Being in "The Now"

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Of course it’s always now. When a speaker refers to 'being in the now’ they are merely making the distinction between the sense of being present with experience as it happens and being lost in thought (rumination about the past/future anticipations.) They are not (usually) making a metaphysical/ontological claim.

We can be presently aware of the present moment or presently oblivious to the present moment.

It's the triple meaning of 'present' where 'present' in its locale means 'here', and in its tense, means now, and it also means 'gift'. But when we speak of 'present' in a spiritual sense, we basically mean 'existent'. The 'gift', as it were, is being consciously existent. 'When' and 'where' that is possible is not a time and place per-se - but more like an acknowledgment.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Duality or a conceptual existence is not the issue. Its identification with the exterior reflection, confirming a solid center within, that one takes as ownwership. You are putting the cart before the horse (which is a very common thing to do in spirituality). Coceptual reality is not required an owner of experience. Spacial dissernment can be made without minds unconscious perpetual interpretation and personal measuring. Fundamental awareness is all which is needed. However, the owner will fight to keep that idea alive... or simply ignore it. The dual mind environment you speak of is fully anchored by the illussion of you, as someone separate intelectualizing the one, the infinite, source or whatever useless title its given. It is the act of separation attempting to understand non separation or oneness from the same conditioned playing field of separation. Thats not it. You are duality at its core, the very foundation of it, so all you can see and further conclude is its extremities and absolutes disguised as awakened or even enlightened. Identification begins to happen as soon as you uttered or sensed the evolving idea of me. Its all play. There is nothing good or bad about it, except if within the dream state of conditioning/identity.

Whatever you say is confirming your own conceptual identity within a dual environment that is referred to as mind .

You assume what you are of the dual mind believes in separation and entertains an illusory identification ..

These are just more concoctions / assumptions / beliefs made based upon an identity of what is not illusory or what is not a solid center within as you put it .

I am just illustrating the nature of the dual mind .. one cannot stand here and say they are entertaining a non dual awareness when that actual pointer is made within duality in reflection of what they are .

You say Duality or a conceptual existence is not the issue .. and yet without it you cannot conclude what you have ..

What you say is not the issue is the actual foundation of our experience ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there GL/Daz.
Individuation does not equal separation. We are individuated (thank God ) but we are never separated.

Yes I agree with this .

Just because as individuals we entertain our own point of perception doesn't mean that all individuals see others as separate from what they are ..

A dual environment doesn't equal a perception of separation ..

Duality can encompass a sense of oneness .


x daz x

[no1wakesup]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Whatever you say is confirming your own conceptual identity within a dual environment that is referred to as mind .

You assume what you are of the dual mind believes in separation and entertains an illusory identification ..

These are just more concoctions / assumptions / beliefs made based upon an identity of what is not illusory or what is not a solid center within as you put it .

I am just illustrating the nature of the dual mind .. one cannot stand here and say they are entertaining a non dual awareness when that actual pointer is made within duality in reflection of what they are .

You say Duality or a conceptual existence is not the issue .. and yet without it you cannot conclude what you have ..

What you say is not the issue is the actual foundation of our experience ..


x daz x

That which percieves in you is the issue. Its simply a mask now pretending its on a spiritual path or journey.. and writting these words which are utterly meaningless. All if it, more story to relate and cling too.

No assumptions or beliefs anywhere. Your experience is possible and only filters through an experiencer. You as experiencer are the root of separation and do not exist without the experience. You do not take, who you are still obliviously identified with, into that which has no other.

The foundation of your identity is made up of subject and object. That's how you became the center of experience... and your experience the landscape of linear time and space. Your illussion is made up of all of that, yet your fully fledged identity thinks its separate from it as a separate moving body. Once your identity is re identified as not only not primary... but all together a myth and story line, well then things will get interesting. Once that collapse unfolds you will look back at all the useless things you have written and warmly laugh

An identity soaked in duality will never realize a non dual state but will surely think more about it and claim, "thats it!!".

Where u are is respected.

[r6r6]

no1wakesup--That which percieves in you is the issue.

In you, out of you. A duality. There is no escaping duality, the pretending is that exists no duality.

Its simply a mask now pretending its on a spiritual path or journey.. and writting these words which are utterly meaningless. All if it, more story to relate and cling too.

