Karma and the Foundational Quantum Reality

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I'm pretty sure all we can know is what we are at a foundation level, uninhibited by thoughts of what we are and such. I am left after all these years with knowing only this, that at my core I am loving, caring and selfless.
I also know that there so much that I can't know.
Karma, Souls, etc included but I am at peace with that.
I hope this adds to your thread 7L.
Have a great day!

Thank you so much for your response BlueSky.
I agree with what you've said and I bolded a core statement.
I agree much if not most is unknowable but on the other hand it is simultaneously ever more knowable from our centre, which is just as you have stated it is...and just as you have stated we are.

Do you feel that this process of coming to know who we are more truly -- as loving, caring, and selfless at core -- has clarified or even changed how you have approached your life and those in it?

Particularly where fences may need bolstering, mended, or just the application of simple lovingkindness?

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Gem

In Buddhist literature, 'fundamental particles' are referred to as 'Kalapas'.

Thanks Gem. After doing a quick read, I think this is essentially the older Buddhist general term for subatomic particles and other things that exist on a quantum scale of reality. Perhaps broadly also covering systems or groups of these, such as atoms and cells even...crossing into the boundary (or, crossing into the microscopic scale) of classic physics and observable reality.

My discussion is of the energetic and metaphysical nature of the bonds of consciousness that exist between these particles regardless of where they are and regardless of what state (probabilistic and unexpressed, observed and expressed, vascillating, indeterminant or unknown, etc) these particles are in.

And specifically, then, the correlation and extension of the types of foundational entanglement to the parallel metaphysical unit of individuated sentient consciousness (or what some may also call "soul", though Buddhists may prefer the former and may also tend to focus on the emptiness or symmetry (0 or oneness)-- rather than the "temporary deviation from symmetry" that all both individuated consciousness and all material reality represent, both). I prefer to explore the interbeing of differentiation rather than what seems like stultifying symmetry, so that is a disclaimer.

Thank you for bringing up the parallel Buddhist term to quantum particles (and similar) for further clarification.

To your knowledge, do Buddhists acknowledge the causal nature and the ongoing interpenetration of consciousness into our foundational material reality, including what they call the kalapas? Further, do they acknowledge a pre-existing parallel unit of sentient consciousness (individuation) and its parallel systems of entanglement (albeit at a much more complex level given the unit itself)? Just curious...perhaps they do not &/or prefer to place their focus elsewhere.

Any further thoughts are also welcome.

Peace & blessings
7L

[Gem]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Thanks Gem. After doing a quick read, I think this is essentially the older Buddhist general term for subatomic particles and other things that exist on a quantum scale of reality.

It is the Buddhist cosmology - and we interpret in terms of a modern quantum epistemology.

Perhaps broadly also covering systems or groups of these, such as atoms and cells even...crossing into the boundary (or, crossing into the microscopic scale) of classic physics and observable reality.

Yes, masses and masses of kalapas make up the reality as we sense it.

My discussion is of the energetic and metaphysical nature of the bonds of consciousness that exist between these particles regardless of where they are and regardless of what state (probabilistic and unexpressed, observed and expressed, vascillating, indeterminant or unknown, etc) these particles are in.

Kalapas are said to consist of 8 qualities that arise together and dissolve together, so a kalapa, although being the most fundamental aspect of matter, it arises 'interdependently' and has no substance of its own.

And specifically, then, the correlation and extension of the types of foundational entanglement to the parallel metaphysical unit of individuated sentient consciousness (or what some may also call "soul", though Buddhists may prefer the former and may also tend to focus on the emptiness or symmetry (0 or oneness)-- rather than the "temporary deviation from symmetry" that all both individuated consciousness and all material reality represent, both). I prefer to explore the interbeing of differentiation rather than what seems like stultifying symmetry, so that is a disclaimer.

Consciousness in Buddhism only regards the senses; and sight, sound, taste, sensation, smell,and thought are regarded as separate consciousness', such as ear consciousness, eye consciousness and so forth. The subtext is a bit more nuanced, but that's the general gist.

A kalapa is indeed related to 'consciousness' mainly through the 8th element, 'Nutrient' - but to go into the nutrients for the mind (mind being the 'thought sense consciousness') is a whole 'nuther explanation.

Thank you for bringing up the parallel Buddhist term to quantum particles (and similar) for further clarification.

To your knowledge, do Buddhists acknowledge the causal nature and the ongoing interpenetration of consciousness into our foundational material reality, including what they call the kalapas?

Short answer, yes, but one has to understand that Buddhism has no answers anyone can conclude on. Everything I say is vastly over simplified compared to what I understand of the philosophy. It's best to think in terms of subtleties and nuances than conclusions.

Buddhism is based on the truth of suffering, the cause of suffering, ans the cessation of suffering (see 4 noble truths), so cause is fundamental aspect of the teaching. It is best articulated in the kamma teachings which basically say volition creates potentials which manifest as experience when all conditions for it come together. Volition is one the 'nutrients' I mentioned previously...

Further, do they acknowledge a pre-existing parallel unit of sentient consciousness (individuation) and its parallel systems of entanglement (albeit at a much more complex level given the unit itself)? Just curious...perhaps they do not &/or prefer to place their focus elsewhere.

Any further thoughts are also welcome.

