What does spiritual development actually mean?

Originally Posted by janielee

2 was not inferred

3 I said so only on this forum - which is a free for all forum, and thereby allows any and all theories to be postulated for the most part as long as peeps get along. The reference to spiritual masters/adepts is to reference the synchronization of those guys.

As I've said many times before, I think I understand why you see and say what you do. It works. It's what some need. We all have enough. If you're happy, I'm happy too.

Be safe also.

JL

I'm happy too,. and this is another instance among many when definitions, interpretations, perspectives... all become barriers. Similarly with beliefs and whether or not Jung has a place in Spirituality or not. But then there is always something behind the mask, behind the 'happy'.

Originally Posted by janielee

How interesting to bring the quote of the eminent psychologist Carl Jung to the table, and in seeing that, helps me see how you formed your world views - and that of many others.

I am grateful to know there is much more to life and a person than that which psychologists may see, just as I do believe there is more to this existence than a scientist may purport.

Namaste,

JL

Apparently there are sixteen constants in science, and I'm not going to blind you with it but give you an example. One of those constants is gravity, if it had been just a tiny tad less your molecules wouldn't have coalesced and you wouldn't exist as a material form. If it had been a tiny tad more all matter would have been so superheavy that it wouldn't have been able to support Life as we know it - and if somehow Life had comes from superheavy matter it would be a very different reality and universe. The material Universe supports the Spiritual Universe.

Albert Einstein, Max Planck (the father of quantum physics), Nicolai Teska and a few more of the scinece minds today were/are religious/Spiritual. Max Planck makes the case for a 'scientific God' although he doesn't use the word.

A Spiritual-centric existence is the doctrine of the sun moving around the earth. The Yin-Yang symbol is a stepping stone to understanding that nothing is completely 'this' or completely 'that'. The pre-Taoist alchemists called it "Triplex Unity" where there is 'this', there is 'that' and in the overlap there is 'both'. Similarly with the Vesica Pisces of Sacred Geometry, because that is the basis of the Buddhist Egg of Life and Tree of Life. It's in the 'area' of 'both' where 'this' and 'that' overlap that all the good stuff happens. Like how Jung and the Spiritual P.O.V come together. Jung and the Hindu mystics didn't talk the same language and they were in very different fields, but this didn't stop them coming to an understanding.

If we use time and language as ways to divide and separate and therefore not come to a much greater understanding?

[Emm]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

With respect Emm, this is where it all begins. If you're really looking for understanding then -

https://frithluton.com/articles/ego/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw9zSMsKcwk

To hot the nail on the head, the ego gives you a sense of I am, essentially it's the point of reference for your experiential existence. According to Jung, what most people call the ego isn't the ego itself but the 'contents' of the ego, and that's the key understanding. Once you lose that central reference point you completely lose all sense of self and from a mental health perspective, you become dysfunctional in relation to how disconnected from your ego you are. If you're having trouble relating to yourself as a person then it's fairly mild, but at the other end of the scale you can end up on a psyche ward, Believe me it's not pretty, and I'm talking from experience not theory.

"I am" is your ego, "I am Spiritual" is the 'contents' of your ego or what's inside it. Similarly, "I am" is your ego and "I am better than you" is the 'contents'. "I am" is your ego, "more Spiritual, have more Spiritual knowledge".... you get the idea. If you don't have en ego, clinically, then you aren't functional enough to find your way onto your keyboard. If I called you an ignorant clown and your reaction is to want to beat me with a baseball bat, you have an ego.

If you have no ego you can't be hurt, offended, betrayed......

Where things start to go sideways is when you label yourself as Spiritual. In short, when you define what is Spiritual, by extension you define what is not Spiritual. The irony is that only Isness is inherent in anything, and everything else is of the egoic mind. When you call yourself a 'Spiritual person', what you're actually doing is programming your paradigm and buying into your own narrative. This is Spiritual and this isn't. It's OK to study Tolle but not Jung because even though your Spiritual framework is mostly psychological, he's not a Spiritual master.

This is where you're falling down, with respect Emm. What is Spiritual intelligence? To me intelligence is of the egoic mind and prefixing it with 'Spiritual' is trying to 'elevate' intelligence or the egoic mind to a state of divinity. And no, words are not us but if that is the case then why are you identifying with the word 'Spiritual'? Spiritual 'you', Spiritual seeker, Spiritual intelligence... No criticism intended by the way. Words are needed for understanding and the correct word brings the correct understanding, and if you don't like being corrected then your ego is at work. The correct word for your "Spiritual intelligence" I would think is Gnosis, which means very simply "knowing without knowing how you know." Don't believe me, go look it up. It's from the same level of consciousness as intuition and is what Tolle would call 'space consciousness'. Anything to do with brain-mind and the electrical and chemical processes - knowledge, thinking, reasoning.

