He told me we girls tend to fall in love with guys we don't even know ;)

[Kiran]

UPDATE!!!!


Just had a wonderful chat with Marc. Now taking a break to have dinner, might go on talking later, else some other day.


I was not really planning on it, but the topic of meeting up naturally surged after a while and I asked him. He seems to be okay with it. Seems we're halfway there here's what we said (we first talked about how expensive everything is in Switzerland, even travelling and such. Then I asked if he drove a lot outside of Zürich, where he lives, to which he said no. Then we went on like this) :


(Me): To Vorarlberg you drive about two hours, from Zürich. At least that's what I heard
(Him): In car?
No, in train
Would be okay
With car a bit faster
If it's okay, you could come here some day
You'd be welcome
Thanks
But if, I'd probably come with my flatmate who has a car. Would that be ok too?
Sure
Depends also on how long you want to stay
Only for coffee or some beer?
Or longer?
Ufff, no idea
Otherwise I could also get you a room for a day or two and you could explore the area in peace
I mean, that way it'd at least be worth the travel
I'd say we plan that when it's time. But will be difficult for me in the next weeks
Doesn't have to be right now. Just an offer.
You did say you wanted to escape some day
Yeah, generally a good idea
but in the moment I don't know how I should manage with the time
ok no problem
well, maybe someday around Christmas
for example
yeah, I'd have semester break then
we'll see
would be nice if it worked out
we'll have to see
but basically it's a great idea

then maybe we also get to know each other personally. Would be nice
only if you want to, of course
yeah, now that we've already written so much, it's about getting time
and they were intimate talks too
yeah we've talked a lot
I hope that'll also work IRL
are you preoccupied about that?
maybe a bit
I met my best male friend on the internet and we got to know each other about a year later
and we've been best friends for 13 years now


So, seems good... or do you think I was too forward? Anyway, thanks for the help. New advice always welcome!

Originally Posted by Kiran

Nada, it seems you have experience with Asperger affected persons. About the "skeletons in his closet", well, it could might be he hasn't told me everything yet. I read your message rather like an "hey, at least you finally healed, go find someone better" than trying it with him. Not sure if you meant it that way.

Very good perception, Kiran.
Yes, I am currently divorcing a man with Asperger syndrome. Since he was diagnosed with this neurological disability early last year, I had been intensely researching about it, as well as attending a support group for wives of Aspergers, going through therapies, and joining online support groups.

Your guy sounds very much like a typical Asperger man, based on his expressions and self descriptions. You may want to look up this condition.
Although they are highly intelligent and seemingly innocent (due to lack of executive functions and normal social perceptions), it is extremely unsatisfying (emotionally and sexually) and stressful situation for the neuro-typical females in a long committed relationship.

Due to their abnormal frontal cortex, they often struggle with determining right from wrong and they have a problem with boundaries. This has caused many problems and conflicts in my marriage.
They can never be a provider and their wives become their caretakers. 80%+ of their marriages fail even when they are diagnosed and when both partners are aware of their conditions.

Most importantly, they lack empathy. I can detect his lack of empathy from what you wrote about him.
He called you chubby. Neuro typical normal men would never tell a woman that she is chubby because they 'empathetically' know that kind of words would hurt the woman.

Asperger can not be treated and it is NOT psychological or emotional condition. Although it has those side effects, it is a neurological disability with an abnormal frontal cortex of brain.

They can never deeply love and bond emotionally with another person. Even they love another person 100% of their capacity, it is like 30-50% of normal person's ability to love and to bond.

However, they can be a good friend and an occasional date in a detached and casual relationship. - that you do not have any other expectations, except as a playmate. With teenager like exuberants, they can be fun to just hang-out with.

I just want others to learn from my mistakes.
Although I do not think that my marriage to my ex was a mistake since I learned so much from him. We helped each other with our lessons.
So, it was meant to be and I have no-regrets. I still care for and love him.
I just can not be his wife anymore. But he will be in my life.

If being with your guy is your destiny and your lesson, so be it. Just go with the flow but with your eyes wide open.

[Kiran]

Ok Nada, now I understand you better. So sorry for you, hun.


Well, he never got diagnosed Asperger. He only has tendencies. Like when he was a child, he would always go back exactly the same way he came (he has trained off this). He has difficulty keeping eye contact when speaking to a person. Such things. Maybe you can read out more from what he says, as you know the symptoms better.


But I hear you when you tell me and I will be cautious. Promise.

BTW, it wasn't him who brought up the word "chubby" - I myself said I look so horribly fat on that pic.


We have continued to chat after my last talk and it was a very close and intimate conversation. I somehow feel close to him now, can't explain. It makes me feel good. And I really think he likes me too, it did shine through quite a lot today. Although if it's just 30-50% of a normal person, as you say... well...


