrisy is that if those 'Spiritually advanced' people have stopped doing it they're not Spiritually advanced.

The question is, what does enlightenment mean to you? And what makes you think you aren't? Being Enlightened doesn't mean sitting contemplating your navel all day, you can be just as Enlightened running a business or standing in the supermarket queue.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

However, I feel I have to live life my way, cause whenever I do that, when I keep my head down and pursue the things I want in life, that’s when I’m the happiest, even if it means a lot of hard work, suffering, and sacrifices.

That's your Life's Purpose. If you were meant to sit and meditate all day you'd be in a position to do that, we are where we're meant to be otherwise we'd be somewhere else. I think the reason you're suffering depression is because you have this crazy idea of how Enlightenment can be achieved, but there are as many roads to Enlightenment as there are people to walk them.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

Do I have to "give up" on my dream to experience enlightenment?

Enlightenment will never happen if you are at odds with yourself, but it will flourish when you are at peace.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

Or will I find what I’m looking for while continuing to pursue my dream?

Yes.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

Is enlightenment always the end station of the spiritual journey?

There is no end station and there is no 'Spiritual journey', there is simply your Journey.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

Why do monks and spiritual gurus give up on having these human experiences to sit and meditate all day?

Probably because they want to, because they can.

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

A lot of questions, I know. I might be just as lost as those trying to fit in.

No you're not lost but your head isn't as straight as it could be. Enlightenment isn't about having a headful of Spirituality, it's about knowing yourself and this could be one of the steps for you - knowing that being a monk isn't you and following your dream is. Spirituality is where you find it and there's no reason why you can't find bucket-loads of it by following your dream. You might even find more Spirituality than the monks ever could.

Go Live your Life already.

http://bigthink.com/aeon-ideas/know-...vely-dangerous

[Melahin]

Enlightenment is to know your dream, and live it happily ever after; not to give up on everything the universe abundantly pours into your lab. Let-go-ment comes from people who suffered in life, and have not found a proper way to enjoy life, so they find enjoyment in the simple things, and it is beautiful when it finds the right harmony. If we talk about Eastern philosophy, Tantra "prides" itself to be the teachings of the current age, and it is a way of not loosing yourself in indulgence, one of finding deep joy in every aspect of life... because the material world is the utmost manifestation of spirit, that which it finds most joy in... so maybe that is also where we will find it, if we find that loving, joyful harmony that nature has build into its way of life

Just one perspective on it; others might have equal insightful ways to see the beauty of life Btw. of course you can undo where you come from, which culture you were molded by. Do they not say in Eastern philosophy that belief can move mountains? or something...

What is missing? Maybe asking what is missing might be a cookoo
bird. What makes people happy might need to become adjusted
to maybe something more "cute, formidable, and reachable"

Why cute. because such gets it's way. Why formidable, because
thats undoubtably. Why reachable, because that's got the award

Maybe we just need to get with the program. We
think of Pro positive Thoughts / vibes help us out,
so we go for them more. Isn't that like luncheon

"We are life."

I think spiritual teachings are only as good as how useful they are in driving our individual lives. As I have to survive on the material planet I tend to a pragmatic view of spiritual development. Teachings are useful as sign posts, (for me, nothing more). It's unlikely that I'll experience precisely the same experiences as such a teacher when given a label (such as "suffering" or "bliss"). But I might be able to use guidance to explore. What I needed were techniques that allow me to explore.

Teachers who tell me what I should be believing border on proselytes when I know full-well that my path (any of our paths) are uniquely our own. "Suffering" - I read that word a lot here - is a problem. I want solutions, not problems, so rather than use that word I think of stresses, anxieties perhaps, health issues, physiological issues, creative blocks and a number of things that, ultimate I have to admit I bring on myself most times, so it's up to me to find a solution / resolution.

There are very few spiritual teachings that teach you how to find things out for yourself!
.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I think spiritual teachings are only as good as how useful they are in driving our individual lives. As I have to survive on the material planet I tend to a pragmatic view of spiritual development. Teachings are useful as sign posts, (for me, nothing more). It's unlikely that I'll experience precisely the same experiences as such a teacher when given a label (such as "suffering" or "bliss"). But I might be able to use guidance to explore. What I needed were techniques that allow me to explore.

