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  #1  
Old 19-12-2017, 02:13 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Fundamentals of mindful practice 2

Hello

I want to talk about mindfulness on the fundamental level rather than on the level of any particular practice technique because I believe if one understands it fundamentally, they will thereby know how to practice.

I won't concern anyone's experiences because experiences are individualised, and what I mean by 'fundamentals' is that which applies to everyone, universally.

I'll leave this as the intro, and see what someone says, and return later on to say something else.
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  #2  
Old 19-12-2017, 03:34 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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I am reading this a few times pondering what a universal mindful practice might entail for all beings as one host.

I guess for me I have developed a deeper awareness within me that all life is precious, so often I consider life around me in my practice of choice. I feel like now with this open in me, my choices can't revert back to just doing things on a whim, without careful consideration. I am finding in this way, it takes a more mindful deeper dedication to work through the whole picture that I cant help but notice now.

Some people looking into my space, will say, why do you mull over everything, turn over every stone, examine it and then decide things. Once upon a time I didn't. I did things more hastily, more spontaneous without much forward thinking. The me I am now considers everything, mainly because I have opened everything in me to consider through a bigger view of myself and life as one source.

I realized when others ask me about the why I do this, as part of my awareness, I will often open the space I am moving through as a whole in my response, they in their asking, then realize that when your more open to the whole of yourself, nothing is left out outside of yourself. It just moves hand in hand. They then realize why going through the deeper realizations of self leads you to a more mindful practice of living in the world.

I think there is the aspect of loving kindness and compassion that leads me more so now. I don't wish any ill will towards any life around me. That all life deserves to be here and be happy.
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  #3  
Old 19-12-2017, 04:58 AM
Reiki Healing Reiki Healing is offline
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Such a good Post Thank You
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Old 19-12-2017, 06:33 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
I am reading this a few times pondering what a universal mindful practice might entail for all beings as one host.

Well, we probably prefer thinking on individual levels, but I wanted to go under my thought, your thought, and all which is particular to me or you, and go toward the common aspects of our awareness and attention, and although I call these my awareness my attention, I also know other people have this precise same quality.

Quote:
I guess for me I have developed a deeper awareness within me that all life is precious, so often I consider life around me in my practice of choice. I feel like now with this open in me, my choices can't revert back to just doing things on a whim, without careful consideration. I am finding in this way, it takes a more mindful deeper dedication to work through the whole picture that I cant help but notice now.

Excellent, for this careful observation of the mind's thinking processes, and all that senses perceive is instrumental mindfulness. Then we might translate subsequent consideration of it as 'contemplation', I suppose, to 'mull over' carefully, as it were. Still realising that one is in knowing, and aware of the unfolding of said processes.

Quote:
Some people looking into my space, will say, why do you mull over everything, turn over every stone, examine it and then decide things. Once upon a time I didn't. I did things more hastily, more spontaneous without much forward thinking. The me I am now considers everything, mainly because I have opened everything in me to consider through a bigger view of myself and life as one source.

For me, as I look into your space, I see my space, because of that quality which transcends individual personalities that make us unique to that universal quality we have in common. I keep in mind my subject of the thread as the fundamental basis for what we call 'mindfulness', and that is a tricky subject because we don't know what it is apart from its immediate presence, and it's necessary to know mindfulness from the point if its origin, which means we don't start sometime soon, later, but bring the attention here right now - which is to say, not so much to bring it here, but recognise where the attention actually is, which is of course, here now. If we see this 'knowing of the attention', we may be the one in knowing.

I have to be as that one even to speak of such a thing, and a reader who doesn't follow introspectively to notice what I'm referring to, but rather is figuring it out with intellect, can't possibly comprehend the implications, so you see, it only by being mindful in this way that mindfulness is 'known', and there is no other way of learning it. The example is, one can not 'figure out' where the attention exists; only immediately recognise it.

Because the attention is really here we can look into this aspect of truthfulness where by it is impossible to return the attention, and if ardent about what is true, attention is immediately recognisible as being in this moment's immediacy.

It's not an effort of so much work, because where the attention exists is completely obvious at a glance. Hence this practice of a meditation object and the effort to hold it in place is a surface aspect, and the mind wanders off, then you return it, but under that is a simple fact - this is where the attention exists. This isn't for me or you, but it's true of all, and hence I call it 'fundamental'.

