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23-01-2018, 12:44 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
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Experience and meditation
Discussion question: Is meditation an experience?
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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23-01-2018, 03:55 AM
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Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
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Are we considering meditation in terms of form or formlessness?
On the levels of form (ie mentally, emotionally, physically), meditation is an experience, with a beginning and an end.
On the levels of formlessness, Being simply is. There is no beginning or end.
Consciousness is the key. Does consciousness go out into form and identify with movement? Or does consciousness go inwards to formlessness and rest in the stillness of Being?
So meditation is both an experience and not an experience. It depends where we are coming from.
Peace.
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23-01-2018, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
On the levels of formlessness, Being simply is. There is no beginning or end.
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It is said that the formless realms can be somewhat distinguished from each other.
The formless realm of perception of the infinity of space,
The formless realm of perception of the infinity of consciousness.
The formless realm of perception of nothingness
and the formless realm of neither perception nor non-perception.
There are just the higher Jhana's and they do appear to rise from one to the next.
There also seem to be 5 distinct pure land states attainable through concentration meditation.
With Love
Eelco
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23-01-2018, 05:04 AM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
So meditation is both an experience and not an experience. It depends where we are coming from.
Peace.
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Spot on. Thanks, iamthat.
BT
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23-01-2018, 05:05 AM
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Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
It is said that the formless realms can be somewhat distinguished from each other.
The formless realm of perception of the infinity of space,
The formless realm of perception of the infinity of consciousness.
The formless realm of perception of nothingness
and the formless realm of neither perception nor non-perception.
There are just the higher Jhana's and they do appear to rise from one to the next.
There also seem to be 5 distinct pure land states attainable through concentration meditation.
With Love
Eelco
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Thanks Eelco: I will look this up.
My "style" when I first learnt Buddhism was to minimize knowledge of the concepts so I could learn (without predisposed concepts) what each experience was. Now though I would be interested and will look this up. Thanks for the pointer -
BT
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23-01-2018, 07:19 PM
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Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
It is said that the formless realms can be somewhat distinguished from each other.
The formless realm of perception of the infinity of space,
The formless realm of perception of the infinity of consciousness.
The formless realm of perception of nothingness
and the formless realm of neither perception nor non-perception.
There are just the higher Jhana's and they do appear to rise from one to the next.
There also seem to be 5 distinct pure land states attainable through concentration meditation.
With Love
Eelco
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Thanks for these descriptions of the various levels of formlessness, Eelco. As BT says, further pondering on the meaning is required.
The mind may struggle to understand how there can be differentiations within formlessness, but the teachings of Blavatsky/Bailey agree that there are such differentiations. These different levels are called the Buddhic, the Atmic, the Monadic and (at the top) the plane of Adi or the Divine. I don't know if there is a direct correspondence between these planes and the higher Jhanas Eelco mentions.
Peace.
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23-01-2018, 10:45 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Are we considering meditation in terms of form or formlessness?
On the levels of form (ie mentally, emotionally, physically), meditation is an experience, with a beginning and an end.
On the levels of formlessness, Being simply is. There is no beginning or end.
Consciousness is the key. Does consciousness go out into form and identify with movement? Or does consciousness go inwards to formlessness and rest in the stillness of Being?
So meditation is both an experience and not an experience. It depends where we are coming from.
Peace.
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As per usual your post has a centering, planets lining up – mind coming to rest and finding peace - effect on my mind.
Thanks for these iamthat.
*
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23-01-2018, 11:02 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Are we considering meditation in terms of form or formlessness?
On the levels of form (ie mentally, emotionally, physically), meditation is an experience, with a beginning and an end.
On the levels of formlessness, Being simply is. There is no beginning or end.
Consciousness is the key. Does consciousness go out into form and identify with movement? Or does consciousness go inwards to formlessness and rest in the stillness of Being?
So meditation is both an experience and not an experience. It depends where we are coming from.
Peace.
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Of course there is experience during meditation, but can meditation really be referring to a kind of experience and/or a state of mind? I don't see how it could be, because the experience is changing, and mind states to come and go. It seems to me that is has no dependent qualities at all, just as 'being' implies 'existent' in the most overall sense.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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23-01-2018, 11:57 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: In my cocoon.
Posts: 6,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Of course there is experience during meditation, but can meditation really be referring to a kind of experience and/or a state of mind? I don't see how it could be, because the experience is changing, and mind states to come and go. It seems to me that is has no dependent qualities at all, just as 'being' implies 'existent' in the most overall sense.
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Where you say, " no dependent qualities at all" can you expand on this please Gem?
__________________
“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville
Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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24-01-2018, 12:43 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Discussion question: Is meditation an experience?
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Good afternoon Gem
One you live thru and know for what it is, the other is door way
__________________
Have fun and enjoy
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