Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 14-10-2018, 04:37 AM
Rah nam Rah nam is online now
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,041
  Rah nam's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
You made an untrue statement there ... Eating only plants will sicken and kill you with B12 deficiency. It is called pernicious anemia.

Probably you know that, but you got carried away by your emotions. Somebody might read what you wrote, and not know that. Be more careful!




Not entirely correct either.
I have not eaten any animal products for the last 20 years or so, have not been to a doctor for more than 30 year. According to my HS my b12 level is adequate, not high and not low. My energy level it fine, clime around in the hills play tennis, and do my gardening. I would not take any supplements.

According to my HS the yeast I use has the most b12, mushrooms to a smaller degree and vegetable from my garden which I rarely wash to a very small degree. If I was concerned about it, I would use bee pollen, but then I don't call myself vegan either, most vegan eat many things I would not touch.
Some raw honey would contain very small amounts of b12.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 14-10-2018, 05:16 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
Guide
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 707
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah nam
Not entirely correct either.
I have not eaten any animal products for the last 20 years or so, have not been to a doctor for more than 30 year. According to my HS my b12 level is adequate, not high and not low. My energy level it fine, clime around in the hills play tennis, and do my gardening. I would not take any supplements.

According to my HS the yeast I use has the most b12, mushrooms to a smaller degree and vegetable from my garden which I rarely wash to a very small degree. If I was concerned about it, I would use bee pollen, but then I don't call myself vegan either, most vegan eat many things I would not touch.
Some raw honey would contain very small amounts of b12.

Glad it works well for you. As you can see from my link (previous post) B12 is recommended by serious vegan associations based on their statistical data, and research..

B12 deficiency is a very serious condition (somebody close has pernicious anemia which is fatal without biweekly high dose B12 injections).
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 14-10-2018, 08:32 AM
Altair Altair is offline
Knower
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 220
  Altair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight


Regarding there not being enough vegetation to feed 7 million people.... The animals themselves have to be fed on grains,corn etc grown of the earth.
If meat can be mass produced then that meat in its life needs feeding.
Surely that food that is fed to them could be used to to feed people, corn and grain could go a long way as animals themselves would not be in the numbers they are now in any way.. as they would not be needed to be mass produced and artificially bred. Nature would naturally select.
Yes and no...

The grains fed to the animals are not always suitable for human consumption, at least it's likely most people wouldn't like it, so what would be necessary is the growing of different crops, which is very much possible as we have changed crops and soil throughout history. Never believe farmers who say they can't grow anything else! They have an agenda..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight
I still stand by what I have said all along.. love and compassion for all living things is the basis of spirituality.
I wish you well
Yes exactly.. it's a no brainer. Humans are also striving to be more than mere animals so we should welcome civilization and make it as sustainable as possible.. and not just imitate wild animals and imagine billions of people could live like hunters. We can't and a lot of land has become an ecological desert. I come across people online and offline that make nothing but naturalistic fallacies.. ''It's nature therefore it's okay''.. They are basically saying that to be a human is to be nothing but an animal and never strive to nurture our unique human nature and its capacity to change.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 15-10-2018, 10:14 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,829
  Lucky 1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight
Regarding there not being enough vegetation to feed 7 million people.... The animals themselves have to be fed on grains,corn etc grown of the earth.
If meat can be mass produced then that meat in its life needs feeding.
Surely that food that is fed to them could be used to to feed people, corn and grain could go a long way as animals themselves would not be in the numbers they are now in any way.. as they would not be needed to be mass produced and artificially bred. Nature would naturally select.

Also, if animals can be mass produced for food this can be easily done with crop surely in most areas of the world. Orchards etc.

The fact is humans can live off a variety of plants and vegetation. Some of the things we are not even familiar with, if society was different it would be more known. Even remote places have something, the earth is plentiful and full of nutrients and goodness in the strangest places.

I call it human lack of intelligence on the subject on a mass scale (or just the love of the taste of meat) that takes the enquiring mind away from studying nutrition and how to find it.