Hope I won't experience the same thing as you. And that you will be well and happy

Thanks.
Yes I am much happier. My stress level due to my marriage has been reduced to zero, although I am still going through the divorce.
Divorce normally causes stress to others.
However, as those of us who are divorcing Asperger husbands admit, we are much happier alone than being committed to an Asperger man.
So, divorce is a much needed relief actually. I am SO~~ looking forward to my own life again.

As for your guy, there is not such thing as Asperger tendencies. A person is an Asperger with different spectrum levels. Your descriptions of him and his self description match the typical Asperger presentations. You really should google and read more about it.

Aspergers do not have filters when they communicate, so they make you feel very close and intimate since they will say anything to you without filtering their information.

I was attracted to this aspect of my ex as well.
That was the most endearing quality of my ex when we were dating.
Until I realized later on that he does that with just about anyone that he meets. This had caused social embarrassments and misconceptions.
It also had caused stress in our marriage since I had to monitor what he was saying to others about our personal and intimate information.

Communicating without filtering, without caution, and without understanding of consequences (typical of Aspergers) had caused serious problems even at his work and with his clients. - Not to mention the havocs within our marriage. However, they can not stop their behaviors.

BTW, it wasn't him who brought up the word "chubby" - I myself said I look so horribly fat on that pic.

Normal empathetic men would said "you look good to me" or "you look pretty" or 'you are not fat' or something in that line. They would not agree with you and said that you are 'chubby'.
I am just saying... this is a typical communication pattern of Aspergers.

But you seem to know what you are getting into. You are already aware of his differences. That is healthy.
Since you feel the connection, you should meet him in person first before you spend anymore time and energy on him.
It is probably not a good idea to attaching yourself to him any further until you get to know him well in person.

Nonetheless, he is helping you so that is good. People come into our lives for a reason.
Let the destiny meets the reality.

[twinkle]

Originally Posted by Nada

Aspergers do not have filters when they communicate, so they make you feel very close and intimate since they will say anything to you without filtering their information.

Normal empathetic men would said "you look good to me" or "you look pretty" or 'you are not fat' or something in that line. They would not agree with you and said that you are 'chubby'.
I am just saying... this is a typical communication pattern of Aspergers.

Maybe this one guy I knew in the past had Aspergers. He told me he thought he might have Autism. Since he communicated freely about everything with me, I told him he could not have Autism. However, he would put down your looks if he was thinking something negative at the time. If I got offended by something he said, he would tell me that I was sensitive. He also came across as a racist because he did not seem to have filters. One time I was with him when a potential employer called him for a reference. I could not believe how unprofessional he talked on the phone. He actually told the employer I needed to get the job so I could get away from my abusive parents and went on some about my parents. The thing is he was unaware he was saying all the wrong things. He could not understand why I was upset after that phone call. I never put him down on application as a reference again. Be careful what you say to someone with Aspergers!

Although it seemed like this guy liked to communicate since he freely talked about everything, he really hated communication. He said that he preferred action, but not talk. He said he never wanted to get married because he would have to communicate on a regular basis.

[Kiran]

Hmmmm, seems like this is turning into a discussion about the Asperger Syndrome, wasn't my original intent but ok ;)

Just to tell you, last night I've signed up on two forums about Asperger, one is for Asperger afflicted persons themselves (so I might understand them better), and the other, for partners of Aspies. Although that last one seems rather a meeting place for desperate souls - mostly women - complaining about their Asperger partners and looking for comfort. Seems they miss their hugs.

But it's not only sad stories. It looks like when both put in effort to the cause, it can work out very well (nothing bad to you, Nada. If you're happier without him, leave).


I've also had a talk with my psychiatric health advisor this morning. For those of you not informed, I also have "my problems" - slight social phobia (I also have problems looking people in the eye when talking, for instance) and bipolar illness, but I'm handling it quite well nowadays, I'm balanced and feel good about my life.

He told me some people in the Pro Mente house where I've lived before also have Asperger's - without saying names, but he let me guess - and I never really suspected, just thought they were a little "odd". Also that "we all have our issues", which I think is true. Whoever is really NORMAL in this insane world? That people are drawn together because they feel something in the other responding and that this way, you can't possibly ever be with "the wrong person", you always get exactly what you deserve and need at that moment. What you're calling out to. If you don't value yourself, for instance, you'll always end up with scumbags. But he also told me that "all people crave love" and want to be treated in a good way. That if I ever have doubts about how to handle him, I just do what I would want him to do for me.


What stuck with me most is this:

"Maybe some people will tell you that with an Asperger person, you can never live love to it's full content. Yet if they love, they love fully and to all of their capacity. And even if their capacity to love and bond might be lower than that of a neuro-typical person, isn't it satisfying enough to know that the person you love with all of your heart is loving you back with all of theirs?"

