The man who was born blind

[ThatMan]

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born? This is not my finding, I read it on a website, quite interesting choice of words, this shows how "secret knowledge" is hidden within these verses, the more I search, the more I find.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born? This is not my finding, I read it on a website, quite interesting choice of words, this shows how "secret knowledge" is hidden within these verses, the more I search, the more I find.

It's referring to Karma.....

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by sky123

It's referring to Karma.....

Well, I know, but it amazes me how I was not able to see it for so so many years and now suddenly it became so clear.

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Well, I know, but it amazes me how I was not able to see it for so so many years and now suddenly it became so clear.

ThatMan,

Do not be too quick to assume you understand at least not until we view this in some depth. Yes, karma is implied. The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. Jesus was demonstrating that the cycle of karma could be escaped from and the healing could be proof of that. Notice, however, in this case he did not attribute the man's blindness to the sin of his parents. Instead he said that, in effect, the blind man was a guinea pig so that his healing would be a platform for displaying the work and the power of God.

This is a very significant chapter in the Bible. In fact, the entire chapter is devoted to this one incident. That should alert us to the importance and the significance of this story. Much of the rest of the chapter is devoted to giving convincing proof of the reality of the miracles. Blindness here is both literal and metaphoric. The metaphorical truth is the greater. The formerly blind man realized the significance by stating....."He is a prophet"(vs.17). This is recognizing that it was a divine healing. The Pharisees were convinced that Jesus was a sinner.....probably because the healing was on a Sabbath...vs. 16. This demonstrates that they believed in the literal law. The Pharisees persisted in their literal understandings....vs.34....and discounted the blind man's assessment of Jesus because they said the blind man 'had been steeped in sin from birth'(accepting karmic law and the passing of sin generationally). Now the closing and most important verses. John 9:39-41...…….."Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into THIS world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind" In other words, those that are metaphorically or literally blind can see when they are touched(enlightened) by the divine. Those who see will become blind....meaning those who cling to the literal truth will never be able to see spiritual truth and they will remain blind to this.

Continuing with vs. 40-41...."Some Pharisees who were with him heard his say this and asked, "What ? Are we blind too ?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."...….meaning: It you would admit your blindness(spiritual and metaphoric blindness) you would not be guilty of sin. But because you deny this blindness and assert, instead, that you can see, your guilt remains......you are still guilty until you repent. Repent here being derived from metanoia(the transforming of the mind). Until they repent in this sense they will remain prisoners of their own ignorance, denial and this material world.

So, yes, karma is indicated here but also the means to escape karma and no longer be enslaved by it.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

Do not be too quick to assume you understand at least not until we view this in some depth. Yes, karma is implied. The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. Jesus was demonstrating that the cycle of karma could be escaped from and the healing could be proof of that. Notice, however, in this case he did not attribute the man's blindness to the sin of his parents. Instead he said that, in effect, the blind man was a guinea pig so that his healing would be a platform for displaying the work and the power of God.

This is a very significant chapter in the Bible. In fact, the entire chapter is devoted to this one incident. That should alert us to the importance and the significance of this story. Much of the rest of the chapter is devoted to giving convincing proof of the reality of the miracles. Blindness here is both literal and metaphoric. The metaphorical truth is the greater. The formerly blind man realized the significance by stating....."He is a prophet"(vs.17). This is recognizing that it was a divine healing. The Pharisees were convinced that Jesus was a sinner.....probably because the healing was on a Sabbath...vs. 16. This demonstrates that they believed in the literal law. The Pharisees persisted in their literal understandings....vs.34....and discounted the blind man's assessment of Jesus because they said the blind man 'had been steeped in sin from birth'(accepting karmic law and the passing of sin generationally). Now the closing and most important verses. John 9:39-41...…….."Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into THIS world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind" In other words, those that are metaphorically or literally blind can see when they are touched(enlightened) by the divine. Those who see will become blind....meaning those who cling to the literal truth will never be able to see spiritual truth and they will remain blind to this.

Continuing with vs. 40-41...."Some Pharisees who were with him heard his say this and asked, "What ? Are we blind too ?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."...….meaning: It you would admit your blindness(spiritual and metaphoric blindness) you would not be guilty of sin. But because you deny this blindness and assert, instead, that you can see, your guilt remains......you are still guilty until you repent. Repent here being derived from metanoia(the transforming of the mind). Until they repent in this sense they will remain prisoners of their own ignorance, denial and this material world.

So, yes, karma is indicated here but also the means to escape karma and no longer be enslaved by it.