So we may examine this surface aspect, as the determination is made, I will focus on breath starting... now... yes the breath is present and doubtless and there is absolute certainty that this is the case. But what exactly is this breath in the experience. It isn't visible so the eye is unaware. It might have a smell to it, but to smell isn't how we know there is breath moving, it's usually quite light and soundless, so we only really know in any continuity it because it is felt as sensation in the body. This now becomes the feel level, which is primal to all the senses, because all senses work through the nervous system, which is the sense of sensations. Hence I say the feel level is most primal to experience.

Do we follow this, the investigation I make this account of? Because it is the only way to understand me, the only way I understand you, to 'turn the stone' as you put it, and discover the truth, that doubtlessness and certainty I am referring to as 'the knowing'.

If we do follow with this introspective way of listening, rather than me being an external voice that knows a bunch of stuff you can learn, we may notice how this mode of introspection is 'finding out' - and we know things in that sense of certainty because we observe in the immediate moment - and there it's nature is revealed.

Now I spoke too long and possibly wasted breath, but my hope is that a reader will get a sense of 'what it is', this attention, and how use it for real lived discovery.

Quote:
I realized when others ask me about the why I do this, as part of my awareness, I will often open the space I am moving through as a whole in my response, they in their asking, then realize that when your more open to the whole of yourself, nothing is left out outside of yourself. It just moves hand in hand. They then realize why going through the deeper realizations of self leads you to a more mindful practice of living in the world.

I think there is the aspect of loving kindness and compassion that leads me more so now. I don't wish any ill will towards any life around me. That all life deserves to be here and be happy.
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  #5  
Old 19-12-2017, 08:48 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, we probably prefer thinking on individual levels, but I wanted to go under my thought, your thought, and all which is particular to me or you, and go toward the common aspects of our awareness and attention, and although I call these my awareness my attention, I also know other people have this precise same quality.

I think I understand now what your conveying more so.. When I read this its like I am not taking in your words but moving deeper into a level of mindful awareness to become it as the listener beyond thought?


Quote:
Excellent, for this careful observation of the mind's thinking processes, and all that senses perceive is instrumental mindfulness. Then we might translate subsequent consideration of it as 'contemplation', I suppose, to 'mull over' carefully, as it were. Still realising that one is in knowing, and aware of the unfolding of said processes.

So do you mean moving from observation of my own processors "aware" into a more contemplative process of all that, meaning where that leads me further into my own process?..If you could expand this I might be able to see the part not "gelling" in your explanation.


Quote:
For me, as I look into your space, I see my space, because of that quality which transcends individual personalities that make us unique to that universal quality we have in common. I keep in mind my subject of the thread as the fundamental basis for what we call 'mindfulness', and that is a tricky subject because we don't know what it is apart from its immediate presence, and it's necessary to know mindfulness from the point if its origin, which means we don't start sometime soon, later, but bring the attention here right now - which is to say, not so much to bring it here, but recognise where the attention actually is, which is of course, here now. If we see this 'knowing of the attention', we may be the one in knowing.

In reading this part, I see the nature of all things we can embody as a presence 'aware'.. It isn't about the act of you as the "doer" but the presence of knowing beyond the mind, that there is no doer (in this case, mindfulness) but the presence you become 'aware' of you being it 'aware' as a presence. When I actually contemplate myself in this way, I realize in the moment of those moments, all bounds fall away I hold in myself. So what is as it is, allows for that universal mindfulness to unfold naturally.
Quote:
I have to be as that one even to speak of such a thing, and a reader who doesn't follow introspectively to notice what I'm referring to, but rather is figuring it out with intellect, can't possibly comprehend the implications, so you see, it only by being mindful in this way that mindfulness is 'known', and there is no other way of learning it. The example is, one can not 'figure out' where the attention exists; only immediately recognise it.

