Finding a teacher.

#1 15-01-2018, 02:14 PM

Personally I will wait until the teacher shows up when I am ready.
In the mean time the value of finding a teacher has come up a couple of times.

So I'd like to share this 1995 book by Bill Hamilton.
Saints and Psychopaths

It does a fairly good job of explaining why there are probably more psychopaths than saints and how to spot the difference..

Hope it is useful to some.

With Love
Eelco

BlueSky · #2 15-01-2018, 05:12 PM

I'm sure it's a good book but honestly I find teachers everywhere. In nature, my dog, my kids, movies, etc.

sky · #3 15-01-2018, 05:40 PM

[quote=BlueSky]I'm sure it's a good book but honestly I find teachers everywhere. In nature, my dog, my kids, movies, etc.[/QUOTE

Yes I agree, you find them in unexpected places if you are open to listening to others without judgement

There are also silent teachers, nature, it speaks without words.

blossomingtree · #4 15-01-2018, 08:46 PM

Thanks catsquotl. I remember being very skeptical as well, and it took me a while before I found a teacher who I trusted fully, but what worked for me was:

1. Your own practice is the most important treasure - when you know for yourself, through your own practice and heart, there is no doubt that the practice (Dharma) is true
2. Listen to the teachings/teachers and take what is useful and apply it to see for oneself - the value of the internet is such that there are so many amazing teachings from amazing teachers available for everyone: Pema Chodren, Thich Nhat Hanh, Rinzai (Lin Chi), Ta-Hui, Chogyam Trungpa, Ajahn Sumedho, Ajahn Chah, Ajahn Fuang, Ajaan Dune Atulo, Bodhidharma. There are resources like the World Buddhist Directory and numerous sites to listen and learn and visit.
3. Someone once said "it takes one to know one" - so the best way to know for oneself who is authentic and who is not is to practice until the results are clear in oneself - then the Light will be evident in others who are similarly accomplished, and the intricacies and details will become obvious as to who is authentic or not.
4. A good teacher helps you grow, and encourages your natural abilities. I have heard it said it is like art. Or as a Zen teacher once said, if you have it, I will give it to you, if you don't I will take it away.

Thanks for offering this PDF, and its reflections, for the forum. I find that there is a fine line between all of this - be too skeptical/fearful/untrusting and you can never find a real teacher even if they are in front of you - be too trusting/faithful/wishful and you find a teacher that is perhaps misguided them-self (whether they misguide on purpose or not). Therefore, I find at the end of the day, my opinion is only if you yourself practice to a level of knowing for oneself, without doubt, then all these other fears and concerns will naturally dissipate as it's not possible to be a thief and a liar when it comes to the true Dharma. i.e. by knowing for oneself, by being a stream entrant and above, then one already knows its secrets, and authenticity is no longer a concern, as much as seeing the sun rise for oneself - there is just no fear or doubt left about who might be the imposter. That is the surest way to guard against such fears and doubts, in my opinion.

BT

#5 15-01-2018, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

by being a stream entrant and above, then one already knows its secrets, and authenticity is no longer a concern, as much as seeing the sun rise for oneself - there is just no fear or doubt left about who might be the imposter. That is the surest way to guard against such fears and doubts, in my opinion.

BT

Yes, but until we are there right.
At some point in my search I was pulled into what I later described as a cult. I fear it is the path of many to do so these days.
Of course I can go around and say that it thought me a lot and that I am grateful for the experience.(which it did and I am).

On the other hand I came very close of giving up my life as a husband and a father of the 3 little critters. My mind was filled with very dark and fearful expectations of the state of this world and where we were going.

Let's just say that I got out in time and together with my missus had 3 more critters and am still happily married.

The saints are out there. And teachings are abundand everywhere.. Thanks BlueSky And numberedSky. You're right. But as people do get ideas from other people I hope this pdf will prevent someone somewhere from taking the wrong ideas from the wrong people.. Nothing more...

