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  #201  
Old 21-07-2017, 04:29 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Hey Greenslade - thanks for your reply. I can't give you a full reply for a while but I will make just a few quick comments on a few items that jumped out.

I may not have stated clearly before, sorry. But I don't think it's ever valid to say that what others name as not ok for them is ok, purely based on our own say-so (or even our own understanding of spirit). If others say, no this is imbalance perpetrated by men on men, and it's on humanity to address it, pure and simple -- then it's not for me to deny others their truth simply because it's obviously more convenient for me, and for our society at large, not to have to reflect and take ownership.

Nor do I believe the details of our lives, beyond the broadest strokes of birth and a few other things, are preordained. I believe much more pervasively in universal ownership and conscious choice at the level of individuated consciousness, in full alignment with the heart centre. This can and also will need to be dialed up to the collective level in the same sustainable and authentically loving manner, if we intend to continue as a species. That too is down to choices...we can take them consciously and in alignment with the heart centre, or we can take them mindlessly or even choose consciously to act and live in misalignment.

Now I personally don't read trashy romance novels, hahaha. Not sure where that ref came from but it seemed an odd phrase to use in a serious conversation with another intelligent person. Most of the time, it's something to do with some men's fear, contempt or envy of the heart-centred wisdom many women have come to naturally and deeply, and rather organically, upon maturity. It's certainly available to men as well...it just requires that they lose the fear, envy and the contempt in particular, and live as most women live. Knowing every day you've got nothing in your pocket and it's not about the win. Ever. Seems to work for the mystics too.

Myself, for reading I prefer nonfiction, spiritual works old and new, and sci-fi with deep, hard-core social commentary built in. But, along those lines you mention, authentic love is also not the stuff of porn either, hahaha And so why was that left off your list? Is it because it is so massively, globally, pervasively tied in with our social and personal misalignment, and with many other serious social and personal sicknesses? And because it's still quite difficult for many to break the secrecy of the bro code and call it for what it is? LOL...hahaha.

I've said it before and I am the first to say openly it's sick and twisted that modern society so openly and cycnically exploits men's vulnerabilities, for profit, for spiritual degradation and misdirection, and importantly for social control of otherwise free men.

Likewise, society has always - throughout history - exploited women's vulnerabilities, which are especially a woman's physical weaknesses and vulnerabilities. This is not new -- exploiting women's weakness is built into the fabric of our imbalance and ultimately our unsustainability as a species, if we continue. It's well known that women will sustain abuse, oppression, prostitution, rape, sexual exploitation, and many other indignities and traumas to accommodate and nurture their children. This reflects nothing other than the lack of healthy options globally for women in pursuit of our need for love and family, and importantly, for children.

I think it's absolutely the case that women will need to stand against everything society says they are, and against what society says they deserve. And then yes, I would say that in this regard, women have a role to play, in saying no and in setting boundaries for their basic dignity, for the most basic level of regard and respect. But this will, as you say, probably take at least a few generations to play out...and probably a few centuries. Look at the backlash against minorities and women getting rights over the last century. It's bad. We're still seen as uppity for saying no, we don't want to be used and degraded, like chattel. Often, this stance results in brutality and violence against any or all women by some men, but particularly against the women they know who may take a stand. Minorities often see the same thing.

No one will deny that women will need to come to this place of total fearlessness as a woman, risking even basic survival, to stand on her own in the face of threats to her life and livelihood -- and in this way, she can set her own boundaries and ask for what she feels is true and right, for a change. But it's absolutely what will be required...almost no deep social change has ever come about without a lot of blood, and not without a lot of hostile, aggressively inflicted retribution and punishment from those in power-over who cannot stand granting any recognition of full autonomy to others.

Nonetheless, all this said, we all know that to those whom more is given, more is asked. The lion's share of the responsibility for the situation on the ground, as well as engaging in change and in solutions, always goes to those already in positions of power-over. They bear the lion's share of the responsibility...and ideally, they will choose to take ownership and contribute to a better, more equitable, more sustainable future. And with less blood and hostile aggression by their hands in the process. Globally, this means men still need to take primary ownership as they still have the lion's share of social, economic, and physical power and control. Of course, many are not yet at the point of taking any ownership...hence the ad nauseaum justifications of the status quo. Not surprising, just extremely tedious and often dangerous as well.

We need to find a sustainable way forward together. And as women find a voice, we're going to be calling for more ownership by men. And as more women continue to find the strength to risk everything they are, their very lives included, we will continue to take ownership for who we are, and to claim the dignity and respect -- as people and as individuals first and foremost -- that we know is our human right. Women know they are equal to men in all ways except physical strength, even if we are different in some ways.

And men are going to come to know it, too...and not just regarding their daughters or their wives. But regarding all women.
Some may deny it from here to eternity...and many men are at present fighting this tooth and nail, because they cannot bear taking ownership nor facing the reality of our equality in spirit and in all manifest ways aside from strength. It is this simple recognition of our equal humanity that has been an eternity to date in coming and which has still not yet arrived. It is this simple recognition of our humanity that we as women must be and increasingly are willing to die for.
But nevertheless, she persisted.
When I hear these words, I am literally moved to tears
I am becoming the woman I always loved and respected as a man (after that first **** life as a man when I could barely find my goods with both hands no doubt, LOL...).
And I see so, so many who walk with me shoulder-to-shoulder. And I welcome all others to join us, and we will join you.

And now...I look around for those men whom I would equally respect in fellowship, whether as a man OR as a woman.
I welcome you...we all welcome you...with much warm, appreciation, and solidarity. As we hope you will welcome us.
It takes a lot of courage to live in the real with nothing in your pocket, to take ownership, and to persist in courageous and loving word and deed, nevertheless.

I'll get back to you with proper responses later. Just throwing some thoughts out there now.

Peace & blessings mate
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 21-07-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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  #202  
Old 23-07-2017, 01:10 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
OK, let's run with your logic, surely Spirit knows fine well that coming here isn't going to be sunshine and roses so why make that choice? I'm sorry but that smacks of Spirit being very naive at best. If there is no time then where does that put the choices the Soul makes prior to incarnation?

I don't buy the 'it's not a valid experience' because any alternatives make even less sense. Who makes it not a valid experience and why is it invalid? Because we can't come top terms because we made the choices, because we can't get our Spiritual heads around the concept that Spiritual development isn't going to happen in a garden full of nothing but sunshine and roses?

I've looked back at my Life and come to terms with it and it's the 'bad stuff' that's made me who and what I am and not the airy-fairy stuff. Had a lot of it not happened I wouldn't even have liked the person I could have become. Because of who and what I am I've made changes to people's Lives and changed them for the better in very practical ways. And I'm not bragging, just acknowledging. If I had the choice again I'd make the same choices again with no hesitation. I'd forget who and what I am today to go through all that so I can make those changes to people's Lives.

And really, couldn't you say the same?

Greenslade, hello there! Well...as I see it...
This is not about you or me, or anyone else per se. It's about all of us, equally. Nor is this is about being lazy or whining or wishing for a bed of roses, LOL...

You're talking to a single mum, sole support, works with analytics, logic, code, and numbers in a largely male (and foreign) field, who has done a lot of unofficial search and rescue in the past, who has risked her life for others many times. I've also brought life into this world and nurtured it there and it all my close relationships.

We've all made concrete changes in the lives of others...including with love as well saving lives. No disrespect but neither you nor anyone else gets to dress me down in this regard, LOL. I know for a fact I have as least as much generosity, courage, and stamina than the vast majority of men I've met, both emotionally and physically. I also have a deep connection with spirit...precisely because of my courage, strength, and faith.

Again, we're having a serious discussion and in the context of where we are on our journeys, it should be mutually understood that no one here lacks spiritual strength or courage or fortitude for the journey and the challenges. Too many men in our society already assume that women's physically weakness implies they are also inferior spiritually, emotionally, and/or intellectually. This is false...and it's time to consciously confront these common social assumptions, so that we can deconstruct them and begin to move past them to a common place of truth and love.

