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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #21  
Old 17-11-2018, 03:22 PM
Gracey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
When you dream (regular, prophetic, lucid) you focus / project onto your own individual slice of the imagination plane. Over there, any stimuli you get from whatever plane are materialized according to your beliefs. You don't perceive the "real thing", but something subjective that can make sense to you, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as you keep it mind (actually there is nothing wrong with that either way).

The imagination plane isn't the same one with the plane we project / focus on when we go into afterlife. Any messages from the afterlife are dressed up on the imagination plane according to our individual beliefs (including fears).

As far as I know there are no "real" hell and heaven, but many of us will experience them for a while when we'll pass away. They'll be whatever you deeply believe, or fear ...




when you talk about imagination, i think of a book i am currently reading by Rudolph Steiner. it is called the higher stages of knowledge. i am not done with it yet. Have you read that book?


when i dream of the future, it is exactly as how it happens, people, scenarios, all of it. once in a blue moon my own emotions and or thoughts creep in and i dont see things clearly, resulting in symbols. most times, i am an observer with no ideas or emotions of my own layering the dream.



i once went through a process of trying to interfere and save people lives in the dreams, but it never worked, i learned that it is not my place to do so or within my capabilities. all of my dreams are recorded in journals. i am currently putting the ones that came true on digital for a book for my kids. so far i have 422 that have came to pass and i still have 11 years worth of journals to go through to see what has come to pass. i am learning different things in the process, in going through them. Lately, I am not dreaming of the future as much as I use to. I keep dreaming of history, old gods, events and so forth. i hated history as a child and failed it in school. i guess i just needed to learn my way. hehe. it is neat to dream of history, having no idea about until you dream it and then spend hours researching that event and validating all that you dreamt, learning. the last person i dreamt about was st. servatius. i heard his name and then was shown his life. i never heard of him before the dream. so that morning, i researched and learned what i dreamt is what his life story was.
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  #22  
Old 17-11-2018, 04:45 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracey
I don't personally however believe I could experience that constant state of joy in causing harm to others, but do not shut the door to the idea that others could and do find a permanent joy in harming others.
Any notion of a 'permanent' state pertianing to personal 'being' is an illusory projection, I think. “No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.” (Heraclitis)

To 'empathize' with such a state of 'joy', you would have have to 'transcend' your present persona enough to be able to psychospiritually 'i'dentify with being, say, a carniverous 'dinosaur'.

My understanding of the 'evolutionary' history of souls is that 'young' souls (have to?) go through a period of being 'power' adoring (enjoying?) - on their way to becoming 'love' adoring and enjoying. What you regard as their 'joyous hell' is really just a 'reflection' of how you relate (or fail to relate to) to their immaturity, I think.

I remember (with some 'revulsion' and 'shame', now) being a 'kid' who enjoyed (yikes) torturing 'insects' - like scorpions and once, even a bunch of furry caterpillars during an infestation, with flames.

(Carniverous) dinosaurian 'spirits' (souls) aren't really in some objective kind of 'hell'. They 'enjoyed' being how they were and doing what they did - to them that was LIVING their 'dream'! And to the extent that their souls still bounce on some astral plane, I imagine, they still enjoy doing so so now. They are just in a 'place' (or 'state') which you would experience as being utterly 'hellish' because of how (or where) you are, psychospiritually speaking, now.

A lot of 'young' (immature) i.e. souls experience said 'state' as a 'wonderful' LIFE state though in todays' world context only the boldest and most defiant (in relation to others) of them behave accordingly by actually going 'there', I think. They just enjoy having sadistic 'fantasies' and playing 'video game' - doing so 'vicariously' in other words.