Yes I see. The experience is where you practice what you know. It is why I actually struggle in some of the Buddhist threads, because I can sense and feel through the subtle levels of engagement those who are not moving deeper into the experience of what they are creating threads about. The trap in this way is often if you are not "realized" and in process of realizing the creation your opening up, then the mind entertains itself and others through the intellect and knowing alone. So you have scenes where by.."This is what I know" and it bounces back and forth through the minds view. Not always but most often. So their is a shift as I see this to move into the practice of that enquiry opened, to actually move deeper into a more contemplative experience of your initial enquiry to become the presence aware of all things moving in yourself in the unfolding, more conscious and mindful of what is there in yourself as one engages. Of course on this side of things in myself, I can be a presence aware and be engaged all the same mindful of all that playing out. It supports me to move beyond those points of awareness, and not see them as limitations but a deepening into my own universal mindfulness aware of all life as it is.

Quote:
Because the attention is really here we can look into this aspect of truthfulness where by it is impossible to return the attention, and if ardent about what is true, attention is immediately recognisible as being in this moment's immediacy.

It takes a great deal of introspective mindful practice to move in this way. I have a natural introspective nature so its much easy for me to move and go within when reading words to allow it all to wash over me and open me. Truthfulness is important all the same. If your not willing to face the nature of that mirror in front of you more complete as truth in yourself in the washing over of yourself, it can move you away from what is being shown in those immediate moments, so you lose the practice of foundational mindfulness as it can be as a shared engagement.

Quote:
It's not an effort of so much work, because where the attention exists is completely obvious at a glance. Hence this practice of a meditation object and the effort to hold it in place is a surface aspect, and the mind wanders off, then you return it, but under that is a simple fact - this is where the attention exists. This isn't for me or you, but it's true of all, and hence I call it 'fundamental'.

True, where I am noticing is simply where I am. In this way I am more conscious of being present with what is. I do believe the meditation is the "training" of attention and focus and it becomes an initial process of discovering 'what lays under all that' (the experience of you in all this) In many ways, I see that meditation as you are describing here, is a means to clear the 'self' out of the way to open to an emptiness of presence, aware but without knowing, more being that. Which of course, in turn, allows one to listen more attentively and as a presence open to what is.

Quote:
So we may examine this surface aspect, as the determination is made, I will focus on breath starting... now... yes the breath is present and doubtless and there is absolute certainty that this is the case. But what exactly is this breath in the experience. It isn't visible so the eye is unaware. It might have a smell to it, but to smell isn't how we know there is breath moving, it's usually quite light and soundless, so we only really know in any continuity it because it is felt as sensation in the body. This now becomes the feel level, which is primal to all the senses, because all senses work through the nervous system, which is the sense of sensations. Hence I say the feel level is most primal to experience.
Quote:
Do we follow this, the investigation I make this account of? Because it is the only way to understand me, the only way I understand you, to 'turn the stone' as you put it, and discover the truth, that doubtlessness and certainty I am referring to as 'the knowing'.

Yes it is the only way to understand deeper the nature of others. AS I contemplate your words in my introspective way of listening, I only see and feel truthfulness arise in me, but this is only because we looking into this with a more conscious awareness of how engagement and understanding deeper can be as a shared awareness and experience, that we both know is beyond the mind and intellect. Being on the same page of how one 'enquires' makes life a little easier in regards to how to explore deeper the nature of yourself and life itself.

Quote:
If we do follow with this introspective way of listening, rather than me being an external voice that knows a bunch of stuff you can learn, we may notice how this mode of introspection is 'finding out' - and we know things in that sense of certainty because we observe in the immediate moment - and there it's nature is revealed.

What comes to me reading this part is these lines from the song, 'Solid rock' Your standin on solid rock, Standin on sacred ground..

Quote:
Now I spoke too long and possibly wasted breath, but my hope is that a reader will get a sense of 'what it is', this attention, and how use it for real lived discovery.
__________________
“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #6  
Old 19-12-2017, 11:57 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
I think I understand now what your conveying more so.. When I read this its like I am not taking in your words but moving deeper into a level of mindful awareness to become it as the listener beyond thought?




So do you mean moving from observation of my own processors "aware" into a more contemplative process of all that, meaning where that leads me further into my own process?..If you could expand this I might be able to see the part not "gelling" in your explanation.