I realise back in the day, a woman was often not permitted by society and those she knew to be fully her own person. She was often infantilised even, in wealthier circles. But that's largely a thing of the distant past in the West. Today it's quite different. The days when a man could unconditionally presume his superiority over women -- aside from things involving brute strength -- are long gone. And many men need to severely check themselves and consciously strive to remember this -- even if in most times they still get the bigger reward and recognition day-to-day and even if they are still largely in power-over positions.

This is not about questioning spirit because "some of ye" (LOL) are too weak or lazy or naive to suck it up and deal with life, hahaha...No, actually this is about standing for a penetrating enquiry of the self, of others, and of society. This is about growing up...it's beginning the process of asking ourselves the hard questions, and leaving excuses and justifications to the side.

I feel you've been missing my focus at times, due to what appear to be various assumptions you may have made. I also think you might consider challenging or questioning many of those assumptions, as they simply don't fit me or many other women worldwide.

But as I see it, it's very clear that what has been up to now doesn't every justify continuation of what is now OR in future. Nor does what is now magically perpetuate what is, in future. We choose. We take decisions. We co-create what is in every now moment going forward...and it is our responsibility to do so, as well as our great joy and our beloved work of service.

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No those things are not yet the norm, and what if they were? Perls are rare and because of that people place a value on them, but really they're just an irritation covered in oyster snot.

And if those sustainable ways were the norm, wouldn't that make them mundane and not worth talking about? Because after all the unauthentic Love finding authentic Love is precious, and being a friend to a stranger without any agenda or anything else then becomes precious to them. You see, we use the Law of Attraction to attract not what we need but what we want, and we have really know idea on the very basics so we're busy attracting something that we don't want.

One of the reasons that society isn't full of authentic Love is because not enough people ARE authentic Love - the attention goes to inauthentic Love and so the energy flows to it. And it seems as if the Universe is lacking it because there is just lack to harmonise and attract. Yes the balance is a long way from being there,, but that's grounds to become the changes we want to see.

I love that insight . My response would be, let's talk about why we think that irritated snot has worth ('cause it's materially valuable, right?), and explore how far that takes us, and where we are today as a result.

Then we can explore what has real [authentic, eternal] worth -- and then maybe the conversation can generate some real movement across the collective.

Truthfully, I don't think the heart needs loads or aeons of non-love to recognise love. That's not how it works I think it's immediately resonant. The less non-love we try to justify or rationalise, the more we free ourselves to do and be and give and receive love. Authentic love.

All the dumb **** stuff...and especially the consciously hostile, agressive stuff we do...it's just acting out and refusing to be who we are, to do as we call ourselves to do at centre, to live as we call ourselves to live at centre. In alignment with spirit.

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Indeed, and it's things like this that put it into perspective for me and the 'bad' stuff and the 'toxic' experiences were a part of making that happen.

That's you and that's great. I do understand you. But I would never justify the suffering or perpetration of harm and misalignment on others because either you or I dealt with it and we feel it was all to the good. Everything is all to the good over the span of eternity. That's a given and says nothing about our responsibilities and our choices in each now moment.

Also we all deal, else we break or we die. That's also a given and that too says nothing about our responsibility for our choices. It says nothing about our responsibility for our words and deeds and their impact on self/others. We cannot presume that our perspectives, or Spirit, etc., are ever any more important or valid than that of others who cry out to say, "NO, stop the oppression...stop the perpetration of abuse, the rape, the exploitation...we are suffering trauma and pain."

Our blood is not redder, nor is Spirit "en masse" or as One any more valid or important or worthy than ANY SINGLE person or any single experience. So IMO we cannot presume we know that the suffering of others is justified or planned or OK. And therefore we cannot deprecate or dismiss their suffering at our hands or the hands of others.

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What often brings me the greatest of realisations isn't in being given the answers but in asking the right questions in the first place. I'm not trying to ralionalise my Life but trying to look at it from the perspective of hindsight. The trouble for me is that often Spirituality takes a very myopic view of its beliefs and puts them in glass cases. But one belief can impact another and so on and what's left isn't beliefs any more but paradoxes. There is no time but a Soul becomes incarnate anyway, didn't that Soul know their incarnate existence wasn't going to be sunshine and roses? If that Soul had no clue then there's something badly wrong with the basics, if the Soul isn't that stupid and does it anyway then surely that means we need a paradigm shift in thinking?

There is no forgiveness without something to forgive, and therefore no transformation, no true empathy because I don't think empathy can happen unless there is a commonality of experience, no.... so many things that can only come from a 'toxic' experience. Did we Love ourselves and others to give ourselves and them that experience? That too is real to the Soul.

I get what you are saying, but I don't exactly agree with your assessment of how we come to empathy. IMO we come to empathy by caring for the well-being of others, by caring for their feelings, their thoughts and words and deeds, by caring for their dignity and their honour....We come to empathy by loving the self, loving others, and loving Spirit. I feel empathy for them as a human being and as a soul. But if my heart is hard or closed or numb, then it might be hard to muster empathy for anyone, since I cannot even give myself any.

Quote:
Even better, we'll still have time when the sun has become a cold old lump of rock.
LOL...good example!

Quote:
Care to share?
Daz mentioned on the other thread regarding where he was at. He discussed that it involved spending time regularly doing meditative and healing work. Also that he was experiencing great growth and change, and he mentioned that it is not necessary to reincarnate to undergo transformative or meaningful change in the self. Along those lines :) Although he didn't elaborate further so there's still some mystery there ;)

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Transmutation and transformation is happening but it takes a more detailed view sometimes, and it's not always on the surface. There's just a lot of polarisation happening right now and the balance isn't what it could be - Awake and Enlightened people are still very much afraid of the dark, sadly enough.

There is some of that and you can see it, for certain, but that is *definitely* not true of many awakened folks Greenslade. Only some.

You know who clearly is still afraid of the dark? Any and everyone who can't self-reflect honestly OR who can't reflect honestly about the culture they live in, and the world they live in, and how much of that they accept thoughtlessly or reject/transform consciously. IMO, if we cannot call it like it is and talk about what's real and where we're at...and OWN it freely, then YES, we are petrified Bro code, the harshly addictive and degraded aspects of mainstream culture, etc...totally petrified of the dark, LOL.

Justification of the misaligned as to the good over eternity is dismissive and dehumanising of the reality of real folks right now. And I completely agree it is hugely based on fear. Fear of owning who they are right now, and fear of the strength needed to either own it or to transmute it in the fire.

Quote:
You have experienced authentic Love but for those that haven't? I can understand why people would chose the experience of not having authentic Love in their Lives, because when they've explored not having it they can then exp[lore having it. But then, if we are Love and all we've done is chosen to forget for the duration?

Right here, that's what I don't agree with...with all due respect to you. I don't think we ever..ever..ever choose to explore non-love. We simply are not always skilled enough or experienced enough in the way of authentic love to manifest that love in healthy, sustainable ways.

Quote:
The legacy is hard to overcome for so many reasons, behavioural patterns have been ingrained into both our genetics and psyches since when, cavemen/person days? I think we've still a long way to go before we can counteract that one but we are making progress, but much of it comes down to people's own choices. Getting away from the perception of 'breeding stock' seems to be taking longer than it should. Heck, we're still struggling to look a little further than what's in front of our faces and being LGBT is almost sadly yet cancerous to society.

It's only through our differences that we can find our similarities, and a place where people can truly come together in a more meaningful way. For many years Muslims have been keeping themselves to themselves because of the hatred towards them. In the past year especially they've been much more vocal in condemning terrorist behaviour and distancing themselves from it to the stage where they're standing with those they shut themselves away from. Yet while thousands of Muslims stage publicly their condemnation of terrorism it goes unheeded in the mainstream media.

Balance works both ways energetically, if we polarise a Universe that isn't polarised to begin with; while there are efforts towards harmony there are efforts towards disharmony. There are energy systems at work here that few understand.