Teachers who tell me what I should be believing border on proselytes when I know full-well that my path (any of our paths) are uniquely our own. "Suffering" - I read that word a lot here - is a problem. I want solutions, not problems, so rather than use that word I think of stresses, anxieties perhaps, health issues, physiological issues, creative blocks and a number of things that, ultimate I have to admit I bring on myself most times, so it's up to me to find a solution / resolution.

There are very few spiritual teachings that teach you how to find things out for yourself!
.

Aye!

..
ok.

Great!

You're
Great!

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

If you’ve read this far, thank you! I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!

//Peace

Spiritual teachings can be good and helpful, but honestly I've found psychology to be much more powerful and freeing. Finding out what's really going on inside and taking care of ourselves leads to a spirituality with greater substance and depth.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Spiritual teachings can be good and helpful, but honestly I've found psychology to be much more powerful and freeing. Finding out what's really going on inside and taking care of ourselves leads to a spirituality with greater substance and depth.

"Know thyself and thou shalt know God."

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

I just had to get this out of my mind, it’s been something that’s bugged me for a while now, and it has made me feel like a spiritual being not quite being allowed a to have a human experience.

Ever since I was a kid, I’ve had a dream. I knew very early on what I wanted to do with my life, and I’ve always considered myself lucky for that, for having found my life’s purpose so early on. I’ve seen the confusion and desperation in those who haven’t, a sense of feeling lost. Whenever I meet such people who are willing to open up for the more profound and more meaningful conversations, I always find that they try to “fit in.” They listen to what other people think they should do, what society expects them to do, instead of listening to themselves. What they think they should do.

If there is such a thing as a mission here in life, I’ve found mine, and I’m so thankful for it! But I’m still confused…

For years I was stuck in the rat-race. Fuelled by consumerism, brainwashed by media to the point where I couldn’t tell right from wrong anymore until a depression came along and gave me the red pill. Once you see the truth about our western (and soon global) society and what this consumerist lifestyle is doing to us and our planet, you start going the opposite direction. Lately, I’ve been moving towards a much more minimalistic lifestyle. I haven’t got rid of everything though. I still find certain “stuff” of great use, and they give me great joy, but I don’t let the things take control of me. To me, having things isn’t bad, having too many things is bad.

Climate change and taking care of the environment is something I care about, but that doesn’t mean I’ve sold everything I own to go and live like a wild animal in the wilderness. That lifestyle would undoubtedly have the least of an impact on the environment. I was born into western society; this is where I grew up, it’s my home, it’s where my family and friends live. It’s my culture. You can always move and become a part of another culture, but you cannot undo where you come from, which culture you were molded by.

This is where I have a problem with the eastern spiritual teachings being preached in our western culture. I do believe that these eastern cultures and religions possess a great deal of insight and wisdom about the universe and this strange and beautiful gift we call life. However, I also believe that adopting these eastern philosophies while living and operating in western society can in some ways make you miserable.

Why?

To me, following these spiritual teachings has become almost a burden. It's like having a little devil on your shoulder always whispering things like; “you’re doing it wrong, you desire, you can’t have this, you can’t have that, you should do this” etc. I feel “performance anxiety” about how to live my life cause there are so many rules to live by according to these spiritual teachings. I feel trapped. People who are more “spiritually advanced” than me almost brag about how they’ve stopped doing this and that, making me feel ashamed for still doing those things, those things that add value and joy to my life.

My depression led me to this spiritual path, for which I’m forever grateful. I’ve gained a lot of insight into our universe, my life, and my place in all of this. I know I will continue to learn from these ancient philosophies. However, I feel I have to live life my way, cause whenever I do that, when I keep my head down and pursue the things I want in life, that’s when I’m the happiest, even if it means a lot of hard work, suffering, and sacrifices.

I know there’s a secret very few people know about. I've seen glimpses of it while meditating. If this spiritual pursuit was a business, I believe enlightenment would be the most expensive, sought-after product on the shelves. Even though my dream couldn’t be more clear, I sometimes wonder what I want most in life. Do I have to "give up" on my dream to experience enlightenment? Or will I find what I’m looking for while continuing to pursue my dream? Is enlightenment always the end station of the spiritual journey? Why do monks and spiritual gurus give up on having these human experiences to sit and meditate all day? A lot of questions, I know. I might be just as lost as those trying to fit in.

If you’ve read this far, thank you! I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!

//Peace

Hold strong "too".

Cause you're better
than (any every) that.