I like the way you answer, you give clear answers! This is a really great answer!

Originally Posted by ThatMan

I like the way you answer, you give clear answers! This is a really great answer!

Thanks....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

ThatMan,

Do not be too quick to assume you understand at least not until we view this in some depth. Yes, karma is implied. The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. Jesus was demonstrating that the cycle of karma could be escaped from and the healing could be proof of that. Notice, however, in this case he did not attribute the man's blindness to the sin of his parents. Instead he said that, in effect, the blind man was a guinea pig so that his healing would be a platform for displaying the work and the power of God.

This is a very significant chapter in the Bible. In fact, the entire chapter is devoted to this one incident. That should alert us to the importance and the significance of this story. Much of the rest of the chapter is devoted to giving convincing proof of the reality of the miracles. Blindness here is both literal and metaphoric. The metaphorical truth is the greater. The formerly blind man realized the significance by stating....."He is a prophet"(vs.17). This is recognizing that it was a divine healing. The Pharisees were convinced that Jesus was a sinner.....probably because the healing was on a Sabbath...vs. 16. This demonstrates that they believed in the literal law. The Pharisees persisted in their literal understandings....vs.34....and discounted the blind man's assessment of Jesus because they said the blind man 'had been steeped in sin from birth'(accepting karmic law and the passing of sin generationally). Now the closing and most important verses. John 9:39-41...…….."Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into THIS world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind" In other words, those that are metaphorically or literally blind can see when they are touched(enlightened) by the divine. Those who see will become blind....meaning those who cling to the literal truth will never be able to see spiritual truth and they will remain blind to this.

Continuing with vs. 40-41...."Some Pharisees who were with him heard his say this and asked, "What ? Are we blind too ?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."...….meaning: It you would admit your blindness(spiritual and metaphoric blindness) you would not be guilty of sin. But because you deny this blindness and assert, instead, that you can see, your guilt remains......you are still guilty until you repent. Repent here being derived from metanoia(the transforming of the mind). Until they repent in this sense they will remain prisoners of their own ignorance, denial and this material world.

So, yes, karma is indicated here but also the means to escape karma and no longer be enslaved by it.

' The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. '


Do you think M that Karma is ' Sin ' or that sin produces Karmic Seeds?

Original Sin is supposedly removed through Baptism according to the Roman Catholic Church so some Karma would have been removed ( if you believe this) hence the idea sin is inherited from Parents is null and void. What a tangled set of beliefs each Religion holds to be true is enough to give you a headache

Originally Posted by sky123

' The belief was held that sin was inherited through one's parents and was generational in nature. '


Do you think M that Karma is ' Sin ' or that sin produces Karmic Seeds?

Original Sin is supposedly removed through Baptism according to the Roman Catholic Church so some Karma would have been removed ( if you believe this) hence the idea sin is inherited from Parents is null and void. What a tangled set of beliefs each Religion holds to be true is enough to give you a headache

sky123,

Karma is not sin. Think of the scales of justice. Scales are meant to introduce balance. Karma, as I see it, attempts to provide a balance to various actions.

Sin necessitates law
Crime necessitates punishment
Actions necessitate karma

And explaining my absence from this thread for a few hours:
Expenses necessitates bills......hahahaha.....I have been paying my bills this morning.....:)

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

John 9:1-3 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born? This is not my finding, I read it on a website, quite interesting choice of words, this shows how "secret knowledge" is hidden within these verses, the more I search, the more I find.

This is an excerpt from a longer detailed event.

Some claim it involves karma but there is nothing in these scriptures that would leave one to believe karma was involved.

The questioned asked by the OP was "Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born?"

Jesus gave the answer "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

The rest of the text indicate that the works of God became manifested.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

This is an excerpt from a longer detailed event.

Some claim it involves karma but there is nothing in these scriptures that would leave one to believe karma was involved.

The questioned asked by the OP was "Look closer, how could the man sin even before being born?"

Jesus gave the answer "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

The rest of the text indicate that the works of God became manifested.

The idea is that they asked that question, which, in biblical terms, make no sense, it's not possible to sin even before being born - "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth", this is how it starts, they knew right before that he was born blind and yet they asked that question, that ends with "that he was born blind", they were well aware.

I thought you can see what I am trying to show but you can't.. ( you = all ).

Did that man sinned even before being born and so he was born blind or his parents sinned? This is what they asked, the writer of that gospel, wrote that verse purposely this way, why ask if that man sinned if he was not even alive.