The biggest problem is that we are separated from ourselves in so many ways and yes, that includes Spiritual people. Spiritual people rpobably more so, both consciously and not and until such time as that is addressed then things aren't going to change in any kind of a hurry. "Big boys don't cry" so they lose touch with that part of themselves, once that happens they can't help but lose touch with authentic Love because they don't have the capacity to recognise it. Those 'big boys' become sadly lacking. It's not just about remembrance and understanding it's social and personal conditioning that they can't rid themselves of.

A very strong and Spiritual woman once told me that there are experiences only women can have. I'd have to take her word for that, not being a woman myself but from my own perspective it's something I can understand. It seems that for many women their Spirituality is more heart-centred and sometimes conversations can take a different turn when they come from the mind. I suppose logic is relative after all. Women do tend to (correct me if I'm wrong) come more from the heart than the mind. Perhaps when we lose any semblance of gender-based perceptions we'll lose what seems to be keeping us apart.

G - thank you for your thoughts here...I agree with a lot of your discussion of causes and of the state of things at present.

Here - she's right BUT you do have knowledge of this as a man...your lives as a woman and as man reside with your higher self and you will have access to what you need of each when you seek it purely and/or when you are ready for it. Often I seek it before I am perhaps fully ready for it, hahaha...and then I play catchup :) I am learning how to steer the fire of my drive for Spirit but it has a will of its own.

We have all been men and women, 99% of us, as I understand it...and I completely agree that access to both sets of experiences is crucial to fully getting what it is to be human, centred, and balanced...to be compassionate and loving and just and strong...from both ways of knowing.

Here - I will say women are more widely encouraged to explore integrity of heart...and men should be as well - it's tragic and wrong that this is typically not the case and we can do better. Also, being limited physically, women have an innate understanding of limitation, humility, faith, and grace...which yields an innate understanding of the primacy and wisdom of authentic love. Of the way of the heart AND of bringing the awakened mind in service to heart.

Men can and DO certainly attain this same place once they open themselves to that same primacy of the way of humility, heart centre, authentic love, and of the awakened heart-led conciousness. Men do have to choose, at least to continue to turn toward heart and spirit and to open to it from a place of humility and faith...that is free will. No one is going to do it for you. But it's certainly true that we could love and support one another in these ways as a society, instead of actively exploiting men's weaknesses.

But it's very important to remember that women do not abrogate mind or intellect simply by choosing the heart-led consciousness. It's never an either/or thing. We do typically understand that mind and intellect are limited means of apprehending existence and spirit. And they cannot bring us to love nor to the core of anything authentic and eternal. Mind is a tool to be used in service to heart. The tool cannot tell you who you are ;) and so the tool is never meant to be "in charge". That is wisdom. However, if women have sought to downplay or limit development of the mind simply because men devalued them aside from the sex and helpmeet aspects, it's on women to do what they need to do in order to strengthen and develop the mind. Everyone needs a good set of tools to get their work done

Quote:
I don't know about whether or not it was his iniquities, being honest. At times I saw something in his eye that I took to be regret and there were times when he could act like a father and not an over-grown brother. If there was indeed a Soul 'in there' then where should the sympathies lie? This is something that isn't explained, if there is a Soul 'in there looking out' then...??? For me it's one huge concoction of paradoxes that defy solving. Perhaps it is all about quantum mechanics and the double-slit experiment, that the consciousness of the observer dictates the reality.

Without him, the way he was and what he a did perhaps that little girl might have had a different Life, and perhaps Mrs Greenslade might not have had someone to put her back together again. It happened, that's the way is was and how I've come through it is the way it is but I've made that choice.

G - your sick stepdad had a soul, no doubt. He had iniquities and challenges...and he failed to rise to them. I'm so sorry. His soul plan was to struggle with himself, to rise to the struggle, and to grow from it, such that he could have been a decent and loving man to you and all he knew. IMO that is always, always, always the plan. He fell short of his own soul challenges...and the result is always misalignment and very often much trauma to self and others.

You've made it work but I have no doubt, none at all, that you would have found challenges and meaning in life regardless had you not suffered his brutality. I do NOT think your growth or goodness, any of it, had to do with this man or that it was reliant on this man. Instead, you dealt and used that opportunity to be who you are, just as you would have done regardless, in other settings and other opportunities. Still, there's nothing like making some lemonade at times, is there? :)

Quote:
I've been doing a rerun of Battlestar Galactica the TV series and it's still creeping me out. There's a theme that runs through it - "All this has happened before and it will happen again" and every time I hear it I get the shivers. It's as though all this has played out before and it's playing out again, not just the themes that people and society is going through right now but the Universe itself. And we are going through themes, they're just wearing different clothes. Perhaps the Big Bang is the result of a previous Big Crunch that drew all the matter in the Universe together in a single point that exploded outwards to create the Universe as it is now. Even that feels like a merry-go-round that I want to get off.

And perhaps we're here because we became bored with being what we had become. Again.

Y'know, considering where we've come from yet here we are, well met - what are the chances? Ain't that damned cool?

Well met indeed, friend...but no worries, I'm not bored yet Suppose it's to do with how challenging all this actually is, when you manifest and make it concrete, hahaha! Not as easy as looks from the other side, no doubt LOL!

Peace & blessings,
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 23-07-2017 at 03:42 AM.
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  #203  
Old 23-07-2017, 11:17 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Hey Greenslade - thanks for your reply. I can't give you a full reply for a while but I will make just a few quick comments on a few items that jumped out.

I may not have stated clearly before, sorry. But I don't think it's ever valid to say that what others name as not ok for them is ok, purely based on our own say-so (or even our own understanding of spirit). If others say, no this is imbalance perpetrated by men on men, and it's on humanity to address it, pure and simple -- then it's not for me to deny others their truth simply because it's obviously more convenient for me, and for our society at large, not to have to reflect and take ownership.

Nor do I believe the details of our lives, beyond the broadest strokes of birth and a few other things, are preordained. I believe much more pervasively in universal ownership and conscious choice at the level of individuated consciousness, in full alignment with the heart centre. This can and also will need to be dialed up to the collective level in the same sustainable and authentically loving manner, if we intend to continue as a species. That too is down to choices...we can take them consciously and in alignment with the heart centre, or we can take them mindlessly or even choose consciously to act and live in misalignment.
There's that little word - OK and what we're not OK with. Is that where it really begins? The Universe is the way it is because people have made it that way, they've exercised their Free Will and at times taken the Free Will from others. And we're not OK with it. But what are we not OK with? Are we not OK with them taking away the Free Will of someone else or are we not OK with the idea that there may well be something happening here beyond our understanding?

I haven't had an easy Life but what I do have today is the benefit of retrospect. What I really need right now is an understanding of this bit about 'no-time', because that's where my understanding of this falls apart. In Spirit there isn't supposed to be time, so in Spirit's perception everything that has happened, is happening or will happen is already happening. We knew that when we incarnated it wouldn't be sunshine and roses but we're here anyway, hung from the tree like the Hanged Man in the Tarot. If I had the choice to do it all over again for the same results I would; to meet the same Souls, to help people find their own Light, to make those differences.... I've had this discussion before and honestly there comes a time when the 'random chance' bit stops making sense.

What keeps you here, on this planet? What keeps me on this planet? I have my answer, do you have yours? I went into the sea to pull out a drowning comrade knowing full well the chances of us getting out were next to non-existent. Yeah it was a miracle, was I 'meant to' live, was I 'destined' not to die because I had things to do? Why do I sometimes get the feelings that chance meetings weren't by chance at all, that there was something going on other than synchronicity?

Look at your Life - heck look at all our Lives because they're not so different after all. Things happen in the past to us, they change the course of our Lives and we meet someone we otherwise wouldn't have and they lead us somewhere we wouldn't otherwise have gone. That takes us where we need to be, where we were always going. It's been said that religion is for those that are afraid of going to hell and Spirituality is for those that have been there. Someone setting off some event puts us on that road, we come across someone with a misaligned heart-centre and we 'go find God'.