People will sooner head to a burger bar than read a book on the nutrients of a tree or plant.

It is society to blame....they have distorted peoples natural way of thinking from the beginning of time and replaced it with nonsense and multi million pound organisations of corruption, greed and cruelty regarding our food.

It is the mindset of the person that is in question , the motive and the reason.

Hunting for fun I do not agree with..this is cruel....factory farming is cruel.

As for farmers trying to scratch a living?
I dont think I have ever seen a farmer who truly cares for their 'animals' at all...they care for the money that their flesh will bring...
....... but this is when the spirit of a person(the farmer) comes through,,, and the measure of the man (or woman ) I feel...

How does one claim to care on a farm for their livestock and then pack them off for slaughter without a second thought....
where is the compassion for the poor beast that looks into your eyes as you load it onto the slaughter truck when there is a tree full of apples in the next field. Some even name their animals...talk to them...and as cold as you like send "Old Berty"to be killed without the blink of an eye...some even eat them themselves.....to me this is beyond comprehension.

You may say I look at it too simplistically but if this thinking was widespread there would be less health problems, the right amount of animals in the world in their natural native countries and less violence and negative vibrations due to animal murder on mass scale and the consumption of slaughtered flesh.

I still stand by what I have said all along.. love and compassion for all living things is the basis of spirituality.
I wish you well


Starlight....for starters......grazing type animals like cattle are not fed grain all there lives....the fact is that grains.....especially corn will make cows sick after a while....

Cows spend pretty much all there lives out to pasture eating grass ......then before being sold....they are fed grain for a short period of time to fatten them up because cows that eat grass are very lean....

And the type of grain they are fed is generally not what people eat!

I personally don't eat much in the way of grains...esp corn because it is not natural to the human diet and causes any number of health issues.

And you are right....as an omnivore...humans can survive on just about anything edible.....that doesn't mean that everything you can eat is good for you in the long term.

My experience is that people just wont stick with eating a diet they don't like.....no matter how good or bad it is for you.

People tend to eat what they like to eat.... period....and changing that is beyond difficult......just human nature.....

If you're happy on a vegan diet and you do well on it....good for you!!!

But my experience is that the bulk of the population is unsuited to eating that way and if they try it...they wont stick with it.

I personally doubt that more than 20% of the human population can thrive on a vegan diet.

I've known at least 20 people over the years that wanted to go vegan for one reason or another.....and after feeling like they were starving to death for a few months...quit.

I know one person out of that 20 or so that still eats that way.

And for this reason I don't see veganism as anything more than another fad diet that you only find in developed western countries and don't expect that it will ever become mainstream.
__________________
Please don't tell my mom I'm in the oil industry. ...she still thinks I'm a piano player in a w****house!

I'm living on "tropical standard time"!!!

Yes I Am a Pirate! 200 years too late....the cannons don't thunder...there's nothing to plunder...I'm an over 40 victim of fate!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 16-10-2018, 08:25 AM
Baile Baile is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,538
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPearl
If junk food is bad for spirit
It's exactly the opposite in fact. Your diet controls nothing; rather, your spiritual inclination and karma in this particular lifetime finds expression in your thinking, outlook and life-choices, including your diet. For example, I just finished watching the Packers-49ers highlights on Youtube... There is a spiritual-inclination reason why most American football players eat steak, and why most football fans do the same and why they barbeque outside the stadium pre-game. To be a successful athlete in a violent game like that, you need to be an aggressive, dominating, "carnivore" of a player.

Junk food is not bad for spirit, it is bad for your weight and health. Being obese and unhealthy is bad for you in every way. It affects your self-esteem and your ability to be alive and present in life, which in turn affects your inner spiritual well-being. Eat whatever feels right and do that which makes you feel good about yourself... whatever it is that affects your spiritual well-being in a positive way. That said, you are still free to choose your karma. We are souls of free will. If your karma is to make yourself ill by eating chemicals and processed food, then that's your chosen path.