A mask has two sides this side >(< this side and an edge ergo XYZ dimensions of occupied space.

Interestingly a similar icon{ tho not exactly the same as my concave-convex } is the Apple Macs logo associated with its 'Finder' program in the dock of Apples OS 10's screen.

Windows PC's Finder programs icon is a folder in folder holder and is called 'File Explorer' and in the 'Tasks Bar'.

No assumptions or beliefs anywhere. Your experience is possible and only filters through an experiencer. You as experiencer are the root of separation and do not exist without the experience. You do not take, who you are still obliviously identified with, into that which has no other.

Experiencer is 3D ditto the above XYZ. Also see four kinds of twoness.
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synerg...igs/f7310.html

The foundation of your identity is made up of subject and object. That's how you became the center of experience...

Another duality.

Once that collapse unfolds you will look back at all the useless things you have written and warmly laugh

Laughing is 3D phenomena. Ditto all of the above.

An identity soaked in duality will never realize a non dual state but will surely think more about it and claim, "thats it!!".

Ive identified two non-dualities.. The thing is they do not exist in isolation from the third, and the third is occupied space that in of itself has three primary types.

r6

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

That which percieves in you is the issue. Its simply a mask now pretending its on a spiritual path or journey.. and writting these words which are utterly meaningless. All if it, more story to relate and cling too.

No assumptions or beliefs anywhere. Your experience is possible and only filters through an experiencer. You as experiencer are the root of separation and do not exist without the experience. You do not take, who you are still obliviously identified with, into that which has no other.

The foundation of your identity is made up of subject and object. That's how you became the center of experience... and your experience the landscape of linear time and space. Your illussion is made up of all of that, yet your fully fledged identity thinks its separate from it as a separate moving body. Once your identity is re identified as not only not primary... but all together a myth and story line, well then things will get interesting. Once that collapse unfolds you will look back at all the useless things you have written and warmly laugh

An identity soaked in duality will never realize a non dual state but will surely think more about it and claim, "thats it!!".

Where u are is respected.

Hello no1, I don't want to interrupt your exchange with Daz. Merely to add a few thoughts to the discussion.

With all due respect, this could be seen the essence of dualistic thinking, in that it is either/or and uses concepts like "never". In reality, we do experience both unity and individuation simultaneously -- and if we have not yet experienced this , we always have the potential to do so.

We are individuated, but we are not separate.
I quoted U2 above and I'll repeat it here...we are one, but we're not the same, and we get to carry each other. A beautifully succinct description of the both/and reality of our existence of individuation within unity. As well as a pointer or revelation as to how we manifest that simultaneous experience of individuation within unity.

If you read both the entire post #97 and Daz's prior post, you may have a better understanding of this both/and proposition of individuation within unity, and why this foundational construct (our material existence) for our tangible, manifest, engaged experience of the eternal in our day-to-day lives (in this "now" moment and place).
(You can refer to post #97 or go here: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...2&postcount=97)

I would suggest neither consciousness nor existence are limited to an either/or proposition (of "either duality or nonduality", etc.). In my experience, as the heart-led consciousness expands (i.e., as the integrated, individuated singularity of the centred self comes into ever greater alignment with Spirit, or One), it is ever more a becoming, an expansion, and a metamorphosis into a "both/and" proposition, many times over. And that is because there are always the elements of awareness, engagement, acceptance -- and of course the conscious choice -- of the individuated consciousness that allow for expansion of consciousness within or by means of authentic love (which the mystics call the exchange of grace or spirit with self, with others, and with all that is).

With awareness and expansion of mind, and equally (cannot stress this enough) with awareness and expansion of heart, our consciousness becomes ever more imbued with clarity, acceptance, equanimity, expansiveness, and focus, within its singularity of centred alignment with One in authentic love. (In mystical terms, we could say the right and the left hands of God become equally empowered or illuminated within your individuated aspect of the divine Oneness.) Likewise, we become ever more integrated and at one with the consciousness of all that is (One), which is equally simply who we are at centre.