So, why don't we like the idea of pre-ordained? Does it go against what we think of as Free Will or don't we like the idea of not having control or that we're just puppets on a string? If that is the case, does ego have more of a hold on us than we'd like to admit? I'm OK with the Universe as it is, I'm OK with not having truths that I have to put in glass cases and defend against all-comers. I'm OK with you not liking the concept of pre-ordained, But I have to Live with myself in my skin, and my heart tells me that's there's so much more to this than meets the eye. There's a lot of ingredients in this soup and none of the answers I've been given so far have resonated, so I'll stay with what I have for lack of a batter understanding. Just a single, random, tiny event can change the course of our Lives and the Lives of others so dramatically, how much of our Spiritual Development is down to nothing more than random chance?

I'm OK with my Life and the events in it being "Commensurate with Higher Self", does that mean my ego doesn't have so much of a hold on me, that I don't have control issues and that I can be a part of something greater than 'little old me'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Now I personally don't read trashy romance novels, hahaha. Not sure where that ref came from but it seemed an odd phrase to use in a serious conversation with another intelligent person. Most of the time, it's something to do with some men's fear, contempt or envy of the heart-centred wisdom many women have come to naturally and deeply, and rather organically, upon maturity. It's certainly available to men as well...it just requires that they lose the fear, envy and the contempt in particular, and live as most women live. Knowing every day you've got nothing in your pocket and it's not about the win. Ever. Seems to work for the mystics too.
Sorry, should have warned you that I'm a tad Pythonesque sometimes. That's where the 'trashy novels' comes from. The Universe is the way it is because people have made it that way, for good or bad. They're making their choices through their Free Will just the same as we are and if we don't like it what does it say about us? It's when we stop thinking the world is wrong that sometimes other things come through, which is the way my mind works. By the way, I'm very much a parallel thinker.

Men are naturally mind-centred and women are naturally heart-centred, it's the way things are but the problem is that up to now there hasn't been any kind of middle ground, not really. Homosexuality began to change that and gender realignment is making its own headway too but it's going to take generations before those are truly accepted into society. Heck, we've not long ago banned chemical castration and if it hadn't been for Alan Turing perhaps we'd still have it. People fear what they don't understand, it's really that simple - just as you say.

Life isn't a romance novel but then it's not supposed to be, if it was then it would be mundane and stagnant and not Life at all. No Spirit.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Myself, for reading I prefer nonfiction, spiritual works old and new, and sci-fi with deep, hard-core social commentary built in. But, along those lines you mention, authentic love is also not the stuff of porn either, hahaha And so why was that left off your list? Is it because it is so massively, globally, pervasively tied in with our social and personal misalignment, and with many other serious social and personal sicknesses? And because it's still quite difficult for many to break the secrecy of the bro code and call it for what it is? LOL...hahaha.
Ooh noooo, gotta do non-fiction because it stirs the imagination. Sci-fi with the commentary certainly, and especially when it explores the deep consciousness. Stuff like 2001: A Space Odyessy and BladeRunner being the classics. I've done all of Lord of the Rings - books, movies.... and currently it's the Eragon books.

I wasn't sure if I should mention porn, one of the reasons being the disparity of our views. When I was a young lad I was in the RAF, and close to the base there was a bar where they did a seniors evening that used to be frequented by older women. We used to call it 'grab a granny night', older, experienced women and hormonal young guys - quite a heady mix. But you know, there was always something very different below the surface and it wasn't always just physical, although neither us nor the women were under any illusions.

That's one place I've gone that you and a few others would probably frown upon but y'know, I have no regrets. For most of my Life there has been the intuition of what's far below the surface. If there is iniquity or immorality it's 'in here' and it's contrary to the way the Universe is, and I have to either Live with that contradiction or change it.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I've said it before and I am the first to say openly it's sick and twisted that modern society so openly and cycnically exploits men's vulnerabilities, for profit, for spiritual degradation and misdirection, and importantly for social control of otherwise free men.

Likewise, society has always - throughout history - exploited women's vulnerabilities, which are especially a woman's physical weaknesses and vulnerabilities. This is not new -- exploiting women's weakness is built into the fabric of our imbalance and ultimately our unsustainability as a species, if we continue. It's well known that women will sustain abuse, oppression, prostitution, rape, sexual exploitation, and many other indignities and traumas to accommodate and nurture their children. This reflects nothing other than the lack of healthy options globally for women in pursuit of our need for love and family, and importantly, for children.

I think it's absolutely the case that women will need to stand against everything society says they are, and against what society says they deserve. And then yes, I would say that in this regard, women have a role to play, in saying no and in setting boundaries for their basic dignity, for the most basic level of regard and respect. But this will, as you say, probably take at least a few generations to play out...and probably a few centuries. Look at the backlash against minorities and women getting rights over the last century. It's bad. We're still seen as uppity for saying no, we don't want to be used and degraded, like chattel. Often, this stance results in brutality and violence against any or all women by some men, but particularly against the women they know who may take a stand. Minorities often see the same thing.
The more things change the more they stay the same. We're still slaves, slavery is wearing different clothes but we're still slaves after a fashion because we're slaves to the nine-to-five, slaves to the latest cellphones, slaves to social rules.... So that's what, two thousand-plus years it's been going on and it's still happening? As a species that seems to be hell-bent on destroying itself we're quite good at surviving, aren't we? Everything you mentioned here has been going on since the depths of time immemorial and it hasn't changed any - and not just with women neither. Three world wars, only 100 years of peace in our entire history and we're still here.

And you'd be surprised how prevalent female abuse on men is but few people talk about that because it's not the 'done thing'. I was always brought up to treat women with respect and dignity and one of my ex-partners used that against me. She'd use psychology, emotional blackmail and threats or beat me because she knew I wouldn't hit her back, but when I restrained her she called the police.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
No one will deny that women will need to come to this place of total fearlessness as a woman, risking even basic survival, to stand on her own in the face of threats to her life and livelihood -- and in this way, she can set her own boundaries and ask for what she feels is true and right, for a change. But it's absolutely what will be required...almost no deep social change has ever come about without a lot of blood, and not without a lot of hostile, aggressively inflicted retribution and punishment from those in power-over who cannot stand granting any recognition of full autonomy to others.

Nonetheless, all this said, we all know that to those whom more is given, more is asked. The lion's share of the responsibility for the situation on the ground, as well as engaging in change and in solutions, always goes to those already in positions of power-over. They bear the lion's share of the responsibility...and ideally, they will choose to take ownership and contribute to a better, more equitable, more sustainable future. And with less blood and hostile aggression by their hands in the process. Globally, this means men still need to take primary ownership as they still have the lion's share of social, economic, and physical power and control. Of course, many are not yet at the point of taking any ownership...hence the ad nauseaum justifications of the status quo. Not surprising, just extremely tedious and often dangerous as well.
I don't know what the answer is or even if one exists. It's easy to say that it should be this way or that yet it persists and has done for millennia, and it might last a few more yet. Perhaps what we need is a Precipice Principle where we're faced with a precipice in front of us and the options are to turn it all around or get pushed off the cliff. Until such time as it's always going to be about power and control, and the haves and the have-nots. But without the little people giving away their control the ones in power would have none, being disenfranchised and unempowered is a matter of choice and the ownership should be taken of that as well.

The more things change the more it stays the same.

Someone once told me that if you want to understand Spirit you have to think like Spirit, Spirit made the choice to come here so does that mean we're missing something? You could put it all down to man's inhumanity but for me there's always something very different going on, something behind the mask.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
We need to find a sustainable way forward together. And as women find a voice, we're going to be calling for more ownership by men. And as more women continue to find the strength to risk everything they are, their very lives included, we will continue to take ownership for who we are, and to claim the dignity and respect -- as people and as individuals first and foremost -- that we know is our human right. Women know they are equal to men in all ways except physical strength, even if we are different in some ways.
The tide is turning, granted it's not as full-on as it could be but it's there just the same. What you're saying about women isn't just about women, it can also be about pretty much anyone who isn't the male stereotype and I think this is where the roots lie. Some people are still struggling to come to terms with cross-dressing and make-up, never mind anything else. There are so many people of both sexes feeling and being subjected to the things you say women are, some of them just because they don't wear the same clothes or think the same way. It happens in Spirituality too, as people come on the boards and post about how they find it difficult to converse with Spiritual people.