In reading this part, I see the nature of all things we can embody as a presence 'aware'.. It isn't about the act of you as the "doer" but the presence of knowing beyond the mind, that there is no doer (in this case, mindfulness) but the presence you become 'aware' of you being it 'aware' as a presence. When I actually contemplate myself in this way, I realize in the moment of those moments, all bounds fall away I hold in myself. So what is as it is, allows for that universal mindfulness to unfold naturally.


Yes I see. The experience is where you practice what you know. It is why I actually struggle in some of the Buddhist threads, because I can sense and feel through the subtle levels of engagement those who are not moving deeper into the experience of what they are creating threads about.


I guess that's the difference between 'knowingness in practice' and 'knowing a bunch of stuff'

Quote:
The trap in this way is often if you are not "realized" and in process of realizing the creation your opening up, then the mind entertains itself and others through the intellect and knowing alone. So you have scenes where by.."This is what I know" and it bounces back and forth through the minds view. Not always but most often. So their is a shift as I see this to move into the practice of that enquiry opened, to actually move deeper into a more contemplative experience of your initial enquiry to become the presence aware of all things moving in yourself in the unfolding, more conscious and mindful of what is there in yourself as one engages.

I know my mind's movements right here, right now, as it happens, without beginning to mindfulness practice, as mindfulness is aware of all beginnings, so I can determine to observe breath, or feel feet, or any other application of it, but I already witness myself making that determination, so this is about that sort common 'knowingness' we already have. And it's not about how to 'practice' mindfulness by beginning soon and ending sometime later. I can't teach anyone how to be aware, how to pay attention. I say 'attend to breath' and you already know how, therefore the ability of mindfulness is already known, and we can utilise breath or feeling or anything else that 'already is' in the practical application of it, all while already knowing that is what we're doing.

The problems such as the ones n Buddhist threads arise because, as Jesus Christ put it, 'they know not what they do'. Not because someone doesn't know 'something'. And I don't know very much, but I do know what going on with me right here right now, and what is mindfulness but that awareness of what is actually going on? I know in the sense that I'm 'aware of'. I know I'm knowing. I know you're knowing. I know knowingness is a universal facet of conscious awareness. Same for everyone.

Quote:
Of course on this side of things in myself, I can be a presence aware and be engaged all the same mindful of all that playing out. It supports me to move beyond those points of awareness, and not see them as limitations but a deepening into my own universal mindfulness aware of all life as it is.

Tru dat!

Quote:
It takes a great deal of introspective mindful practice to move in this way. I have a natural introspective nature so its much easy for me to move and go within when reading words to allow it all to wash over me and open me. Truthfulness is important all the same. If your not willing to face the nature of that mirror in front of you more complete as truth in yourself in the washing over of yourself,

Yes, I see the difficulty in that, and none of us have it easy.

Quote:
it can move you away from what is being shown in those immediate moments, so you lose the practice of foundational mindfulness as it can be as a shared engagement.

Yes, the underlying nature of distraction comes from deeper places which we may not be fully aware... so the practical formal sitting allows more concentrated and deliberate deeper awareness throughout the mind/body lifeform, but to me, to tell people 'how to meditate' won't work, because first of all I'll have to be an expert on meditation, and second, the person will simply obey my authority and have no real purpose for the endeavour.

But this thread is a teaching of sorts, but not a conveyance of knowledge, so there won't be a lecture on the jhanas or anything like that, no great expose on emptiness... I'm discussing something more subtle which actually requires present attention. It requires my present attention to say it and others' present attention to understand it, and if we just follow along, not to learn from it, as there is no information here, not to agree with it because there is no information with which to agree, but just follow along, meditation will be there and you be like, 'it's this'. I figure because I'm here where consciuos awareness exists, as are we all, following along can only lead here, so this is entirely different and unusual - it doesn't take on the typical dialectic structure. That past linguistic convention is useless because this is entirely new. It won't fit any paradigm because it can not be constructed in 'something' we know, as knowingness itself, 'the awareness of this', This immediate knowing we have in awareness, is a mystery without answer - to which no one could possibly disagree or even agree, as we will see the mind agreeing or disagreeing, and be there before we do thsat agreeing or disagreeing we do, as the one aware of what we do.