We start from a perceptual foundation of duality in our material 3D existence, and as we grow and expand our hearts and minds, we become (that is, we are in process of becoming) ever more aware of the illusion of separation and the integral connection, the foundational unity underlying and uniting all that is. And all the while, we manifest the unity within our individuated existence by taking conscious choices day-to-day on the ground (temporal individuation) to align our intention and our actions with who we are at centre (eternal/timeless unity).

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Yes I agree with this .

Just because as individuals we entertain our own point of perception doesn't mean that all individuals see others as separate from what they are ..

A dual environment doesn't equal a perception of separation ..

Duality can encompass a sense of oneness .


x daz x

Agreed. It can, and more to the point, ideally it will be so, and for every unique individuation of Spirit.

Realising our individuated connection to one another and to all that is, is among our most critical works of any lifetime. It is our reason for being, along with the equally great work of ever more knowing and consciously becoming (i.e., intending and choosing with great love, in alignment with spirit) who we truly are at centre.

These are two equally key aspects of the same greater truth, entwined and enmeshed with one other (so to speak). Knowing the reality of individuated self both within and as unity (each a unique fractal of One), and knowing the connection self and of all that is, as unity (infinite individuation as One).

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

[no1wakesup]

Duality is not the illusion, its the identication within that conceptual experience which is the misperception/illusion. You as the identified perciever/persona are the ultimate mask. The world is fine without the importance of you as a separate self. The nature of this physical reality will still hold to its nature without someone there to identify with it. Most on the spiritual path confuse awareness with a separate one still there in identity. That's all.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Duality is not the illusion, its the identication within that conceptual experience which is the misperception/illusion. You as the identified perciever/persona are the ultimate mask.

No1, hello. I would say that if one thinks duality in the most limited and finite sense of 3D materiality is ALL that exists, then yes, that is an illusory perception/identification.

It still serves the critical purpose of providing a context for choice and thus growth of individuated consciousness.

However, this growth typically doesn't take off beyond a certain point without moving into an awakened, heart-led consciousness. Meaning centred in authentic love, or Spirit. ( I prefer to just say centred, or aligned with spirit, to designate the multidimensional consciousness and being that we are, individuated in unity. )

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

The world is fine without the importance of you as a separate self. The nature of this physical reality will still hold to its nature without someone there to identify with it. Most on the spiritual path confuse awareness with a separate one still there in identity. That's all.

I don't actually agree with the value assessment. When consciousness awakens, the universe fundamentally changes. It does matter. Self-aware sentience matters. Heart-led consciousness matters. Our contributions matter, IMO, at the most foundational level.

The world (in the sense of Oneness) is as it is in this moment, precisely for each of us and all of us as individuated consciousness (including various forms of collective consciousness) to ever more truly know and be who we are at centre. And not one of us is extraneous or replaceable. That IMO is an extremely dehumanising and dangerous position. Authentic love of each and all means every single one is the whole and is equal to the whole, in "worth" or "value". And every single one is no greater than all else and all others. That is why authentic love in being actively seeks and desires/wills the highest good of the others/all that is, equally to the self. AND seeks and wills the highest good of the self, equally to all else/all others.

Moreover, physical death does not mean any one of us ceases to be as consciousness, which is timeless. if even a single quanta of either energy or matter blipped out of existence, this entire universe ceases to be and "falls into" the next most compatible rung of material existence, which differs in its foundational existence by whatever is missing or lost. That is, in physical and metaphysical terms, the manifest truth of the value or importance of every single spec of What Is.

We are individually (as incarnated individuated consciousness) no less in spiritual worth or value than all that is. That too is an eternal truth.

Peace & blessings
7L

[r6r6]

There is Xx{ mom } and Xy{ Dad } and yes they are connected to each other minimally by gravity ergo as is all of occupied space Universe ergo the oneness every speaks of but none can be specfic as to what they actually mean by their comments.

So mom's X cell recieves either X or y from dad.

I.e. your or I are concieved as the new Xx or Xy incarnation, however, were still not and individual that is separate from the mom. The individual only comes after birth.

Individual (((Xx))) and individual (((Xy)))

(X) or (y) > ((Xy)) or ((Xx)) > (((Xx))) or (((Xy))) > potential access to concepts of Universe aka Uni-V-erse ( ^v )( v^)

( ) = gravity

^v^v = sine-wave reality

)( = dark energy