With Love
Eelco

blossomingtree · #6 15-01-2018, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Yes, but until we are there right.
At some point in my search I was pulled into what I later described as a cult. I fear it is the path of many to do so these days.
Of course I can go around and say that it thought me a lot and that I am grateful for the experience.(which it did and I am).

On the other hand I came very close of giving up my life as a husband and a father of the 3 little critters. My mind was filled with very dark and fearful expectations of the state of this world and where we were going.

Of course, Eelco

And yes, that is unfortunate, and why I am of the bias to review and read genuine teachings/teachers (of which there are many still in existence). Because it can be hard to tell which is which, and what is what sometimes. Some cults are intentional, and some are not, but the common thread there is the teacher/guide is still bound by ego and suffering - such people cannot guide to the True Light no matter what they think or say.
Be well.

BT

BlueSky · #7 16-01-2018, 05:47 PM

[quote=sky123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I'm sure it's a good book but honestly I find teachers everywhere. In nature, my dog, my kids, movies, etc.[/QUOTE

Yes I agree, you find them in unexpected places if you are open to listening to others without judgement

There are also silent teachers, nature, it speaks without words.

So I was reflecting a bit on this and I thought I'd share it. What I have noticed with me is for whatever reasons, physical or just part of aging and being human, is that I have probably forgotten more than I have learned in my life.
For me, a learner by nature, I find that the things that I have learned, as I learned them, didn't matter as far as being in my memory.
What mattered is that they changed me as they happened.
These changes changed how I see, not what I know.
It's almost more of an unlearning thingy.
A guru can certainly help you unsee things but with me I know that as I learned or unlearned certain things, life made sure that I was ready.
So to me to seek a gurus help would be coming from a place of desire and would most likely be futile because I would not be ready.
Letting this process happen naturally seems to be how life works best.
This doesn't discount gurus, it just points to how that relationship could fail and how it could succeed. If it happens naturally then it will change you forever. If not it will only be a memory.
So even realization can fade but still it changes you forever.
Those are my thoughts and my experience for what it's worth. It was nice for me to reflect on this. Thanks for listening

blossomingtree · #8 16-01-2018, 06:59 PM

And thanks for sharing, BlueSky

BT

sky · #9 16-01-2018, 08:08 PM

[quote=BlueSky][quote=sky123]
So I was reflecting a bit on this and I thought I'd share it. What I have noticed with me is for whatever reasons, physical or just part of aging and being human, is that I have probably forgotten more than I have learned in my life.
For me, a learner by nature, I find that the things that I have learned, as I learned them, didn't matter as far as being in my memory.
What mattered is that they changed me as they happened.
These changes changed how I see, not what I know.
It's almost more of an unlearning thingy.
A guru can certainly help you unsee things but with me I know that as I learned or unlearned certain things, life made sure that I was ready.
So to me to seek a gurus help would be coming from a place of desire and would most likely be futile because I would not be ready.
Letting this process happen naturally seems to be how life works best.
This doesn't discount gurus, it just points to how that relationship could fail and how it could succeed. If it happens naturally then it will change you forever. If not it will only be a memory.
So even realization can fade but still it changes you forever.
Those are my thoughts and my experience for what it's worth. It was nice for me to reflect on this. Thanks for listening[/QUOTE

Memories can't be trusted anyway, our memories of events are not that accurate because we are just remembering our thoughts the last time we remembered the particular event.

naturesflow · #10 18-01-2018, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Personally I will wait until the teacher shows up when I am ready.
In the mean time the value of finding a teacher has come up a couple of times.

So I'd like to share this 1995 book by Bill Hamilton.
Saints and Psychopaths

It does a fairly good job of explaining why there are probably more psychopaths than saints and how to spot the difference..

Hope it is useful to some.

With Love
Eelco

I believe we find exactly what we need even if its not what we "think" we need.

Even the psychopaths are good teachers. But of course if you don't need to learn through them, they are best avoided to keep you safe.