What chance has humanity of addressing the problems you're highlighting when Spiritual people can't talk to 'mundanes' and think they have a higher purpose?

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
And men are going to come to know it, too...and not just regarding their daughters or their wives. But regarding all women.
Some may deny it from here to eternity...and many men are at present fighting this tooth and nail, because they cannot bear taking ownership nor facing the reality of our equality in spirit and in all manifest ways aside from strength. It is this simple recognition of our equal humanity that has been an eternity to date in coming and which has still not yet arrived. It is this simple recognition of our humanity that we as women must be and increasingly are willing to die for.
But nevertheless, she persisted.
When I hear these words, I am literally moved to tears
I am becoming the woman I always loved and respected as a man (after that first **** life as a man when I could barely find my goods with both hands no doubt, LOL...).
And I see so, so many who walk with me shoulder-to-shoulder. And I welcome all others to join us, and we will join you.

And now...I look around for those men whom I would equally respect in fellowship, whether as a man OR as a woman.
I welcome you...we all welcome you...with much warm, appreciation, and solidarity. As we hope you will welcome us.
It takes a lot of courage to live in the real with nothing in your pocket, to take ownership, and to persist in courageous and loving word and deed, nevertheless.

I'll get back to you with proper responses later. Just throwing some thoughts out there now.

Peace & blessings mate
7L
Yep, I've had my spells of iniquity in the past and times of base lust on one-night stands but y'know? I'm glad I had them because there was always something deeper beyond the physical lust. And quite frankly I don't give much of a damn about the 'rules' and ethics about that being right or wrong because there was a much deeper ethic at work. So if that makes me the 'bad guy' that disrespects women I really don't care, there's always something beyond rule-based ethics where angels fear to tread and people like me are free from the punishment-based concepts of karma. But then I was asked to join a women's support group on an advisory capacity by the admins because of the ad hoc support I'd given in another group.

I can't change the world and evangelising isn't my thing, but I have the wisdom to recognise what I can change and what I can't. What I can't change I have to find a way to come to terms with because I have to Live with what's inside my skin. As has everyone else around me. What I can change I find to courage to in whatever shape or form I can. Yesterday daughter-in-law got jiggy with the power tools because I refused to, but independence is something she badly needs if she's to live on her own.

One person at a time, one step at a time.
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  #204  
Old 24-07-2017, 09:35 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Hey there Greenslade and thanks for your response :). I think my thoughts are already in my longer reply from yesterday at 1:10, right above your last ;)

Peace and blessings
7L
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  #205  
Old 25-07-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Hey there Greenslade and thanks for your response :). I think my thoughts are already in my longer reply from yesterday at 1:10, right above your last ;)

Peace and blessings
7L


Good afternoon 7luminaries

I thought that was a novella
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Old 25-07-2017, 01:00 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Hey there muffin nice to see you!

It sorta was
And l reckoned all my replies were already in there :)

Peace & Blessings,
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #207  
Old 30-07-2017, 10:50 PM
Greenslade
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I apologise for not replying sooner, one of those times when Life gets in the way of Spirituality - or at least the talking about it. Picking up the slack from my opposite number being on holiday, a friend having died from cancer and another suicidal but sharing a bottle of single malt usually brings him around again. Oh well, c'est la vie.. c'est la guerre.
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Greenslade, hello there! Well...as I see it...
This is not about you or me, or anyone else per se. It's about all of us, equally. Nor is this is about being lazy or whining or wishing for a bed of roses, LOL...

You're talking to a single mum, sole support, works with analytics, logic, code, and numbers in a largely male (and foreign) field, who has done a lot of unofficial search and rescue in the past, who has risked her life for others many times. I've also brought life into this world and nurtured it there and it all my close relationships.

We've all made concrete changes in the lives of others...including with love as well saving lives. No disrespect but neither you nor anyone else gets to dress me down in this regard, LOL. I know for a fact I have as least as much generosity, courage, and stamina than the vast majority of men I've met, both emotionally and physically. I also have a deep connection with spirit...precisely because of my courage, strength, and faith.

Again, we're having a serious discussion and in the context of where we are on our journeys, it should be mutually understood that no one here lacks spiritual strength or courage or fortitude for the journey and the challenges. Too many men in our society already assume that women's physically weakness implies they are also inferior spiritually, emotionally, and/or intellectually. This is false...and it's time to consciously confront these common social assumptions, so that we can deconstruct them and begin to move past them to a common place of truth and love.

I realise back in the day, a woman was often not permitted by society and those she knew to be fully her own person. She was often infantilised even, in wealthier circles. But that's largely a thing of the distant past in the West. Today it's quite different. The days when a man could unconditionally presume his superiority over women -- aside from things involving brute strength -- are long gone. And many men need to severely check themselves and consciously strive to remember this -- even if in most times they still get the bigger reward and recognition day-to-day and even if they are still largely in power-over positions.

This is not about questioning spirit because "some of ye" (LOL) are too weak or lazy or naive to suck it up and deal with life, hahaha...No, actually this is about standing for a penetrating enquiry of the self, of others, and of society. This is about growing up...it's beginning the process of asking ourselves the hard questions, and leaving excuses and justifications to the side.

I feel you've been missing my focus at times, due to what appear to be various assumptions you may have made. I also think you might consider challenging or questioning many of those assumptions, as they simply don't fit me or many other women worldwide.

But as I see it, it's very clear that what has been up to now doesn't every justify continuation of what is now OR in future. Nor does what is now magically perpetuate what is, in future. We choose. We take decisions. We co-create what is in every now moment going forward...and it is our responsibility to do so, as well as our great joy and our beloved work of service.
No dressing down and no assumptions. Really, all we can do is come from where our own feet are and any world/Universe view is just that - a view. While we may think we have the answers, do we really? How much of the world/Universe do we really see. perceive? And yes I'll put myself there too.

I see things differently, I perceive things very differently and y'know, I'm not going to chastise myself for that because I have no intention of trying to fit myself into the mainstream if that's what doesn't work for me. Superiority over doesn't just happen to women it happens across the board to everyone. It happens to everyone that's 'different'.

No I'm not missing your focus I just don't have the same one.

I don't have the power to change the world, perhaps this is one of my Karmic Obligations or whatever. I have to power to change what I can change and I have the wisdom to recognise the difference. And I also understand where the battle is, and what it is. That doesn't mean I'm unaffected by it all because there are many things that affect me. I saw photos of homosexuals strung up from a crane in the streets by terrorists and the world stayed silent, while it affected me deeply. We have a transgender person who is afraid to look people in the eye because they're afraid they might see or say something. We have a young lad at work who isn't quite sure of his identity and that shows because he pretty much broadcasts it. I won't look him in the eye because I've been told a few times that people often feel as though I see into their Souls. This isn't just happening in my town it's happening on a global scale.

I start with the person not the gender and I don't make assumptions but I take my time to get to know them. Everyone has their own depths regardless of age, gender, background, Spirituality..... I can't change the world, I can't change society. All I can change is how I deal with people, that's it. You'll have to excuse me if I don't evangelise but we all have our own experiences after all and I've seen the other side of the coin. I know all about power-over, I know all about women having power-over and sometimes that wasn't so nice. I'm not immune to it I just don't let it affect me any more - I don't let power-over in general affect me.

But then, do I give you examples of how I've addressed the issues you're highlighting here and risk being told I'm dressing you down? And who's making the assumptions? I've done the 'power-over' bit and with women and all I can do is hope that I've planted at least a seed that they've carried with them. They'll always find themselves in similar situations again - that's pretty inevitable but if they're better able to deal with it then it's been worth it.