These are my speculations pertaining to the above matter, at least.
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  #23  
Old 17-11-2018, 04:50 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracey
when you talk about imagination, i think of a book i am currently reading by Rudolph Steiner. it is called the higher stages of knowledge. i am not done with it yet. Have you read that book?


when i dream of the future, it is exactly as how it happens, people, scenarios, all of it. once in a blue moon my own emotions and or thoughts creep in and i dont see things clearly, resulting in symbols. most times, i am an observer with no ideas or emotions of my own layering the dream.



i once went through a process of trying to interfere and save people lives in the dreams, but it never worked, i learned that it is not my place to do so or within my capabilities. all of my dreams are recorded in journals. i am currently putting the ones that came true on digital for a book for my kids. so far i have 422 that have came to pass and i still have 11 years worth of journals to go through to see what has come to pass. i am learning different things in the process, in going through them. Lately, I am not dreaming of the future as much as I use to. I keep dreaming of history, old gods, events and so forth. i hated history as a child and failed it in school. i guess i just needed to learn my way. hehe. it is neat to dream of history, having no idea about until you dream it and then spend hours researching that event and validating all that you dreamt, learning. the last person i dreamt about was st. servatius. i heard his name and then was shown his life. i never heard of him before the dream. so that morning, i researched and learned what i dreamt is what his life story was.

Nice skill you have ... Congratulations!

I've read some of Rudolph Steiner's books several years ago. I enjoyed his writings. Smart guy! "imagination, inspiration, intuition"

I believe that you perceive reflections of reality, and that explains why you can't change anything in the past. You also see reflections of the probable future, which you can change it. It seems that even what we remember it is actually remembering our last time remembering it, not the actual events.

The idea of "there is no time" / "time is an illusion" is a misinterpretation of the fact that from the non-physical you can focus (observe) anywhere in time (past and future). On the other hand "we create our own realities" according to our beliefs and emotions. Which means that we can peek into the probable future, we may decide to create something different, and do so. That's why some prophecies fail. Prophecies about a future event change in time.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #24  
Old 17-11-2018, 05:10 PM
Gracey
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Any notion of a 'permanent' state pertianing to personal 'being' is an illusory projection, I think. “No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.” (Heraclitis)

To 'empathize' with such a state of 'joy', you would have have to 'transcend' your present persona enough to be able to psychospiritually 'i'dentify with being, say, a carniverous 'dinosaur'.

My understanding of the 'evolutionary' history of souls is that 'young' souls (have to?) go through a period of being 'power' adoring (enjoying?) - on their way to becoming 'love' adoring and enjoying. What you regard as their 'joyous hell' is really just a 'reflection' of how you relate (or fail to relate to) to their immaturity, I think.

I remember (with some 'revulsion' and 'shame', now) being a 'kid' who enjoyed (yikes) torturing 'insects' - like scorpions and once, even a bunch of furry caterpillars during an infestation, with flames.

(Carniverous) dinosaurian 'spirits' (souls) aren't really in some objective kind of 'hell'. They 'enjoyed' being how they were and doing what they did - to them that was LIVING their 'dream'! And to the extent that their souls still bounce on some astral plane, I imagine, they still enjoy doing so so now. They are just in a 'place' (or 'state') which you would experience as being utterly 'hellish' because of how (or where) you are, psychospiritually speaking, now.

A lot of 'young' (immature) i.e. souls experience said 'state' as a 'wonderful' LIFE state though in todays' world context only the boldest and most defiant (in relation to others) of them behave accordingly by actually going 'there', I think. They just enjoy having sadistic 'fantasies' and playing 'video game' - doing so 'vicariously' in other words.

These are my speculations pertaining to the above matter, at least.


okay, you putting it this way makes perfect sense. a dino being a dino. Thank you. a few years ago, i actually saw a dinosaur roaming around in my area (on a different dimension, plane of existence, what ever ya wanna call it.) it was quite the thing to see. another time, i dreamt about meeting a prehistoric ground sloth in the woods of the mountain i grew up in. all i can saw is wow! it was an honor to me.



i admit, when i was young one of my parents told me that if you put salt on a slug it will turn green, so i tired it and it did. that was the end of my experiments on killing bugs. my curious cat mind was satisfied.
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  #25  
Old 17-11-2018, 05:23 PM
Gracey
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Nice skill you have ... Congratulations!