[twinkle]

Originally Posted by Kiran

But he also told me that "all people crave love" and want to be treated in a good way. That if I ever have doubts about how to handle him, I just do what I would want him to do for me.

I believe that most people crave love and desire to be treated well. But, I do not know if I agree with the doctor stating to just treat him how you would want him to treat you. If my friend was an Aspie, I never put down his looks. But, he often put down my looks. And he is the only friend of mine who did. I was an active listener, but he was not a very good listener since he would get things mixed up. Although I had lots of good times with him, it does not outweigh the benefits of a true friend, which is empathy and understanding. Hopefully, your friend does not have all the signs of Aspergers since some are hard to deal with.

Originally Posted by Nada

Normal empathetic men would said "you look good to me" or "you look pretty" or 'you are not fat' or something in that line. They would not agree with you and said that you are 'chubby'.
I am just saying... this is a typical communication pattern of Aspergers.

Well, well, well...the old "Honey does this dress make me look fat" game is still alive and kicking. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't say this means anything but him not playing up to that stupid concept. Social constructions here in the US (isn't the guy from somewhere else?) is unlike the social landscape anywhere else...and not so-much in the good way. A lot of it is nonsense, and I don't play into it either. Hardly means there is a neurological disorder going on. I dated a a foreign exchange student from Sweden in my late teens, and the one thing about her that sticks out in my mind is how bluntly matter-of-fact and open she was with just about everything we talked about. The topic of sex could've very well been a conversation about watching cars drive on the freeway because there was no social stigma attached to it like here in the States. To her it just was what it was. I'm not saying that this guy definitely does NOT have Asperger's, but I am saying that whatever the perceived lack of social "cues" he has may just be a cultural difference, if he's from another country. At least in my personal experiences with people from other places, on their end, there is a refreshing straight-forwardness, and a lot less tippy-toey fluff and hoop-jumping with whatever they're trying to say...

Originally Posted by Kiran

Just to tell you, last night I've signed up on two forums about Asperger, one is for Asperger afflicted persons themselves (so I might understand them better), and the other, for partners of Aspies. Although that last one seems rather a meeting place for desperate souls - mostly women - complaining about their Asperger partners and looking for comfort. Seems they miss their hugs.

But it's not only sad stories. It looks like when both put in effort to the cause, it can work out very well (nothing bad to you, Nada. If you're happier without him, leave).

Great that you are researching more about it.
In my younger days, I also thought that everyone wants to work together in a relationship with someone that he/she loves.

That is not the case at all. Some people are not capable of resolve conflicts due to various factors. - Some neurological, some psychological, and some emotional.

Over the years and with my own experiences, I learned that a committed life partnership, like a marriage, requires good foundations of Trust, Good Communication, EMPATHY, healthy neurological stability, sexual compatibility, and emotional compatibility, along with similar value system.

Love by itself does not sustain a relationship.
Love comes and goes within a long relationship.
When any of the above foundations are missing or incompatible, a relationship fails.
It does not matter how much one loves one's partner. Love can not save it.

It is something that one has to experience it to understand. It is a part of life lessons.

You should meet the man and see what happens, if he wants to pursue a real relationship in person.
Keep us posted.

Good luck with it.

Originally Posted by Geezzy.G

Well, well, well...the old "Honey does this dress make me look fat" game is still alive and kicking. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't say this means anything but him not playing up to that stupid concept. Social constructions here in the US (isn't the guy from somewhere else?) is unlike the social landscape anywhere else...and not so-much in the good way. A lot of it is nonsense, and I don't play into it either. Hardly means there is a neurological disorder going on. I dated a a foreign exchange student from Sweden in my late teens, and the one thing about her that sticks out in my mind is how bluntly matter-of-fact and open she was with just about everything we talked about. The topic of sex could've very well been a conversation about watching cars drive on the freeway because there was no social stigma attached to it like here in the States. To her it just was what it was. I'm not saying that this guy definitely does NOT have Asperger's, but I am saying that whatever the perceived lack of social "cues" he has may just be a cultural difference, if he's from another country. At least in my personal experiences with people from other places, on their end, there is a refreshing straight-forwardness, and a lot less tippy-toey fluff and hoop-jumping with whatever they're trying to say...

I agree.
But the subject actually had other conditions that are typical Asperger presentations.

Being honest and being unempathetic are two very different thing.

If your 'homely' child comes to you and asks you if she/he is ugly, you would 'empathetically' reassure the child that she/he is beautiful in your eyes. You would never tell the child that she/he is homely, even that may be the truth and an honest answer.
An Asperger parent would tell the child that she/he is homely but still a good kid. I have witnessed children who were raised by Asperger parents and the damage to the children's self esteem is detrimental.

A grown woman (wife) can divorce and walk away from a bad marriage. Children can not.
Unless you actually experienced living with an Asperger person, it is not something that is easily comprehensive
Trust me, I would never understood it neither until I lived through it myself.