Last edited by Baile : 16-10-2018 at 09:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 16-10-2018, 10:08 AM
Baile Baile is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,538
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
there is no way in hell to feed 7 billion human beings on this planet without large scale raising of animals
That's like claiming Pete Best was one of the Beatles... from one very narrow and fact-deficient POV, there is indeed some truth in there. The reality though is the meat and dairy industry could disappear, and human beings could easily turn to plant-only agriculture and successfully feed the population. Now, could we do this today? No, it would take years to make that shift. Plus the meat and dairy industry, together with the government, have too much invested in the current set-up, both from a profit and economy perspective. Plant-only agriculture will indeed fail as things currently stand, due to corporate and political self-interests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
veganism... another fad diet
You and I think alike, just opposite. I say we'll all be vegans in 100 years due to the evolution of consciousness.

Last edited by Baile : 16-10-2018 at 12:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 16-10-2018, 07:38 PM
Starlight Starlight is offline
Knower
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 135
  Starlight's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
That's like claiming Pete Best was one of the Beatles... from one very narrow and fact-deficient POV, there is indeed some truth in there. The reality though is the meat and dairy industry could disappear, and human beings could easily turn to plant-only agriculture and successfully feed the population. Now, could we do this today? No, it would take years to make that shift. Plus the meat and dairy industry, together with the government, have too much invested in the current set-up, both from a profit and economy perspective. Plant-only agriculture will indeed fail as things currently stand, due to corporate and political self-interests.You and I think alike, just opposite. I say we'll all be vegans in 100 years due to the evolution of consciousness.

This is as I feel on this...People are aware of vibrations more and more through life/lives and therefore will realise that consuming suffering is lowering the purity of the spirit. I know some people dont see this on their life path but its going to manifest eventually.
__________________
https://www.VirtueScience.com
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 19-10-2018, 11:55 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 304
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Starlight....for starters......grazing type animals like cattle are not fed grain all there lives....the fact is that grains.....especially corn will make cows sick after a while....

Cows spend pretty much all there lives out to pasture eating grass ......then before being sold....they are fed grain for a short period of time to fatten them up because cows that eat grass are very lean....

And the type of grain they are fed is generally not what people eat!

I personally don't eat much in the way of grains...esp corn because it is not natural to the human diet and causes any number of health issues.

And you are right....as an omnivore...humans can survive on just about anything edible.....that doesn't mean that everything you can eat is good for you in the long term.

My experience is that people just wont stick with eating a diet they don't like.....no matter how good or bad it is for you.

People tend to eat what they like to eat.... period....and changing that is beyond difficult......just human nature.....

If you're happy on a vegan diet and you do well on it....good for you!!!

But my experience is that the bulk of the population is unsuited to eating that way and if they try it...they wont stick with it.

I personally doubt that more than 20% of the human population can thrive on a vegan diet.

I've known at least 20 people over the years that wanted to go vegan for one reason or another.....and after feeling like they were starving to death for a few months...quit.

I know one person out of that 20 or so that still eats that way.

And for this reason I don't see veganism as anything more than another fad diet that you only find in developed western countries and don't expect that it will ever become mainstream.



Hi Lucky,

I read your comment with interest. And you’re right, ‘we eat what we like to eat. But you’re wrong on a few points in my opinion.

Dairy cows rarely spend their lives on grass, they’re more often in filthy loafing barns, waiting for their next milking and having their contribution weighed in order to discover if they’ll be on the next meat truck. And those cows all lost their mothers at birth, their lives are as short and like their mothers, they’ll die in terror. Beef cattle don’t lose their calves at birth, but their deaths are no less terrifying and painful.

The grain that is fed to them could be fed to starving people and you’d be able to feed more people, than those cows would. Meat is completely inefficient as a protein source. Soy will give you 356 lbs of edible protein from an acre while a cow would only give you 20 lbs and other meats, about 45 lbs per acre. Even legumes will grow 192 lbs. per acre.