I spent a few years in the against child abuse arena and did the 'good fight' bit until I understood what the fight was really about. After that I gave it all up and stopped banging my head against a brick wall. Regardless of how we perceive the Universe, the world, society, our neighborhood..... it begins and ends with us.


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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I love that insight
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
. My response would be, let's talk about why we think that irritated snot has worth ('cause it's materially valuable, right?), and explore how far that takes us, and where we are today as a result.

Then we can explore what has real [authentic, eternal] worth -- and then maybe the conversation can generate some real movement across the collective.

Truthfully, I don't think the heart needs loads or aeons of non-love to recognise love. That's not how it works I think it's immediately resonant. The less non-love we try to justify or rationalise, the more we free ourselves to do and be and give and receive love. Authentic love.

All the dumb **** stuff...and especially the consciously hostile, agressive stuff we do...it's just acting out and refusing to be who we are, to do as we call ourselves to do at centre, to live as we call ourselves to live at centre. In alignment with spirit.
Thank you, and sometimes I wonder where else it can be applied. How many pearls do we have inside ourselves, irritations that have been covered up?

What if there was nothing but authentic Love, what would happen then? Well, we wouldn't be having this conversation for a kick-off. There would be no forgiveness because nobody would be doing anything to need forgiven for, no sympathy or empathy for the victim - no victim, no perpetrator and all the other stuff around that. No development - Spiritual or personal.

And through it all; the abuse, rape, power-over, oppression... Spirit still makes the choice to come here just the same, knowing full well that it's not going to be sunshine and roses. Suffering trauma and pain comes with the territory and here we are just the same.

It's been said that we explore themes over various incarnations, perpetrator in one Lifetime and victim in the next. That same theme is brought a little closer to Life in Battlestar Galactica and while it's sci-fi I often find more Spirituality in sci-fi than I do in Spirituality vids/YouTubes. But it's something that resonates with me - "All this has happened before and it will happen again." People take on different roles to gain alternate perspectives; things I began in Atlantis and before coming back around, tying up the loose ends and meeting people again, for the first time.

Regardless of how we see this reality Spirit still makes the choice to come here anyway. Straight away that tells me that something else is going on beyond our human understanding. Right here, right now is all I have and the choices and differences I make. If there is no hurt, no pain then what is there to honour or empathise with?


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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
That's you and that's great. I do understand you. But I would never justify the suffering or perpetration of harm and misalignment on others because either you or I dealt with it and we feel it was all to the good. Everything is all to the good over the span of eternity. That's a given and says nothing about our responsibilities and our choices in each now moment.

Also we all deal, else we break or we die. That's also a given and that too says nothing about our responsibility for our choices. It says nothing about our responsibility for our words and deeds and their impact on self/others. We cannot presume that our perspectives, or Spirit, etc., are ever any more important or valid than that of others who cry out to say, "NO, stop the oppression...stop the perpetration of abuse, the rape, the exploitation...we are suffering trauma and pain."

Our blood is not redder, nor is Spirit "en masse" or as One any more valid or important or worthy than ANY SINGLE person or any single experience. So IMO we cannot presume we know that the suffering of others is justified or planned or OK. And therefore we cannot deprecate or dismiss their suffering at our hands or the hands of others.
How other perceive their experiences is entirely up to them, either "Nihil illegitamus carborundum" (don't let the illegitimates grind you down) or succumb. What I know for sure is that I've Lived my Life and did what I've done. Given the options I'd do it all over again. I'd become incarnate, have the same experiences and forget that I ever made that choice all to have the same outcomes. It feels right, it feels OK - it feels real to me. And logic be damned because I have to Live in my own skin. How others see their Paths is up to them but the belief that our earthly existence is pre-planned isn't an isolated belief by any means. As with all beliefs, what we believe isn't as enlightening as the reasons we believe it.


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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I get what you are saying, but I don't exactly agree with your assessment of how we come to empathy. IMO we come to empathy by caring for the well-being of others, by caring for their feelings, their thoughts and words and deeds, by caring for their dignity and their honour....We come to empathy by loving the self, loving others, and loving Spirit. I feel empathy for them as a human being and as a soul. But if my heart is hard or closed or numb, then it might be hard to muster empathy for anyone, since I cannot even give myself any.
And if nothing happens to hurt our feelings, what is there to empathise with? We don't emapthise with happy, shiny people.

Yes exactly, if your heart is closed and numb... How many closed. numb hearts are out there, people who can't empathise with themselves and therefore can't with others? How we treat others is often how we feel inside- we give pain because we feel it and sometimes it's a cry for help - a Soul reflecting out.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
LOL...good example!
Thank you, and there's something quite freeing in that.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Daz mentioned on the other thread regarding where he was at. He discussed that it involved spending time regularly doing meditative and healing work. Also that he was experiencing great growth and change, and he mentioned that it is not necessary to reincarnate to undergo transformative or meaningful change in the self. Along those lines :) Although he didn't elaborate further so there's still some mystery there ;)
So he'd rather play his cards close eh? That's OK. It's true though, we do 'reincarnate' over and over in this Life. Every cell in our bodies dies and is replaced, so every once in a while there is a completely new physical you. We do the same Spiritually sometimes, often all it takes is a few words that sparks something off in our paradigm and everything changes for us. We just need to stop holding onto ourselves and our beliefs so much, there is no stone and nothing to write with.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
There is some of that and you can see it, for certain, but that is *definitely* not true of many awakened folks Greenslade. Only some.

You know who clearly is still afraid of the dark? Any and everyone who can't self-reflect honestly OR who can't reflect honestly about the culture they live in, and the world they live in, and how much of that they accept thoughtlessly or reject/transform consciously. IMO, if we cannot call it like it is and talk about what's real and where we're at...and OWN it freely, then YES, we are petrified Bro code, the harshly addictive and degraded aspects of mainstream culture, etc...totally petrified of the dark, LOL.

Justification of the misaligned as to the good over eternity is dismissive and dehumanising of the reality of real folks right now. And I completely agree it is hugely based on fear. Fear of owning who they are right now, and fear of the strength needed to either own it or to transmute it in the fire.
To be honest I don't hold much store in definitions like 'awake', what's much more 'enlightening' is asking what we're awake to. The really scary stuff is not being awake to what we're not awake to.

As Gandhi said, "You need to be the changes you want to see" and I very much agree with that because the Universe is a reflection of you. I can't change the world and quite frankly, would I anyway? If I had a magic wand, would I use it? Or would that be against someone's Free Will? I don't have that information, I don't know if what that person is going through is a part of their Life Purpose or just some random event. I just know that it's their reality as it is, and right here and right now here we are. I can own me, I can own how I act and hopefully it'll 'rub off' on others. Or not as the case may be.

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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Right here, that's what I don't agree with...with all due respect to you. I don't think we ever..ever..ever choose to explore non-love. We simply are not always skilled enough or experienced enough in the way of authentic love to manifest that love in healthy, sustainable ways.
With as much respect for you I have to disagree. As humans we don't always enter relationships for Love, sometimes it's for so many reasons other than.


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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
G - thank you for your thoughts here...I agree with a lot of your discussion of causes and of the state of things at present.

Here - she's right BUT you do have knowledge of this as a man...your lives as a woman and as man reside with your higher self and you will have access to what you need of each when you seek it purely and/or when you are ready for it. Often I seek it before I am perhaps fully ready for it, hahaha...and then I play catchup :) I am learning how to steer the fire of my drive for Spirit but it has a will of its own.

We have all been men and women, 99% of us, as I understand it...and I completely agree that access to both sets of experiences is crucial to fully getting what it is to be human, centred, and balanced...to be compassionate and loving and just and strong...from both ways of knowing.

Here - I will say women are more widely encouraged to explore integrity of heart...and men should be as well - it's tragic and wrong that this is typically not the case and we can do better. Also, being limited physically, women have an innate understanding of limitation, humility, faith, and grace...which yields an innate understanding of the primacy and wisdom of authentic love. Of the way of the heart AND of bringing the awakened mind in service to heart.

Men can and DO certainly attain this same place once they open themselves to that same primacy of the way of humility, heart centre, authentic love, and of the awakened heart-led conciousness. Men do have to choose, at least to continue to turn toward heart and spirit and to open to it from a place of humility and faith...that is free will. No one is going to do it for you. But it's certainly true that we could love and support one another in these ways as a society, instead of actively exploiting men's weaknesses.

But it's very important to remember that women do not abrogate mind or intellect simply by choosing the heart-led consciousness. It's never an either/or thing. We do typically understand that mind and intellect are limited means of apprehending existence and spirit. And they cannot bring us to love nor to the core of anything authentic and eternal. Mind is a tool to be used in service to heart. The tool cannot tell you who you are ;) and so the tool is never meant to be "in charge". That is wisdom. However, if women have sought to downplay or limit development of the mind simply because men devalued them aside from the sex and helpmeet aspects, it's on women to do what they need to do in order to strengthen and develop the mind. Everyone needs a good set of tools to get their work done
I can't help but wonder how all this gender identification and what you're saying here meet each other. My 'problem' has always been that the Universe isn't black-and-white but shades of grey somewhere in the no-man's-land. Physically I'm male and have always identified as a male but underneath often there's more of a bi-gender identification where sometimes 'traits' of either or creep through. I'm not quite one nor the other so I'm not quite sure where centred or balanced comes in. I understand the concepts but I;m just not sure they're applicable, it's more of a what's needed at the time than anything else.

I have no memories of having been female, they've all been male and I'm told that this is my final existence on this level. After this who knows? Perhaps we're I'm going next won't have a distinct male/female thing going on.

In all honesty I very much am how you describe women - "Being limited physically, women have an innate understanding of limitation, humility, faith, and grace...which yields an innate understanding of the primacy and wisdom of authentic love." That's certainly true of me and I've never felt quite 100% male - whatever that may feel like. Strangely enough i was told that I walk two Paths and perhaps this is another aspect of that. Certainly with Spirituality I've always embraced both the Spiritual and the 'mundane', and often showed what many would call female traits. Very emotional, intuition-based and don't give much of a hoot for logic or mind-centredness unless it serves a purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
G - your sick stepdad had a soul, no doubt. He had iniquities and challenges...and he failed to rise to them. I'm so sorry. His soul plan was to struggle with himself, to rise to the struggle, and to grow from it, such that he could have been a decent and loving man to you and all he knew. IMO that is always, always, always the plan. He fell short of his own soul challenges...and the result is always misalignment and very often much trauma to self and others.

You've made it work but I have no doubt, none at all, that you would have found challenges and meaning in life regardless had you not suffered his brutality. I do NOT think your growth or goodness, any of it, had to do with this man or that it was reliant on this man. Instead, you dealt and used that opportunity to be who you are, just as you would have done regardless, in other settings and other opportunities. Still, there's nothing like making some lemonade at times, is there? :)
The problem with belief systems is that they are belief systems. I often find that the Universe has an uncommon knack of reflecting back at me, so I'll mill something around on my head, come to a conclusion and find something to verify that. I think what we need to do as humans is to move past the whole idea of good and bad, and when we do that the Universe makes more sense - or at least a little less out to get you.

But did he rise to the struggle in the end? Was it his Soul Plan to rise to the challenge and what was the challenge? I don't know for sure, all any of us can do is surmise within our own beliefs. All I know for sure is that's what happened, beliefs aside. I also know that he did rise to certain challenges in the end because he was pretty much up against it as far as I can work out from his history and family. He had his moments as a father, no matter how few and far between they were. While I don't condone his actions they made a difference to my Life. The thing is, if there was a Soul inside and he was doing those things then how does the Soul feel about it? What is the Soul conscious of, and if it's so 'bad' and there is such a thing as synchronicity are we completely missing something?

I haven't been given any kind of an answer other than opinions and I want to know and understand. What I don't need is another set of contradictory beliefs.

He did change me for the better. At that time in my Life my maiden great-aunt was having an antagonistic influence and she hated him - and made it obvious. He was the one my mother married and who took me away from her - I spent the first three years of my Life with her because my mother had to move out of her tied house. Had I stayed with her I would have been a spoiled, arrogant brat. I can't say if that would have played out somewhere along the line in other situations or not, I only know it didn't. For all he tried to beat out of me he didn't succeed, if anything he made me more stubborn. For the rest of my Life I've made the 'bad stuff' work for me instead of against me, it's certainly taken me on this Journey to Self.

Yes it is pre-ordained in that there is a plan - call it Soul Plan, Life's Purpose....and we're all going to get there one way or another. How we get there is optional, and how we come through the experiences then changes our core frequencies. If we 'learn the lessons' then we either come to the stage where we don't need them any more, or how we experience them is very different. They cease to be 'toxic' and they become something we need to get through, to learn from. I'm comfortable with my own experiences having been pre-ordained and I've seen YouTubes that say something similar. Random chance just doesn't work for me. I also believe that Unconditional Love in action is when one Soul has decided to have a 'toxic' experience and another Soul has agreed to participate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Well met indeed, friend...but no worries, I'm not bored yet Suppose it's to do with how challenging all this actually is, when you manifest and make it concrete, hahaha! Not as easy as looks from the other side, no doubt LOL!

Peace & blessings,
7L
Everything looks different from this side, perhaps that's the whole point of it. But regardless of who is right. wrong, off their trolley I have one advantage - I have a bag of marbles I carry with me everywhere. Seriously though, it just feels 'solid'.
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  #208  
Old 31-07-2017, 02:46 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Hey there Greenslade. Hahaha...well, I really have enjoyed our conversations, truly...however I have observed that I have time and time again apparently communicated just very, very poorly with you. I see by your responses that you've misunderstood and thus misrepresented a good deal of what I've set out to explain or put forth, no matter how I've tried to approach it -- for which I take the lion's share of the responsiblity. I have simply not been successful in adequately stating my thoughts so that you could grasp them clearly and respond to them with my meaning intact. So with all due respect, I feel it's probably not worth giving it another go right at this moment. Perhaps a bit later, elsewhere, at some other time and place.

I fully assume the fault is probably largely mine, because I know that email and remote comm is my weakest medium, and frankly it stinks but it's what we have here. Meaning time and time again I cannot get my point across to you accurately and your response indicates a fairly complete misunderstanding of my statement as it was intended. And thus your reply is sometimes not to me at all...it's unfortunately often intended more for someone else whose words had been accurately taken and meant what it was you spoke to. Just one of those weird things...

C'est la vie. Meanwhile, I acknowledge that you are where you are, and I am where I am. It's all good. It does not mean that my experiences are "belief systems" whilst yours are "real", as in eternal truth, hahaha...nor vice versa, either, of course.

Rather, let's just potentially agree to disagree on many things (since we've not really clearly understood each other, as far as I can see), aside from acceptance of what is and what has gone before...for that's simple truth and we are called to accept what is, whether it was/is aligned to spirit and love or whether it was/is not. Simple acceptance of what is must and will occur before we can take any meaningful steps forward on our paths and look to the next moment, taking choices to create what is yet to come. Of course, it is our interbeing and interconnected collective weight and sum of choices taken at all levels that yield the sum total and I've never suggested that taking personal ownership did otherwise. Otherwise, it looks like you've got it well sorted and so there's not much else to say, is there? Certainly not from little ole me, hahaha!

Though I will try once more to clarify one or two things that I really would like to state clearly, such that hopefully you might take the meaning more truly and as intended. Just in case, it's worth a try.

I meant as souls that I believe (and as with all my beliefs they are based on my own experiential knowing, particularly from my past lives)....I believe we never choose to come into incarnation to experience or be or give anything other than love, regardless of the situation or what it is we're working through. Of course, it's precisely whilst incarnated that we are challenged to rise to the situation, to our iniquities, and so forth. And it's there either we or others either rise to it, or else we or they may fail to rise to the situation and behave in ways that are brutal, cruel, and inhumane.

Oh right..the other point I meant to clarify. Rest assured, though, you were not always a man Not unless this is your first go-round or unless you are unlike all other incarnated creatures in existence, hahaha !!! One day, when you are ready (or willing...as is usually what is first with me), you will remember. And then you will understand more fully. Of that I can guarantee you. That's pretty much how it all works, and why we all tread these paths as both men and women -- regardless of orientation. Regardless of specific orientation, the difference between incarnating as male versus as female is so large a gap, that words do not readily suffice to capture the enormity of the difference in the experience. Even for the guides I channel liberally in most of my responses here on SF, the words are insufficient, LOL. Maybe I'll get back to you on that one if they give me something further on that, but it's probably of little to no interest to you at this time, based on what you've said your focus and memories are at this time.

Off to bed...and thanks again for the courteous conversation -- a very interesting exchange, on many levels. And thanks once again for your thoughts and any kind words sent my way.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 31-07-2017 at 03:56 AM.
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  #209  
Old 05-08-2017, 12:38 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Hey there Greenslade. Hahaha...well, I really have enjoyed our conversations, truly...however I have observed that I have time and time again apparently communicated just very, very poorly with you. I see by your responses that you've misunderstood and thus misrepresented a good deal of what I've set out to explain or put forth, no matter how I've tried to approach it -- for which I take the lion's share of the responsiblity. I have simply not been successful in adequately stating my thoughts so that you could grasp them clearly and respond to them with my meaning intact. So with all due respect, I feel it's probably not worth giving it another go right at this moment. Perhaps a bit later, elsewhere, at some other time and place.

I fully assume the fault is probably largely mine, because I know that email and remote comm is my weakest medium, and frankly it stinks but it's what we have here. Meaning time and time again I cannot get my point across to you accurately and your response indicates a fairly complete misunderstanding of my statement as it was intended. And thus your reply is sometimes not to me at all...it's unfortunately often intended more for someone else whose words had been accurately taken and meant what it was you spoke to. Just one of those weird things...

C'est la vie. Meanwhile, I acknowledge that you are where you are, and I am where I am. It's all good. It does not mean that my experiences are "belief systems" whilst yours are "real", as in eternal truth, hahaha...nor vice versa, either, of course.
I suppose this is what happens when two irrepressible Spirits come together. Just to let you into a little secret - and I don't do this intentionally - sometimes I 'talk' to the Soul and not the person. And you'll probably have your own conceptions of that so it's all to the good too. Regardless of the interaction and how it plays out I always try and gain something, and this one is no exception.

By the way, I don't do truths of any kind because the truth is relative to one's own agenda and evidence is what's taken to support those truths. I tend to look for what is true in context. Someone once said that the truth is like a pointing finger that points to the moon. Well, the finger belonged to agenda and the moon turned out to be made of cheese, and the discarded packets had a picture of Dr Seuss.

We had an energy exchange, to me far more valuable than words or point/counterpoint and not an oyster snot-encrusted annoyance at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Rather, let's just potentially agree to disagree on many things (since we've not really clearly understood each other, as far as I can see), aside from acceptance of what is and what has gone before...for that's simple truth and we are called to accept what is, whether it was/is aligned to spirit and love or whether it was/is not. Simple acceptance of what is must and will occur before we can take any meaningful steps forward on our paths and look to the next moment, taking choices to create what is yet to come. Of course, it is our interbeing and interconnected collective weight and sum of choices taken at all levels that yield the sum total and I've never suggested that taking personal ownership did otherwise. Otherwise, it looks like you've got it well sorted and so there's not much else to say, is there? Certainly not from little ole me, hahaha!
I can only sort myself out and in doing that sort others out and make my own little difference my own little way. We are 'infectious' and regardless of how I think the rest of the Universe will do what it's going to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Though I will try once more to clarify one or two things that I really would like to state clearly, such that hopefully you might take the meaning more truly and as intended. Just in case, it's worth a try.
C'mon, gimme that bone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I meant as souls that I believe (and as with all my beliefs they are based on my own experiential knowing, particularly from my past lives)....I believe we never choose to come into incarnation to experience or be or give anything other than love, regardless of the situation or what it is we're working through. Of course, it's precisely whilst incarnated that we are challenged to rise to the situation, to our iniquities, and so forth. And it's there either we or others either rise to it, or else we or they may fail to rise to the situation and behave in ways that are brutal, cruel, and inhumane.
I've never disagreed with you, where we part company is how that's played out in 'real' Life. Yes we're challenged to rise to the occasion - Nihil Illegitamus Carborundum and all that. However, those 'iniquities are as much a part of the 'equation' too, because if they weren't there then what would we have to rise from? Spirit isn't stupid, we knew as Spirit that this Journey wasn't going to be sunshine and roses yet here we are just the same. You're a person of logic so you tell me, as Spirit would you have come here if you knew what it was like before you 'signed up'? If you didn't know what it was going to be like, what does that say about what we project onto Spirit? The other option is to throw even common sense aside for the sake of dogma - not my thing, man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Oh right..the other point I meant to clarify. Rest assured, though, you were not always a man Not unless this is your first go-round or unless you are unlike all other incarnated creatures in existence, hahaha !!! One day, when you are ready (or willing...as is usually what is first with me), you will remember. And then you will understand more fully. Of that I can guarantee you. That's pretty much how it all works, and why we all tread these paths as both men and women -- regardless of orientation. Regardless of specific orientation, the difference between incarnating as male versus as female is so large a gap, that words do not readily suffice to capture the enormity of the difference in the experience. Even for the guides I channel liberally in most of my responses here on SF, the words are insufficient, LOL. Maybe I'll get back to you on that one if they give me something further on that, but it's probably of little to no interest to you at this time, based on what you've said your focus and memories are at this time.
I don't know if I was a woman at any stage in the game, but then how we see the nature of our reality is very different.

You've been given your answers and if you want to write them in stone, then all power to you. Personally I don't like answers, unless they bring the next set of questions. I don't have much truck with what's been touted as The Truth but instead prefer to 'navigate' possibilities and allow my thoughts to wander without any agenda or purpose. And all consciousness is consciousness just the same, whether it's what resonates with me or if it's fanciful imagination.

I have things in my head that would take a long time to explain, the basis of that is Gestalt Reality where we are individuated aspects and not individual Souls. That to me changes all the 'rules' and this is where my perspective comes from. Few people are willing to even consider the possibility but to me that's the curse of a vivid and parallel-thinking mind in a forum where most minds are column-thinking. What you're having trouble with is what I've always been used to, that great no-man's-land between here and there.

Really there are too many questions around gender and other things that just don't make any sense to restrain it to anything purely physical, being honest. While you may have your answers I don't have anything close.

I was sitting milling something over in my mind one day when my Guide popped into my head. "What is the Spirituality of sitting on the toilet?" That's the kind of thing I thrive on because it's the kind of question that appeals to me on so many levels, and it's a 'seed' that grows and branches out in so many directions. Just that little question put so much into perspective so nicely.

So, if I'm a 'big girl's blouse' and very much emotional, heart-centred and intuitive - some of the 'feminine' attributes - does that make how I perceive the Universe more feminine or is it 'locked into' just the physical gender? How does it work with people who are one gender but identify with one or the other, or trans-sexuals? To me it doesn't sound entirely plausible if it's based on physical gender because our experience isn't based on just gender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Off to bed...and thanks again for the courteous conversation -- a very interesting exchange, on many levels. And thanks once again for your thoughts and any kind words sent my way.

Peace & blessings
7L
We tend to look after 'our own' even though in this 3D arena it sometimes doesn't always seem that way, but then there is such a thing as the collective consciousness after all and sometimes words are 'masks'. And considering where we've come from, spending time with you here and now has been awesome just the same.
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  #210  
Old 05-08-2017, 01:15 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
I meant as souls that I believe (and as with all my beliefs they are based on my own experiential knowing, particularly from my past lives)....I believe we never choose to come into incarnation to experience or be or give anything other than love, regardless of the situation or what it is we're working through.
Did you Love yourself enough to give yourself this experience?
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