Quote:
True, where I am noticing is simply where I am. In this way I am more conscious of being present with what is. I do believe the meditation is the "training" of attention and focus and it becomes an initial process of discovering 'what lays under all that' (the experience of you in all this) In many ways, I see that meditation as you are describing here, is a means to clear the 'self' out of the way to open to an emptiness of presence, aware but without knowing, more being that. Which of course, in turn, allows one to listen more attentively and as a presence open to what is.

Yes, but I'm talking abut meditation not as something you learn to do, but something you discover instantly, and all this about 'knowingness' is aimed to the instant realisation, 'I am here knowing' is completely obvious to anyone as if they already knew it.

Well, we get to this immediate awareness in knowing and what arises next? And in the arising of something, some small anguish over an uncomfortable sensation, and where goes that same presence of awareness? - We tend to get lost very quickly in the automation of our condition, don't we? Become quite unaware of this 'present knowingness' in our distraction, and then we 'know not what we do', as Jesus Christ would put it.

And when I mention this, can we see how true it is of ourselves? Do we see the contrast between that moment when we were like 'I'm presently aware' compared to the distraction of such an awareness? Yet immediatly upon recognising that loss of attention, you are again the one aware - knowing you are distracted, and therefore not distracted, but the knower of distraction. But then what? Judgement arises, 'OMG I am so unaware, easily distracted', and from such judgment self depreciation, disappointment and so forth, and thus revealed is the real internal psychological condition. Like, 'so this is what I do and have been doing all this time'.

In Buddhist terms, it's the first noble truth, there is suffering. Not all that nonsense about birth, illness, old age, death, which is only mindless repetition of a stupid religious text - but the actuality of the lived condition as it arises to ourselves, but from now on, having actuallt has insight ito your self making of these miseries, perhaps with a more carefully attention in our slightly deeper self awareness and some inkling of responsibility for yourself. If this rather small discovery piques the interest in the actual truth of your or my condition, not the imaginary condition we want, but in the truth of our actual lived condition as it actually is is, how relentless we will become in constant mindfulness.

Quote:
Yes it is the only way to understand deeper the nature of others. AS I contemplate your words in my introspective way of listening, I only see and feel truthfulness arise in me, but this is only because we looking into this with a more conscious awareness of how engagement and understanding deeper can be as a shared awareness and experience, that we both know is beyond the mind and intellect. Being on the same page of how one 'enquires' makes life a little easier in regards to how to explore deeper the nature of yourself and life itself.


Yes indeedy, because I follow this in exploration myself, I don't turn up here with something I knew before. It isn't read, looked up, pre-thought or other type of repetition. It's just the way I live it. It's expression here is motivated by my wish for the benefit of all beings (me included of course), and I try not to make it so much about me (though on the inside I am aware that I do).

Quote:
What comes to me reading this part is these lines from the song, 'Solid rock' Your standin on solid rock, Standin on sacred ground..

Great aussie classic.
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  #7  
Old 24-12-2017, 08:22 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I guess that's the difference between 'knowingness in practice' and 'knowing a bunch of stuff'

Yes that would fit the picture.

Quote:

I know my mind's movements right here, right now, as it happens, without beginning to mindfulness practice, as mindfulness is aware of all beginnings, so I can determine to observe breath, or feel feet, or any other application of it, but I already witness myself making that determination, so this is about that sort common 'knowingness' we already have. And it's not about how to 'practice' mindfulness by beginning soon and ending sometime later. I can't teach anyone how to be aware, how to pay attention. I say 'attend to breath' and you already know how, therefore the ability of mindfulness is already known, and we can utilise breath or feeling or anything else that 'already is' in the practical application of it, all while already knowing that is what we're doing.

Yes I see now what you mean. The paying attention you mention is important. In this day and age of busy lives and external distractions, it can be a difficult task for many. Just of late when tending to others in support of their process, I usually remind them to be conscious of their breath, or take a few deep breaths to bring their awareness back into the body. Simple but profound it can be.

Quote:
The problems such as the ones n Buddhist threads arise because, as Jesus Christ put it, 'they know not what they do'. Not because someone doesn't know 'something'. And I don't know very much, but I do know what going on with me right here right now, and what is mindfulness but that awareness of what is actually going on? I know in the sense that I'm 'aware of'. I know I'm knowing. I know you're knowing. I know knowingness is a universal facet of conscious awareness. Same for everyone.