I’d also dispute that we are omnivores. While we might keep starvation at bay from eating meat, it isn’t good for our health. If it was, then dropping it from your diet wouldn’t reverse diabetes, heart disease, some types of cancer, MS, arthritis and other diseases. An omnivore’s body wouldn’t be affected by meat consumption like that.

The ‘fad’ of veganism is growing continuously. And the marketplace is recognizing that as are the major food producers. Tyson’s meat has invested in the new Beyond Meat Burger, which is the most amazing plant based burger you ever tasted. Some meat eaters even have preferred them over the real because the taste and texture is amazingly close and they're less greasy tasting. And companies and supermarkets all over Canada and the UK are developing their own alternative ‘meats’ and other products. And here there are a dozen vegan ice creams on the market these days that are comparable to the milk versions.

As well, vegan restaurants with amazing food are popping up in cities across the developed world. Australia has a huge vegan community, Israel has a very large vegan community and even in China and other Asian cities, veganism has begun to appear.

Texas Midland Memorial Hospital actively promotes a vegan diet to their patients and are offering cooking and food classes to staff and patients and the public. There are two other hospitals in the USA that also promote a vegan diet OVER a meat inclusive one. And the Oakland, California school district have pulled a number of meat choices off their school's menu's, replaced them with vegan ones and are both saving money and saving the environment.

And none of that even begins to recongize the environmental factors. That would be another thread. But the point is, veganism is not a passing fad, people are blessed with repaired and improved health when they dump the meat and dairy, and the environment needs it.

And one more thing this discussion isn’t really looking at is the fact that your meat diet means tortured, abused and terrified animals are born into lives of misery and they die in pain and terror. How is that spiritually okay?

The last time I ate meat was 25 years ago. One of my daughter's has been vegan for 10 years, my husband for 10 years and my best friend became vegan about a year ago. And I have more 'brothers and sisters' in the lifestyle, every year.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 20-10-2018, 12:12 AM
Debrah Debrah is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 304
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
It's exactly the opposite in fact. Your diet controls nothing; rather, your spiritual inclination and karma in this particular lifetime finds expression in your thinking, outlook and life-choices, including your diet. For example, I just finished watching the Packers-49ers highlights on Youtube... There is a spiritual-inclination reason why most American football players eat steak, and why most football fans do the same and why they barbeque outside the stadium pre-game. To be a successful athlete in a violent game like that, you need to be an aggressive, dominating, "carnivore" of a player.

Junk food is not bad for spirit, it is bad for your weight and health. Being obese and unhealthy is bad for you in every way. It affects your self-esteem and your ability to be alive and present in life, which in turn affects your inner spiritual well-being. Eat whatever feels right and do that which makes you feel good about yourself... whatever it is that affects your spiritual well-being in a positive way. That said, you are still free to choose your karma. We are souls of free will. If your karma is to make yourself ill by eating chemicals and processed food, then that's your chosen path.

I like what you said here. Less of the 'woo-woo' factor and more plain common sense. Great comment Baile.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 20-10-2018, 05:54 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,152
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
That's like claiming Pete Best was one of the Beatles... from one very narrow and fact-deficient POV, there is indeed some truth in there. The reality though is the meat and dairy industry could disappear, and human beings could easily turn to plant-only agriculture and successfully feed the population. Now, could we do this today? No, it would take years to make that shift. Plus the meat and dairy industry, together with the government, have too much invested in the current set-up, both from a profit and economy perspective. Plant-only agriculture will indeed fail as things currently stand, due to corporate and political self-interests.You and I think alike, just opposite. I say we'll all be vegans in 100 years due to the evolution of consciousness.




The vegan diet is dependent on systems of agriculture, and although that is one way of life, not all cultures have largescale agricultural practice, usually because their natural environment doesn't enable it, and/or large tamable animals of toil such as oxen and horses don't live in such environments. Then to impose a vegan diet upon such cultural groups, who manage land and resources in completely different ways, is also cultural domination, which almost always results in adverse health outcomes for those of the dominated culture. This is not to say the ethics of veganism are not sound - it's just to say some ethical considerations are being overlooked.
__________________
.
Check out my signature.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums