I Am Christ

[athribiristan]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Great stuff michaelsherlock, I can see Christianity moving towards this way of thinking, no longer stuck in the old dead past, no longer needing to crawl to a man that supposedly lived over 2000 years ago. The story of Jesus is the story of many god men such as the Buddha, Krishna......

The early manuscripts were all taken from other beliefs and woven into the story of Jesus, all these stories are our story, they point to our own inner Being, call it the Christ, Buddha or whatever it makes no difference.

The trouble with present Christianity is that they are separating themselves from God, God being our true inner being, or Christ Consciousness. To the ignorant this is seen as blasphemy, when all the time they are the ones who are blaspheming. We are all One in Consciousness, to continue to see otherwise is to live in ignorance.

All religion does is separate, all believing that their religion is the true one, its time to end this childish game, its time to grow up and mature spiritually, its time to take what is your's, and that is your true Identity, the Christ.

When I say that I AM the Christ, I am saying at the same time that we are all the Christ, there is One Christ, One Consciousness, One Religion, this is what true Religion is. I want every individual to have his own religion–in other words his own lifestyle, his own philosophy–and to live according to his own deepening insight.

Don't let the ego of others, or the devil, tell you any different, they feel fear in this way of thinking, they are the ones who fear god and because of this, they will project their fear onto you.

Go out and tell the world of your new found Identity the Christ, be bold and never let anyone drag you down to their hell, for these are the one's that the Christ never knew.

Amen brother Slice. Once again you have saved me a lot of typing by totally nailing it.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

God's command to subdue the world can be fulfilled in medical science, in the battle against disease and other life threatening illnesses.

I wholeheartedly agree, I think it's very loving act to advance medical science. And also that can be a place where science and spirituallty merge, I've been amazed at how science is becoming more open to 'alternate' therapies. There are probably people of all beliefs that are working on that front, Christians being one of them I'd imagine because of the way they try to help the sick.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by athribiristan

Amen brother Slice. Once again you have saved me a lot of typing by totally nailing it.

Thank you brother athribiristan, it all just comes so easily when we are all ONE in Christ, words just flow from our inner Being, before when i thought that this Christ was separate from me, i could only repeat scripture, now I speak directly from the Source, or Christ Consciousness, as I know you do also.

Originally Posted by TeeHee

What I believe, is that I have encountered many who are Christ-like in life. And I have witnessed some, who make the claim that they are Christ, in the mental wards of medical facilities. It seems that they lost their identity in the good book, and after having talked to many of them, and by my observation when comparing them to how scripture described Jesus Christ, my conclusion is that they were not in Christ, but "out of their minds."

Hi TeeHee,

I would like to respond to your reply as best as I am able, so here goes!

Firstly, you say that you have encountered many who are “Christ-like” in your life.
I would like to enquire of you, what exactly you believe to be “Christ-like,” for there are thousands of different opinions on this matter alone, so I guess the best place to start is by clearing up that issue.
Quite often people project qualities they like onto those they admire or worship as the case may be. For some Christ has been an example of heresy, for others, he was a soldier, for others still he was a peaceful man, and yet for others he was not about bringing peace at all! So I guess we need to find out what projections you are placing on him to get a picture of where your psychology is at!

Secondly, you started your reply with the words “I believe!” Now, when we investigate that little phrase, we discover that it has been a rather misunderstood one throughout history. Belief has caused more suffering and injustice than both Crack Cocaine and Heroin combined! Just pick up any history book and this will become clear.

Remember that one’s beliefs are not matters of fact, but rather matters of choice. Once we decide to believe something, we not only stop thinking about it, but our mind is prevented, or at the very least, hindered from growing past that belief and assessing truth beyond our limited perception of it. The belief becomes our “false reality,” our “experience begetter,” our “map of reality,” and it should always be remembered that the map is not the territory itself, it represents merely our personal understanding of reality. There are also various psychological, neurological and sociological factors that cause beliefs to whittle the mind of the believer down to such a narrow point, to that of the “worm,” if you like, as King David allegedly described humanity! But we should not expect too much in the way of value from a worm, or someone with a worm-like mind, a mind stuck on one Meagher page of the book of life!

In your initial response you said of someone with a Christ-like mind that, they are completely “possessed” by the Holy Spirit! Now, this use of language is very interesting to me.

I would ask you these two rhetorical questions:

Have you ever wondered what it is that makes an otherwise peaceful and intelligent human being pick up a gun for either their nation, or their religion and slaughter a multitude of men women and children, all the while maintaining the belief that they are performing a righteous, or noble calling? Or what it is that compels an equally peaceful person to strap a bomb to themselves in order to decimate thousands of innocent bystanders, not to mention themselves? Both of these questions can be answered with a single word. Belief! It is belief that controls the mind and subsequent actions of the individual, who becomes possessed by ideas and thoughts dictated by external forces, be they political, religious, scientific or otherwise “normal/conventional”. Once possessed, the victim of the belief is capable of committing acts which, under more rational circumstances, they would deplore.

The next point you made in the latter response, was that from your first-hand experience, in speaking with people inside mental institutions, you discovered that those who claim to be Christ, were “out of their minds.” Now, have you really spoken with people inside these institutions and if so, in what capacity? I assume from your use of the saying “out of their minds,” that you are not a mental health professional, nor even work with people who have mental illnesses, so I am sincerely wondering when you have had the opportunity to speak with such people.

Also, keep in mind that in an insane world, it are the sane who are more often than not deemed insane. As the philosopher Krishnamurti once quipped; “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

Finally, I should like to clear up a misunderstanding. You seem to think that I have claimed to be Christ, but nowhere in my post did I make such a ridiculous claim! I do not believe myself to be Christ, Buddha, Zoroaster, Hercules, Asclepius, Superman, nor even, Neo from the Matrix! The title was intended to be read, as in; I (the reader) am Christ! Not I,(Michael), Am Christ! I agree that those who make such claims are more than likely deluded, just as those who believe in the Bible as God’s word, more than likely are too!

As the great Scholar Lemuel K. Washburn once said: “The injury to the human mind that reads the Bible as a reliable book is beyond repair”

History has certainly testified to this fact! If you would like evidence of it, just let me know!

I also noticed in your reply to Mayflow, that you quoted Descartes; “I think therefore I am!” I find this an interesting quote to be utilized by a believer, for by their very nature, they are not themselves. Therefore, as was the case with the Christian Descartes himself, when the believer says, “I think,” what they really mean is:

“I believe what someone else has thought, who has persuaded someone else, who, in turn has convinced another and on and on until this belief reached my mind, at which time I passively downloaded it like software and therefore, I am Not, but rather I am they that have thought for me!”

Here is a test: Who First humans? Why were they created? Were they created? How was the earth formed? Why were the stars made? Were the stars made? Why is there evil/sin in the world?
If any of your answers to the questions above have come from the Bible, then you are not yourself, but rather, an inauthentic clone of another, who is an inauthentic clone of yet another and so on and so on!

I look forward to hearing from you! Thank you for this discourse and I do concede that I could be totally wrong about what I have said!

Regards

Michael Sherlock

Originally Posted by michaelsherlock

Ok, so far you have not responded to the initial points and all you have given me is what those whoever they might have been, wrote the books of the bible, said! I want to know what YOU think, not what an old ethnocentric and outdated book says, besides I have read it many times and written out the first 5 books with commentary, so I am reasonably versed in what those books say and teach! That is not of interest to me, it is one group of holy texts in a sea of others!
You see, this is what I mean by inauthentic thought, you have not given me anything from your own brain, it is all programmed thought, thoughts which have been inserted into your mind by the belief perpetuators you depend on! It is now time to take responsibilty for your own mind and spirit and contribute to humanity, we need you, we are suffering down here, all hands on deck! So unclasp your hands for a few moments and grab a broom, there is a lot of cleaning that needs to be done, so get up, out of bed and help!

P.S I am a member of various Christian apologetic forums and so thank you for the further references, I will check them out!

Please do share your commentary on the first five books of Moses. I'd begin another thread (suggestion).

There is actually no evidence anywhere that the first 5 books of the Bible were written by somebody called Moses.

As far as is known, no Moses ever wrote anything and Jesus also has no record of having ever written anything.

Originally Posted by Mayflow

There is actually no evidence anywhere that the first 5 books of the Bible were written by somebody called Moses.

As far as is known, no Moses ever wrote anything and Jesus also there is no record of having ever written anything.

Jesus refers to the Pentateuch himself, referring to it as the Law of Moses.

Is there proof that Buddha wrote anything himself? If one were to ask a Buddhist if that is important, they probably would respond in a way to place emphasis on what is most important, the teachings.... Now ask a Christian the very same question, and you probably will get quite a different answer. Lemme know what your thoughts r, if you wish to share them.

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Jesus refers to the Pentateuch himself, referring to it as the Law of Moses.

Is there proof that Buddha wrote anything himself? If one were to ask a Buddhist if that is important, they probably would respond in a way to place emphasis on what is most important, the teachings.... Now ask a Christian the very same question, and you probably will get quite a different answer. Lemme know what your thoughts r, if you wish to share them.

Citing "Jesus" as a reference for the authenticity of the first "5 books of Moses" is not evidence that Moses wrote those books. It merely represents the opinions of the pseudopigraphical authors of the Gospels, not fact! We know that the Gospels were not only dishonestly ascribed to apostles and companions of apostles, but that their contents are also laced with forgeries. (if you want evidence for this statement, please let me know) Using these documents to support the authenticity of the Pentateuch is nonsensical!

Further, most rational scholars have abandoned the belief that Moses wrote the first five books of the Tanakh (Old Testament), for there are many problems with such a notion!

Those who expect us to "believe" that Moses wrote these books, also expect us to believe that Moses penned the following words;

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.
And there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face…
Deuteronomy 7-10

Notice that not only is it written in the third person past tense, but that it describes the events which followed his own death! Moreover, the saying "there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses" implies that alot of time had passed before this account would have been written.

Yet, the above is claimed by Jews and Christians alike, to have been written by Moses himself!

It is simply astounding what belief can do to the mind of the believer!

“The injury to the human mind that reads the Bible as a reliable book is beyond repair”
Lemuel K. Washburn

Edited by SF Staff

Originally Posted by michaelsherlock

Citing "Jesus" as a reference for the authenticity of the first "5 books of Moses" is not evidence that Moses wrote those books. It merely represents the opinions of the pseudopigraphical authors of the Gospels, not fact! We know that the Gospels were not only dishonestly ascribed to apostles and companions of apostles, but that their contents are also laced with forgeries. (if you want evidence for this statement, please let me know) Using these documents to support the authenticity of the Pentateuch is nonsensical!

Further, most rational scholars have abandoned the belief that Moses wrote the first five books of the Tanakh (Old Testament), for there are many problems with such a notion!

Those who expect us to "believe" that Moses wrote these books, also expect us to believe that Moses penned the following words;

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.
And there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face…
Deuteronomy 7-10

Notice that not only is it written in the third person past tense, but that it describes the events which followed his own death! Moreover, the saying "there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses" implies that alot of time had passed before this account would have been written.

Yet, the above is claimed by Jews and Christians alike, to have been written by Moses himself!


It is simply astounding what belief can do to the mind of the believer!

“The injury to the human mind that reads the Bible as a reliable book is beyond repair”
Lemuel K. Washburn

Ah, I see your point. They are the rational scholars, and that would mean that others are not. Perhaps you can share whether you believe that Jesus was rational and logical, or if not please share by reasons your belief. "It is simply astounding what belief can do to the mind of the believer! “The injury to the human mind that reads the Bible as a reliable book is beyond repair” Lemuel K. Washburn. I take it, this is your position, but do you have anything more original?

Question, do you believe, think, or hold to an opinion, in matters regarding the validity and ethics of the Old Testament, that is to say, Jesus had, by quoting often from it, said, "you have heard that it was said... but I tell you" in Matthew 6-7. Or are we, as stated earlier, to believe that Jesus was merely a fallible man and held no authority, giving validity to what is not true?

Lastly, you state that this is all myth (but I'm too lazy to go back over this thread and read your post) including Jesus, and that he's nothing but a mere man, one that lived two thousand years ago, or perhaps you meant a myth that developed two thousand years ago, anyhoot, my point is do you have an original idea in the case for non belief, or are your ideas centered around those that have lived before you, as I find a very similar parallel between what you have shared and that of Carl Jung.

Here is a question and answer given by Gotquestions.org, although the list of scholars that do not believe (the rational) Moses was the author were given, it is a good tid bit to know. Lastly, I've read some of the author Friedman, and especially enjoyed his commentary on the Torah. But, from what I do remember, he made a big stink out of the first big five of the Bible are, stating that it is not a book, but perhaps you can share his position on what it exactly is?

Question: "What is the Pentateuch?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/Pentateuch.html

Edited by SF Staff

A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.
We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks. But man’s resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view.