"every man occupies just that position in society which he is qualified to occupy"

[shivatar]

We shouldn't seek to understand someone elses life. We never can, we can barely scratch the surface. Every individual except enlightened sages struggles with their own identity. The longer a person wrestles with the idea of who they are the more they realize they have no idea, rather they have a feeling, an internal knowing that is beyond words and formal identification.

We can be present with others on the journey of their life. We can be awed by the mystery of them, but we cannot know them in any meaningful way. In fact it's my understanding and belief that when we think we know someone we do them a dis-service. When we let a person consistently reveal theirselves to us, when we give them the space to be whoever they are at that moment and avoid attaching a label or knowledge to them, then we are doing that person the greatest service we can.

--

If someone asks us for help, we ought to help them. That is what the internal guide of all compassionate souls says. It doesn't always say we ought to help them exactly as they asked; it can decline to help if that is the best interest, it can help in an unexpected way too.

When we help a person by being their friend, showing them compassion and giving them the space to be whoever they are. Then we are helping a person, and this requires nothing from us. no action. it comes from a realization that we are connected, at first in the obvious ways, friendship, work, perhaps blood relative. But later becomes easier when we realize we are the same as that other person.

If we are wise and courageous enough, we can seek to help others on the material plane when they ask. It takes courage because fear and doubt will have us believe our help is counterproductive and our intent is not pure. The wisdom that comes from many failed attempts to help others is also essential. When we have both we can help people in a physical or emotional way without being so choked with fear and doubt that the fear and doubt becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

---

it's not wrong to let people carry their own burdens. I love my sister with all my heart but as long as she is alive her childrens upbringing is her burden to bear. It's an easy burden to bear, but it is her responsibility easy or not.

In examining the grand scale of life, we are all here to discover our true existence and identity. The grandest burden of all, self-discovery, is always our individual burden to bear. We can bear it in solitude but be surrounded by people, in fact being surrounded by people helps on the journey to self-discovery. But it is always a solitary journey.

All burdens are individual, unless they involve another person. If we have a shared burden then we ought to help the other person we are bound to. I've had enemies who taught me many great things, I consider them and I to have a shared burden.

[slowsnake]

Hello,
Quote..
... every man occupies just that position in society which he is qualified to occupy . That must be so, or the law of cause and effect would be a failure.Unquote

I totally disagree with this statement!
Every man is born with a certain knowledge/IQ,I could not imagine Albert Einstein being satisfied with doing the most boring but most important of occupations in society, that of the person who removes your garbage every week,so you live in a very sanitary and healthy environment.
So often belittled and degraded,his children also,yet, their father to them is as important a person as the President of the United States of America is to his children.

Imagine if every person born on this planet was smart enough to be a neurosurgeon, or heart surgeon who from birth only thought of one thing,being a doctor,or being a pilot,or being a policeman or fireman or nurse ad infinitum!

Sure you can say that's a persons karma,but I doubt it has anything to do with the laws of cause and effect!
Any individual can rise "above their station" and then progress forward,ever forward,a man of free will, with an IQ that only limits his intelligence or his ability to learn complex mathematics or physics,it does not delay his progress on the path/ladder,his only impediment is "free will" not the law of karma?

Kind Regards Billy.

[Lumin]

I feel the lesson in it is “Strength doesn’t come from what you can do. It comes from overcoming things that you once thought you couldn’t.”-Rikki Rogers

That we aren't alone with what we're learning and coming to understand.

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by baro-san

From Edward C. Randall's 1917 book "The Dead Have Never Died"

I found this quote thought provoking ... If we karmically pay for whatever we think, desire, do, it means that sometimes we have to have unhappy, difficult lives.

Then, trying to better someone else's life, to even out people's conditions and opportunities ... Can it be accomplished? Is it a desirable endeavour? Do we try to interfere in something we don't understand, and in a way that is counterproductive to both the helper and the helpee?

How does "love everybody" figure into this? Just love them, but let them carry their burdens?

I feel that whatever situation we have in life is for the purpose of learning. It is NOT some punishment, and it is NOT some kind of privilege either. It just is. And we have to make of it the best that we can.

I wouldn't particularly like to be the Queen of England. That might seem like some 'exalted' position to hold in life, but in my opinion it is a very hard learning curve for many reasons.
Some people who work checkout in a supermarket have a much gentler life than that.