Yes I understand, being aware of yourself as the one knowing and relating as the whole expression, can be tricky if your not aware of what is going on in you in this way. I guess for myself, I have always been someone to see myself even when I might not. There have been delays in the past when I wasn't fully open to see and feel, stay more present with myself. I cant avoid myself now, my awareness keeps me in check consistently. Its near impossible for me to do so, because what I don't see, my awareness will bring out to show me quite fast. I open fast to it and move it fast now, just by being present with whatever it is revealing itself to me.


Quote:

Yes, the underlying nature of distraction comes from deeper places which we may not be fully aware... so the practical formal sitting allows more concentrated and deliberate deeper awareness throughout the mind/body lifeform, but to me, to tell people 'how to meditate' won't work, because first of all I'll have to be an expert on meditation, and second, the person will simply obey my authority and have no real purpose for the endeavour.

I guess if people were to spend more time alone in places where quiet and stillness are present, it would be easier to listen and tend to the self more consciously aware. Lately I have been walking the hills in the morning then taking myself to a nice nature spot and just listening to my bodies needs. Sometimes I might lay down on the grass and look up at the sky, sometimes I might sit next to a tree, close my eyes and just be present with myself and nature in this way. I am trying to make it daily practice. I see now in myself nature has become a necessity for me. Bush walks or nature walks in places where life is still and quiet, helps immensely, taking my shoes off and grounding on the earth. It is all I need really.

Quote:
But this thread is a teaching of sorts, but not a conveyance of knowledge, so there won't be a lecture on the jhanas or anything like that, no great expose on emptiness... I'm discussing something more subtle which actually requires present attention. It requires my present attention to say it and others' present attention to understand it, and if we just follow along, not to learn from it, as there is no information here, not to agree with it because there is no information with which to agree, but just follow along, meditation will be there and you be like, 'it's this'. I figure because I'm here where consciuos awareness exists, as are we all, following along can only lead here, so this is entirely different and unusual - it doesn't take on the typical dialectic structure. That past linguistic convention is useless because this is entirely new. It won't fit any paradigm because it can not be constructed in 'something' we know, as knowingness itself, 'the awareness of this', This immediate knowing we have in awareness, is a mystery without answer - to which no one could possibly disagree or even agree, as we will see the mind agreeing or disagreeing, and be there before we do thsat agreeing or disagreeing we do, as the one aware of what we do.



Quote:

Yes, but I'm talking abut meditation not as something you learn to do, but something you discover instantly, and all this about 'knowingness' is aimed to the instant realisation, 'I am here knowing' is completely obvious to anyone as if they already knew it.

Well, we get to this immediate awareness in knowing and what arises next? And in the arising of something, some small anguish over an uncomfortable sensation, and where goes that same presence of awareness? - We tend to get lost very quickly in the automation of our condition, don't we? Become quite unaware of this 'present knowingness' in our distraction, and then we 'know not what we do', as Jesus Christ would put it.

And when I mention this, can we see how true it is of ourselves? Do we see the contrast between that moment when we were like 'I'm presently aware' compared to the distraction of such an awareness? Yet immediatly upon recognising that loss of attention, you are again the one aware - knowing you are distracted, and therefore not distracted, but the knower of distraction. But then what? Judgement arises, 'OMG I am so unaware, easily distracted', and from such judgment self depreciation, disappointment and so forth, and thus revealed is the real internal psychological condition. Like, 'so this is what I do and have been doing all this time'.

In Buddhist terms, it's the first noble truth, there is suffering. Not all that nonsense about birth, illness, old age, death, which is only mindless repetition of a stupid religious text - but the actuality of the lived condition as it arises to ourselves, but from now on, having actuallt has insight ito your self making of these miseries, perhaps with a more carefully attention in our slightly deeper self awareness and some inkling of responsibility for yourself. If this rather small discovery piques the interest in the actual truth of your or my condition, not the imaginary condition we want, but in the truth of our actual lived condition as it actually is is, how relentless we will become in constant mindfulness.

Bravo.