From a purely Spiritual perspective 'ego' is the wrong word, because what you ascribe as being of the ego has been 'filtered' via your definitions of the word, whatever they may be. The Hindus called it 'Maya' or 'false or conditioned self', while Samadhi is the dissolution of that false self. It;s when you understand it from that perspective and not through the lens of your won definitions that it all makes sense.

Words are expressions or extensions of us and the words we use have power over us. They programme your paradigm and that is subconscious, and your subconscious is 95% of your consciousness while your conscious is only 5%. The moral of the tale is to make sure of what you're buying into, because that will then put you on that particular track. Everything that's not compatible with that track is then subconsciously dismissed.

I appreciate the fact that you think I might need help with understanding Greenslade but I assure you its not necessary. Your video showed nothing new to me except what the terms Samadhi and Maya refers to lol. It seems we need a glossary of terms from all sources...could be a long read as it can't be agreed upon who is right or wrong.

As for my wording of Spiritual intelligence....as I see it spiritual is in the context of being non-physical and the intelligence part as a knowing or knowledge that wasn't known before...yes I could have said gnosis or intuition but I chose this phrase because it felt more valid for what I was trying to convey. It becomes easier to tune into this intelligence when we know how and where to look...and its not in books...you have to feel your way there so intellect gets you no where.

I can see why Pride can get in the way of enlightenment, we hang on to what we feel is right and in so doing the fog remains. Resisting, clinging onto belief systems whether they be religious or scientific...they have the same result, they lock you out of the truth. You may know it intellectually but its not truth itself.

Originally Posted by Emm

I appreciate the fact that you think I might need help with understanding Greenslade but I assure you its not necessary. Your video showed nothing new to me except what the terms Samadhi and Maya refers to lol. It seems we need a glossary of terms from all sources...could be a long read as it can't be agreed upon who is right or wrong.

As for my wording of Spiritual intelligence....as I see it spiritual is in the context of being non-physical and the intelligence part as a knowing or knowledge that wasn't known before...yes I could have said gnosis or intuition but I chose this phrase because it felt more valid for what I was trying to convey. It becomes easier to tune into this intelligence when we know how and where to look...and its not in books...you have to feel your way there so intellect gets you no where.

I can see why Pride can get in the way of enlightenment, we hang on to what we feel is right and in so doing the fog remains. Resisting, clinging onto belief systems whether they be religious or scientific...they have the same result, they lock you out of the truth. You may know it intellectually but its not truth itself.

I'm a trainer/assessor by trade and it's 'in the blood' I'm afraid, sometimes it pops out all on it's own. Taking the time to 'explain ourselves to those who will listen' has its merits.

I find it strange that even when the understandings remain across time and cultures, people are still so hung-up on the expression rather than the meaning they convey and accept or reject accordingly. I'm not referring to you personally by the way, it was just an observation since we're talking words and glossaries. Perhaps we still haven't come past the effects of the collapse of the Tower of Babel and we're still babbling on.

If it feels more valid for you then I can run with that and understand it from that perspective. Many years ago someone once said to me "Change the word, change the paradigm." At the time I needed something 'stronger' to reflect what I was trying to express and intelligence didn't sit right somehow. What I needed was something that didn't sound as though it came from the brain/mind process. Thinking back though, many years ago I had the same kind of thoughts (pre-Spiritual days) and for some reason I'm being reminded of that. I do understand your using it as a way of understanding though. And yes, it can set your consciousness sown some interesting Paths.

Interesting that you use the phrase "lock you out of the truth," ain't that the truth? It's actually a cognitive process but I'm guessing you didn't know that but were connecting to it anyway. No I'm not going into a preamble about it but thought I'd mention it, sometimes it's not easy when you have a head-full of stuff but sometimes a touch of confirmation helps. We're all human after all.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

The Universe is being extremely kind to me today...
https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/Self_Help/Spiritual

Whoa.
Thank you.

[enaid]

Originally Posted by Siemens

Most of you consider yourselves as being spiritual or spiritual evolving. But what does spiritual development actually mean? Is there a difference between spiritual development and other kinds of development a human can go through (like learning how to drive a car, how to use a credit card, or things you learn at school)? Or entails literally each kind of development a person undergoes - no matter how profane or earthly it is - inevitable a form of spiritual growth? Is spiritual development the same thing than character development?

And what is the goal of spiritual development? What is it good for? For what purpose should we develop?

I think spiritual growth is the same as learning how to do material things like drive a car, except it takes much, much longer and, unlike driving a car, there is no guidebook.

For me spiritual growth has been a growth away from organized religion and towards a nebulous ’new’ self to replace the old one which was riddled with fears and anxieties. This new self is more and more dependent on the Father, potentially for every answer and solution. My job is to take every fear and indecision to him and wait for his answer rather than racking my own brains.

He owns me and I belong to him - every molecule of my body and every minute of my day; he is always there and available to me. In order to soothe any fearful state I may be in, I consider myself to be held in his arms.

I am not of course perfect at this but the above are my goals. For me, it’s crucial to remember to go to him with things.