And one thing will continue to move me tremendously....and that was I heard of an inscription on a wall in one of the concentration camps. Someone had scrawled on the wall: "God please forgive the people who do this to us."
No-one knows who that Soul was who wrote that, or if they survived in their Earth life or not. But whoever it was, was capable of tremendous grace of character even under those circumstances. That Soul has my respect.

I don't think we should be deterministic about what roles we have in life. It's not that we are stuck in a groove here and can't learn. We are always learning. Some people were born in the city slums, with not much food, and learned how to lift themselves out of that, and run businesses, and now live very comfortably (in Earth terms at any rate) But even though such lives might seem based on materialism, they are all learning processes. We all have different learning 'missions' though. Not all of us deeply desire material gain to that extent, but we have other things to work out while we are here.

Kind deeds towards others are always good things. But I do see your point. We should be kind but also need common sense and sometimes a bit of understanding.
Saying to a homeless man begging on the street "I am not going to give you any money because you should go and find a job"....may not be the kindest thing to do. I don't know.
Over-feeding a wild bird because of "kindness" may well be the most un-kind thing to do!
Yet seeing an old person struggling to get their trash out....to ask first then lend a hand, I am sure would be appreciated. And if they say "no thanks" then that has to be their choice.
We have to use intelligence, Heart and instinct as well.

[Armadodecadron]

I have my own version of this "Peter's Principle" that I'm very fond of, and it's something more like every man rises to the point at his capacity for doing wrong fails him.

It reads, going up and right, something along the lines of "EXPLOIT, DECEIVE, EXPLOIT, DECEIVE, EXPLOIT, DECEIVE, THAT ONE FELT KIND OF BAD" - and this is where the fellow stumbles.

It gives us all of the very worst human beings right at the top. This is not coincidentally why men tend to hold the reins of power.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Armadodecadron

EXPLOIT, DECEIVE... It gives us all of the very worst human beings right at the top. This is not coincidentally why men tend to hold the reins of power.

Okay that's a pretty grim outlook; nevertheless if that's what you see, so be it. I'm really replying to your "why men" comment. Everyone, regardless of gender, is capable of their very worst, and capable of deception. And capable of exploitation as well, although I do see the connection to power with that one.

[Armadodecadron]

Of course, of course. I think we understand each other perfectly.

I don't think my version applies very well to social structures outside of those that generally attract individuals wishing to have power over others. A quick glance at, say, American politics right now makes it seem very plausible indeed, while there are plenty of examples in social institutions with less opportunity for malevolence that can actually sometimes feature benevolence at higher tiers.

[Aube Borealis]

Originally Posted by baro-san

From Edward C. Randall's 1917 book "The Dead Have Never Died"

I found this quote thought provoking ... If we karmically pay for whatever we think, desire, do, it means that sometimes we have to have unhappy, difficult lives.

No, there are people who don't deserve it because of short cutting through deceptions, so the trouble he caused the person who deserves it will just bounce back to him.

Originally Posted by baro-san

Then, trying to better someone else's life, to even out people's conditions and opportunities ... Can it be accomplished? Is it a desirable endeavour? Do we try to interfere in something we don't understand, and in a way that is counterproductive to both the helper and the helpee?

Helping someone's condition in life is a good deed but don't just give the fish, also you have to teach them how to fish to make them productive and stand on their own.

Originally Posted by baro-san

How does "love everybody" figure into this? Just love them, but let them carry their burdens?

Their burdens are their tests on how they will deal with it and learn from it, it's just sometimes we need to offer or voluntarily give our guidance to help and support them to carry on.

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Silver

I look back and believe I wasted far too much time trying to make sense of a lot of things.

I'll second that sentiment Silver.

baro-san - As for 'every man occupies just that position in society which he is qualified to occupy' I have a different outlook on this. There are so many people that end up underachievers for various reasons. Perhaps it's lack of education opportunities or limited opportunities for a person to achieve the occupation to which he/she is trained in, for example. The world is very competitive and not every 'qualified' individual gets to be just what he/she wants to be. Or perhaps a person fails to reach societal heights because he/she as a low self esteem or lacks motivation, suffers from depression, etc. I feel there are too many variables in any given individual's life that can affect the paths taken.

[baro-san]

People look at something (e.g. Randall's quote), and each one sees something different, according to their bias, acumen, attention, interest, etc.. In my opinion, some posters took this quote too literally, missing the point its author tried to make.