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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #121  
Old 28-04-2011, 08:45 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innerlight
Most people that are in those shoes see death as an escape from the pain and suffering they are in. They think that if they died they could get out of the pain they are in, and things would get better. It does sound like a good thought... However, that is a chance you would be taking. Perhaps it's better, perhaps it's worse. Does one really want to take the chance to find out if it's better? To me the worst thought one could have in those shoes would be the possibility of having to come back and do it all over again. If one life is rough imagine having to do it a second time, or a third.
Perhaps in another Life we come at it from a different angle, we are different people with different backgrounds and experiences but the same Soul. Perhaps if she did go through the same thing again she might be able to cope better. The other possibility is that perhaps she gained everything she needed to from that particular experience the first time and won't need to go through it a second time. All we'll ever have I suppose is conjecture according to beliefs. But then, Free Will kicking in it's perhaps something she might decide not to go through again.
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  #122  
Old 28-04-2011, 03:42 PM
Bluegreen
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I have always read that suicide is never good unless it is done for selfless reasons such as, for example, to stop oneself from betraying other people under torture.
We all have a role to fulfill and to commit suicide would leave a hole that cannot be filled by any other soul.
I have also read that the first thing someone said after committing suicide was "How stupid! Now I have to do it all over again." (It was in a book by Michael Newton.)

Quote:
Only Death may open the door to his Inn, and he who tries to enter as a felon shall be imprisoned. I have told you,..., that God does not give His children a burden they cannot carry if they will but use their strength. ... Each time that we are born there is a road which we must travel; in it there are valleys and mountains; wineshops and prisons. The road is not of our choosing, though it was made by us long since, but the manner of our journey lies in our own hands. The time we must spend on the road is allotted by God, and it has been decreed by Him that we must wait for death to summon us home. If this were not so, all of us who can see a little beyond the limitations of the flesh would put off our bodies like a leper's cloak: for beyond death there is all that we long to find on earth, in its perfection.
[...]
She was bound into the present, cut off not only from time but from her own spirit, so that when the water from her journey as Lucia returns into the jar of her experience, with it will go a memory so strong that she will never again seek the same way of escape: the escape that is no escape.
From Life as Carola by Joan Grant. A remembered life in 16th century Italy.
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  #123  
Old 28-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Lynn Lynn is offline
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I am one of the thought that at times maybe one does have to come back to do it all over again, with the hopes that one gets it right. At times the best lessons are learned from having the same struggle over and over again til that light bulb goes on and say OK solution.

What is the saying thrid time lucky. I look at how many times in me life that saying can well apply. Too the oppostie to that be three strikes your out.....all in persepctive really. Balance and counter balance.

Free will, the ability of one to make choices, free from certain kinds of constraints.
It is the ability to make a choice on an action that might well have various alternatives. We can look at free will being connected to moral codes of conduct. Where one has to be true to the rules the govern one’s actions. It too goes deeper than just that as we are more than the physical body we have . There is a Soul to us that we too have responsibly to for that path of learning. Free will on that level might well mean just being able to show and know the value of LOVe and to extend that in friendships. NOT to always have it on the level of moral responsibilities.

One's ask me would I choose to again have the NDE I had, and I say yes as from that came a lot of changes and growth in learnings and respect. While I do still suffer the effects of the damage done in that event I wake embracing being here. I embrace that very LIFE that came so close to being gone from me. I had FREE WILL to come back, I know that.


Lynn
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  #124  
Old 28-04-2011, 08:09 PM
innerlight innerlight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Perhaps in another Life we come at it from a different angle, we are different people with different backgrounds and experiences but the same Soul. Perhaps if she did go through the same thing again she might be able to cope better. The other possibility is that perhaps she gained everything she needed to from that particular experience the first time and won't need to go through it a second time. All we'll ever have I suppose is conjecture according to beliefs. But then, Free Will kicking in it's perhaps something she might decide not to go through again.

