I can take it all in - it's who I AM!

[Honza]

It's that simple. Or is it?

I say - I CAN'T take it all in - It's God. It's like trying to take all of God into myself. Impossible.

[Honza]

I say I can't take it all in - it's God.

Others say I can take it all in - it's me.

What is the difference here????

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Honza

I say I can't take it all in - it's God.

Others say I can take it all in - it's me.

What is the difference here????

The difference would be they believe it, and want to, and therefore can. Whereas you don't want to believe it, and therefore can't or won't. This applies to pretty much everything and anything we do as humans. We choose our beliefs, and our beliefs both create our reality and define our limitations.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Baile

The difference would be they believe it, and want to, and therefore can. Whereas you don't want to believe it, and therefore can't or won't. This applies to pretty much everything and anything we do as humans. We choose our beliefs, and our beliefs both create our reality and define our limitations.

I've heard someone say one of the worst things to happen to mankind was the idea that God was separate from us and we had to find him. I can see this in how we look to priests, gurus, governments, even gods, to save us and protect us. We willingly become slaves who see ourselves as unworthy worms. I admit it's not an easy paradism to just drop because it's been so ingrained. There has to be a struggle to get out of it. And finally a decision to let it go.

For some people it might be like facing death. If you've been told a god out there loves you but if you turn on him, you suffer eternity separate from him.. that's pretty scary stuff. You have to really want to break free, and trust your feelings enough that you're willing to face the consequences. You have to stare into the abyss and jump off the cliff into the darkness even though it's terrifying.

A long time ago, if a person had a disagreement with their tribe, they would always stay with the tribe because if they left it was impossible to survive alone. But if they felt strongly enough about it they left anyway, pretty much going to their death, taking their chances. It was better than staying.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

We willingly become slaves who see ourselves as unworthy worms. I admit it's not an easy paradism to just drop because it's been so ingrained. There has to be a struggle to get out of it. And finally a decision to let it go.

Christopher Hitchens described religion, and God-belief of the sort you describe, as akin to one willingly choosing to become an abject slave. Look up the definition of abject. Because that is so very precisely what is going on there. It's wretched misery. It's people choosing degrading, woeful misery because they see themselves as worthless.

The comment you make about it not being an easy paradigm to just drop, is a critical point. We're talking millennia of hard-wired brainwashing... all the world being taught to conceive of "God" as a malevolent judge who lives the sky, auditing our every thought and action. And it's God-consciousness that hasn't evolved; it's the exact same dynamic as stone-age people who feared the gods of thunder and lightening. From my experience, this consciousness shift can only happen as a result of an epiphany. It isn't something people can come to via thinking. It's much more a process of the higher self waking one up via the inpouring of pure understanding.

[Honza]

This 'belief in a higher God' is quite natural to humans. It is intrinsic to human nature. Most people quite naturally do not see themselves as God Himself; but rather as something smaller. Which is not surprising considering we are small creatures who live on earth. Most people also have a sense that their behaviour is somehow lacking in grace.

I find it quite natural to look 'up' to a higher power, as I think most other people do too. I don't think religion has been brainwashed into us. It is more of a collective human decision to believe in God.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Honza

I find it quite natural to look 'up' to a higher power, as I think most other people do too.

I wonder about this. It doesn't feel natural for me, in that there's something that feels 'off' about it. I can't describe it, it just feels like it's not going to help much, or I should be doing something else instead. I can also remember have a distinct experience when I was praying that I was praying to myself.

But I do feel that itis habitual, so it's natural in that sense. It's kind of like a reaction. It's something I instinctively go to. If I really want something bad, or need something bad, I'll pray to the universe and it feels a little comforting.