I've read some of Rudolph Steiner's books several years ago. I enjoyed his writings. Smart guy! "imagination, inspiration, intuition"

I believe that you perceive reflections of reality, and that explains why you can't change anything in the past. You also see reflections of the probable future, which you can change it. It seems that even what we remember it is actually remembering our last time remembering it, not the actual events.

The idea of "there is no time" / "time is an illusion" is a misinterpretation of the fact that from the non-physical you can focus (observe) anywhere in time (past and future). On the other hand "we create our own realities" according to our beliefs and emotions. Which means that we can peek into the probable future, we may decide to create something different, and do so. That's why some prophecies fail. Prophecies about a future event change in time.




because of the way i dream, i have researched for many years on theories of time and created some of my own. and my perceptions of has changed over the years in a variety of ways. currently, i stand with Hinduism who believes that all of time is happening now, the past, present and future. and there are ways to access different pinpoints in time. i see time as consciousness and space as symbolism within consciousness. this perception could change too, cause I honestly don't have an absolute truth of that matter.



I have had only one" prophetic" dream not come to pass. My brother had an awake vision of the same event at the same time period. This made me think that this dream was perhaps prophetic, cause my brother had a waking vision of the same event. I didn't tell him of my dream about it cause my heart was heavy for him. I ached for a long time over it, it was a heavy burden. many years later, i told him. i told him how his sons life could be saved. he took action with his son on the matter. he didn't die like we both saw, but he did get a bad head injury that affects him to this day. this injury happened around the time he was to die and it happened in a completely different way the my brother and i saw him die. so perhaps, there are warning dreams, a chance to change a future. one author of spritiual matters says that we have exit points, that souls can chose to die at one point or not, perhaps only receive a lesser injury that doesn't cause death. i dunno. i still wonder if perhaps warning dreams are still fated. i dunno. cant' say for sure. i like to think that we have free will, but in all honestly, that is my ego talking and feeling when i think that. maybe one day, the truth will be known.


and to add, i quoted prophetic because i never assume dreams as truth until it does come to pass.


i need to finish Steiner's book. i am fixing to read on the inspiration part.
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  #26  
Old 17-11-2018, 06:39 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AraceliCianna
I don't believe anyone receives 'true' joy from sadism, but yes it's arguable that hell is where they belong if that is what they feel and believe.


My feeling in not seeing the thought as well, however think about experience here, if a person (soul?) can change in this life, then what if they (can) change in the after life. Is karma then permanent? Anyone can change. Experience is used (uses) to express experience and so is not about joy, but the opposite of it.
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  #27  
Old 17-11-2018, 06:49 PM
running running is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracey
being in the world, but not of it....maintaining your own natural state of joy regardless of what is going on around you, I experienced that in waves, more often as I get older.



I don't personally however believe I could experience that constant state of joy in causing harm to others, but do not shut the door to the idea that others could and do find a permanent joy in harming others.



Joy, one coin, two sides.

no you can't. nor can anyone. you misunderstood what i said. everybody can always be in joy because its not YOU causing it. it simply being open to that level of consciousness.

it is the real peace pipe. cause until then joy is derived by give and take. when it becomes causeless then real peace happens. due to its nature of being causeless.
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  #28  
Old 17-11-2018, 07:11 PM
Gracey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
no you can't. nor can anyone. you misunderstood what i said. everybody can always be in joy because its not YOU causing it. it simply being open to that level of consciousness.

it is the real peace pipe. cause until then joy is derived by give and take. when it becomes causeless then real peace happens. due to its nature of being causeless.




causeless, key word.
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  #29  
Old 17-11-2018, 07:19 PM
running running is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracey
causeless, key word.

yes. thank you! will remember to use that word when i bring it up.
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  #30  
Old 17-11-2018, 11:56 PM
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again i wish to note im simply speaking from my opinion and experience.
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