Dispassion

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

is it Karma? Is that just life? Is it wrong place wrong time?

I wont talk about suffering but I have a view on the cause of some of it.

My answer is that not having full awareness of your environment is the problem.The animals you mentioned did not have awareness of the traffic because of a different type/level of intelligence or consciousness. The boy did not have enough awareness of the dangers of the river.

We have awareness by sight,sound,touch and past experience's,our own and others is important.This will keep us safe for a lot of the time but in times of hidden dangers that our obvious senses cant sense,like the killer a hide in the bushes or the bomb in the building,it is intuition that guides and this is what is lacking in most people. Its not considered real so it doesn't grow as we grow.It is left behind in our early years.

A strong energy can also deflect dangerous or incompatable energies from coming your way so you can live your life with chaos close by but it never comes to you.This is being in the right place at the right time.

Sight,Sounds and touch combined with Intuition and a strong Energy will keep you in control of your destiny about 90% of the time,the rest could be Karma that has to be addressed.
Intuition can also be called a high level of wisdom

It can be a random world of love(excitement) and it can be a random world of pain and we can have control....We can ride along with the energies of the world or we can take control and create our own world by being more aware on all levels.

[dannerz]

my understanding is that there are many forms of suffering, and many ways to ease or reduce suffering. Meditation is one. Then there is kind and supportive acts. Forgiveness. Etc. We are supposed to use all our methods of easing suffering, when needed and done skillfully.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

So yesterday, a little 10 year old boy falls into a river and gets sucked into a pipe and drowns while his brothers watch helplessly. The people who shared his life for the last 10 years devastated. As a father, as a human being, I can’t imagine their suffering.

This morning, a raccoon and a ground hog, whose life has been filled with a constant struggle to survive, met their end simply trying to cross a busy street.

I’m curious, from the perspective of one who finds solace in Buddhism, what is the story you tell yourself about these such events?

Do you feel emotions when hearing or seeing such things?

Yes.

Do you suffer seeing others suffer?

Yes, empathically.

Do you think that every answer I get simply represents the story we all choose to tell each other about life? Is your answer more than a story?

I don't have answers that explain it.

Thanks[/quote]

[Ground]

Originally Posted by sky123

...
Dispassion seems to have lots of different meanings, but in my personal opinion it's the opposite of compassion

Just think rationally! What purpose does compassion serve in the context of someone having died? There is simply no purpose. Compassion does not make the dead alive.
What purpose does compassion serve in the context of someone having died and others mourning his/her death? There is simply no purpose. Compassion does neither make the dead alive nor stop the mourning of others.

In these contexts compassion is useless at least if not merely ignorant.

The most cases buddhists think it may be good to feel compassion it is simply a manifestation of ignorance. They like themselves feeling compassion that does not have any purpose other than for themselves.

The only context compassion may be relevant is when it comes to action that has an effect that may be directly perceptible for others. But in these contexts rationality may do as well and not only that but what speaks for rationality rather than compassion is that rationality may guide actions with higher precision and thus more efficiently than compassion does.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Ground

...
The most cases buddhists think it may be good to feel compassion it is simply a manifestation of ignorance. They like themselves feeling compassion that does not have any purpose other than for themselves...

Having said that when is compassion - according to buddhism - not a manifestation of ignorance although it serves a self purpose exclusively?
It is when it is cultivated in the context of the Brahmaviharas as an instance of awareness release (meditative absorptions, jhanas) which is a factor leading to liberation. There are several types of awareness release and one of them is achieved by means of the Brahmaviharas which include compassion.

[Gem]

'Dispassion', in the West, is interpreted as a sort of indifference, disregard and sounds like there is no passion, enthusiam or vitality in life, but in Buddhist philosophy, 'viraga' (dispassion) basically means the waning, cessation or absence of craving.

[Ground]

'Indifference' is called 'ignorance' in buddhism.

[Ground]

Let me list the buddhist categories of what has to be eliminated on the path to liberation. Of course these categories are partially overlapping:

1. Asava (fermentations, effluents, outflows, taints):
fermentation of sensuality
fermentation of becoming
fermentation of ignorance

2. Kilesa (defilements — in their various forms):
passion (lobha)
aversion (dosa)
delusion (moha)

3. Nivarana (hindrances):
sensual desire (kamacchanda)
ill-will (vyapada)
sloth and drowsiness (thina-middha)
restlessness and worry (uddhacca-kukkucca)
doubt (vicikiccha)

4. Fetters (sanyojana, samyojana):
Self-identity views
uncertainty
grasping at precepts & practices
sensual desire
ill will
passion for form
passion for what is formless
conceit
restlessness
ignorance


Remark: you see that it is not a lack of compassion that has to be eliminated but ill-will. This is important since the cultivation of compassion is merely an optional temporary antidot to ill-will but compassion is not a goal in itself. Why is this? Because ill-will is also eliminated through direct perception of emptiness.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by barrynu

I wont talk about suffering but I have a view on the cause of some of it.

My answer is that not having full awareness of your environment is the problem.The animals you mentioned did not have awareness of the traffic because of a different type/level of intelligence or consciousness. The boy did not have enough awareness of the dangers of the river.

We have awareness by sight,sound,touch and past experience's,our own and others is important.This will keep us safe for a lot of the time but in times of hidden dangers that our obvious senses cant sense,like the killer a hide in the bushes or the bomb in the building,it is intuition that guides and this is what is lacking in most people. Its not considered real so it doesn't grow as we grow.It is left behind in our early years.

A strong energy can also deflect dangerous or incompatable energies from coming your way so you can live your life with chaos close by but it never comes to you.This is being in the right place at the right time.

Sight,Sounds and touch combined with Intuition and a strong Energy will keep you in control of your destiny about 90% of the time,the rest could be Karma that has to be addressed.
Intuition can also be called a high level of wisdom

It can be a random world of love(excitement) and it can be a random world of pain and we can have control....We can ride along with the energies of the world or we can take control and create our own world by being more aware on all levels.

That is an interesting take on this. I can certainly relate to the power of
i ntuition but I can't accept that as an answer. At times my life has. Even seemingly guided, pushed, purposeful and at others quite random.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

Every thing comes and goes. Every living being will die...and the when and how are unknown and unknowable. It is a little sad hearing about the boy, racoon, and ground hog...but it was inevitable. Sooner or later, everyone dies. For the boy, it was sooner rather than later. But duration is not a sign of superiority, success, fulfillment, etc. Is the lightning flash less spectacular because the sun shines millions of years?

I don't suffer when others suffer, because suffering is a mentally self-created illusion...there is no need for me to feel bad because of their suffering. I can understand how they would see things and feel compassion for them...but I don't suffer because they suffer. Suffering does no good...for anyone.

Yes everything dies but not everyone lives watching their child die. It's not about living and dying that perplexes me, it's more about guidance and help from somewhere, anywhere. These such events speak to the randomness of life and to a lack of divine intervention. Although personally I have experienced equally divine intervention. I'm left lost if you will, that is unless I choose to make believe otherwise