Quote:
Yes indeedy, because I follow this in exploration myself, I don't turn up here with something I knew before. It isn't read, looked up, pre-thought or other type of repetition. It's just the way I live it. It's expression here is motivated by my wish for the benefit of all beings (me included of course), and I try not to make it so much about me (though on the inside I am aware that I do).


Great aussie classic.

I get it. In this view your showing its a moment to moment awareness of what is moving as it is here and now. So it will be what it will be. I am so forgetful it would be pointless me coming prepared..lol
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Old 24-12-2017, 12:45 PM
Lorelyen
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Blimey, it's going to take some mindfulness to wade through the dialogue here. With the people involved many wisdoms are no doubt hidden. I'll have to take it slow and carefully. It would be nice if quoting was nested but it isn't!

It would seem that the fundamentals of mindfulness are effectively keep aware and learn how to focus consciousness but....
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  #9  
Old 26-12-2017, 03:06 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by naturesflow
Yes that would fit the picture.



Yes I see now what you mean. The paying attention you mention is important. In this day and age of busy lives and external distractions, it can be a difficult task for many. Just of late when tending to others in support of their process, I usually remind them to be conscious of their breath, or take a few deep breaths to bring their awareness back into the body. Simple but profound it can be.

Indeed, it is good to notice when we are 'off', but no way to bring about that noticing, so in the sudden moment of realisation, we can be aware of the sensation of our breathing so the attention remains here with what is.

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Yes I understand, being aware of yourself as the one knowing and relating as the whole expression, can be tricky if your not aware of what is going on in you in this way. I guess for myself, I have always been someone to see myself even when I might not. There have been delays in the past when I wasn't fully open to see and feel, stay more present with myself. I cant avoid myself now, my awareness keeps me in check consistently. Its near impossible for me to do so, because what I don't see, my awareness will bring out to show me quite fast. I open fast to it and move it fast now, just by being present with whatever it is revealing itself to me.

Yes, it is very fast, instantaneous, and we can not bring this 'noticing' in an intentional way. We may move the attention to breath, for example, only after the initial noticing of the mind's distraction, when we see, 'the mind is now distracted'. If we meditate on breath for example, the mind wanders off, and we are not aware it did so, and at some stage a sudden noticing, 'I see I wandered away', but there is no intention to wander off, and no intention to notice one has done so.

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I guess if people were to spend more time alone in places where quiet and stillness are present, it would be easier to listen and tend to the self more consciously aware. Lately I have been walking the hills in the morning then taking myself to a nice nature spot and just listening to my bodies needs. Sometimes I might lay down on the grass and look up at the sky, sometimes I might sit next to a tree, close my eyes and just be present with myself and nature in this way. I am trying to make it daily practice. I see now in myself nature has become a necessity for me. Bush walks or nature walks in places where life is still and quiet, helps immensely, taking my shoes off and grounding on the earth. It is all I need really.

Sounds like the plan - get away from people talking is always best for listening, as the listener...







Quote:
Bravo.





I get it. In this view your showing its a moment to moment awareness of what is moving as it is here and now. So it will be what it will be. I am so forgetful it would be pointless me coming prepared..lol

Preparation in the formation of something which is known is not a way to talk about the subject - as that attempt to form knowledge is in reference to the past - so the mind has already wandered off to recall things - but we find when speaking from this moment of knowings, things from the memory come in as they are required, and I need not pre-organise these.
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Old 26-12-2017, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lorelyen
Blimey, it's going to take some mindfulness to wade through the dialogue here. With the people involved many wisdoms are no doubt hidden. I'll have to take it slow and carefully. It would be nice if quoting was nested but it isn't!

It would seem that the fundamentals of mindfulness are effectively keep aware and learn how to focus consciousness but....

I does require mindfulness, which is self awareness, to know what affect you feel in the flow of momentary awareness, yet not to wade in the intellectual sense as one would in critical analysis, but rather, to be before analysis if analysis is indeed the experience as the one aware of the minds analytical process, and not to attempt to stifle that process under some idealism that meditation can't be practiced because of analytical thinking, but in the current knowing of the movement in that process.

We would then engage on a different level that is usual, as the knowers of the mind, and not in the common ways of 'knowing not what we do'.
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