Peace & blessings
7L

In short according to Buddhism there is no individual self. The individual lifeform is called 'santana' but there is no aspect of the santana that endures time. It arises and desists in every moment. It is, however, generally considered to be 'eternal' in a sense of transformation, yet has no essential self which transforms. This seems to contradict the other teaching on rebirth, but Buddhist perspectives on reincarnation are a bit obscure because no one is there to be reborn. In a simplistic sense, the arising of volition in this moment create potentials, and those potentials arise in subsequent moments, and therefore, the arising in this moment bears characteristics of the moment which has already passed.

If we take it to a quantum or kalapa level, the thing you think is here as the same Gem has actually been destroyed and recreated gigtrillions of times whole writing this post. Of course the characteristics are recognisably similar, as this mind/body arises from volitions of the past mind. But nothing of last moment's Gem is here in this moment. Still, this santana, mind/body/personality is regarded as eternal, in a 'now and forever' sense, as the transformation, while yet having no self-substance which is continuous.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Thank you so much for your response BlueSky.
I agree with what you've said and I bolded a core statement.
I agree much if not most is unknowable but on the other hand it is simultaneously ever more knowable from our centre, which is just as you have stated it is...and just as you have stated we are.

Do you feel that this process of coming to know who we are more truly -- as loving, caring, and selfless at core -- has clarified or even changed how you have approached your life and those in it?

Particularly where fences may need bolstering, mended, or just the application of simple lovingkindness?

Peace & blessings
7L

Hi 7L and thanks for responding. What I've noticed is that I act the way I do, I think the way I do because at my core I am those things uninhibited, unconditional. So my relationships have not really changed with respect to how I act but where they have changed inward and outward is that I am at peace with this whole spiritual seeking of knowing. Life is just flowing through me and it feels nice to be at peace spiritually and at the same time open to all change.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

If we take it to a quantum or kalapa level, the thing you think is here as the same Gem has actually been destroyed and recreated gigtrillions of times whole writing this post. Of course the characteristics are recognisably similar, as this mind/body arises from volitions of the past mind. But nothing of last moment's Gem is here in this moment. Still, this santana, mind/body/personality is regarded as eternal, in a 'now and forever' sense, as the transformation, while yet having no self-substance which is continuous.

For someone who says they doesn't exist, you're very consistent lol


"..the one place where the Buddha was asked point-blank whether or not there was a self, he refused to answer. When later asked why, he said that to hold either that there is a self or that there is no self is to fall into extreme forms of wrong view that make the path of Buddhist practice impossible."

No-self or Not-self

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...=118443&page=6
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...47#post1672747
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...67#post1673867
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...74#post1675774

[Gem]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

For someone who says they doesn't exist, you're very consistent lol


"..the one place where the Buddha was asked point-blank whether or not there was a self, he refused to answer. When later asked why, he said that to hold either that there is a self or that there is no self is to fall into extreme forms of wrong view that make the path of Buddhist practice impossible."

No-self or Not-self

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...=118443&page=6
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...47#post1672747
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...67#post1673867
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...74#post1675774

You're Floatsy innit.

[Melahin]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I was trying to convey the notion that karma is built into the very foundation of our reality, and that it cannot be abrogated.

I believe KRYON talks about Karma as the most outdated version of our reality; and the love of god to be second, and love of self to be the newest foundation of our reality... and the one that out dates both of the other by millennia's Now if we look at yoga it talks about the Anahata to be place that exist outside the realm of Karma equally... neither have I ever found anything in Quantum that makes one believe in Karma... probably more allows you to believe in whatever you feel like. Also the way people talk about Karma I find that there are more acute ways to actually explain it if one comes from the intellect. Maybe some are here in this perceived time space not to burn off Karma, but to entirely let go of an idea that to my understanding is way outdated and I see Quantum as a way to allow one to do that... if one feel one is ready to do so Likewise is the idea of plural lives a speculation; maybe true, maybe false. All one can say is I experienced what felt like a past life; which to the Heart is good enough, the same way pretending you are Robin Hood equals a life experience of such magnitude haha. So maybe we are just here for no other reason than to enjoy life... and the rest is mere speculations that gives sense to the senseless?

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

You're Floatsy innit.

Is that meant as an insult? I'm grounded enough, thank you.

Originally Posted by Gem

I look to my own mind and it's clear to me that elated personas such as Buddha and Jesus are imagined out of iconography and stories I have heard in the past.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Is that meant as an insult? I'm grounded enough, thank you.

I think you're the member who went by the name Floatsy. It that true?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Melahin

I believe KRYON talks about Karma as the most outdated version of our reality; and the love of god to be second, and love of self to be the newest foundation of our reality... and the one that out dates both of the other by millennia's Now if we look at yoga it talks about the Anahata to be place that exist outside the realm of Karma equally... neither have I ever found anything in Quantum that makes one believe in Karma... probably more allows you to believe in whatever you feel like. Also the way people talk about Karma I find that there are more acute ways to actually explain it if one comes from the intellect. Maybe some are here in this perceived time space not to burn off Karma, but to entirely let go of an idea that to my understanding is way outdated and I see Quantum as a way to allow one to do that... if one feel one is ready to do so Likewise is the idea of plural lives a speculation; maybe true, maybe false. All one can say is I experienced what felt like a past life; which to the Heart is good enough, the same way pretending you are Robin Hood equals a life experience of such magnitude haha. So maybe we are just here for no other reason than to enjoy life... and the rest is mere speculations that gives sense to the senseless?

According to Buddhist teachings, kamma is to do with volition, so there isn't any past kamma as such, only potentials created by volition of the past. The volition one has now creates potentials for future arisings. So it is said good-will produces good outcomes and ill-will produces bad outcomes.