There is always that possibility. Well, if we say that past lives, and future lives exist. It is a nice thought to say well if I had another chance I could do things differently... but why wait till the next life? Why not do them now?

Yes, it is all conjecture, as some will not believe what they hear no matter how many times they hear it. They will only believe it when they experience it themselves, and sometimes they may dismiss it as tricks of the mind.

To be in those shoes is not a pleasant place to be in. Where you've lost all hope that the only option you feel you can make is the loss of life. Depression is one of the worst things a person can go through. It is a shame that people do not get the proper help they need and only get fed pills to silence, and numb their pain and suffering.
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  #125  
Old 29-04-2011, 01:25 AM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteShaman
Anything is possible......using your own words.
Maybe some people do know what others don't. It is possible.
Look at the Tibetan Wheel of Life and Death.
Who is to say what is known or not just because we may not know.
Just saying...........

This is true. The Tibetan monks and many other sages would say they have memories from not only other lives but even the "inbetween", what we call the afterlife or the spirit realm.

Regarding suicide, I would think it probably means you will have to learn those lessons again...in whatever way is appropriate. The biggest lesson being that the divine presence is always around us and within us, and that our connection to Source is a great wellspring of strength and light.

Peace & blessings to all,
7L
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  #126  
Old 29-04-2011, 10:34 AM
LIFE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innerlight
If fear predominates your mind you would then bring fear to you in the mental planes. Faster than you could imagine in the physical plane. If you are stuck in suffering then upon death you would continue to be stuck in suffering, and possible into a void of nothingness. So our fears and sufferings will not cease because we are deceased.

First of all, this and every other theory about what happens after death, if anything at all other than obliteration/end of experience, is firmly in the realm of pure speculation.

You actually seem to be drumming up fear, which seems contrary to the thrust of your post. "You better get rid of fear, or fear will throw you into a world you will really fear, like a "void of nothingness."

First of all, nothingness couldn't be experienced, because there is, by definition, nothing. But this is beside the point.

Interestingly enough, you seem to be exploiting one's fear when you imply unimaginable horrors of this "void of nothingness". Thus, you are utilizing fear to convince one of the necessity of eliminating all fears. And this is precisely where things get convoluted and circular. Based upon your conclusions, it seems valid that one should fear the consequences of not releasing their fears -the fearful state that this fear will purportedly immerse them in.

And, interestingly enough, what you've seemingly revealed may be your very own fear. Your own fear of fear, or more precisely, your fear of dying in fear. I guess Winston Churchill was right.

Last edited by LIFE : 29-04-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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  #127  
Old 29-04-2011, 03:04 PM
innerlight innerlight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIFE
First of all, this and every other theory about what happens after death, if anything at all other than obliteration/end of experience, is firmly in the realm of pure speculation.

You actually seem to be drumming up fear, which seems contrary to the thrust of your post. "You better get rid of fear, or fear will throw you into a world you will really fear, like a "void of nothingness."

First of all, nothingness couldn't be experienced, because there is, by definition, nothing. But this is beside the point.

Interestingly enough, you seem to be exploiting one's fear when you imply unimaginable horrors of this "void of nothingness". Thus, you are utilizing fear to convince one of the necessity of eliminating all fears. And this is precisely where things get convoluted and circular. Based upon your conclusions, it seems valid that one should fear the consequences of not releasing their fears -the fearful state that this fear will purportedly immerse them in.

And, interestingly enough, what you've seemingly revealed may be your very own fear. Your own fear of fear, or more precisely, your fear of dying in fear. I guess Winston Churchill was right.

I was not using fear, or trying to drum up fear.. I was merely showing what could happen if people hold on to fear upon passing.. But it seems people would rather hold onto their fear instead of let it go. I suppose it's a fear of letting go of fear. It is their prerogative to do so if that is what they chose.

It's always interesting when people say things how others will twist it around to be about them, and how they truly feel. I have no fear of dying, or holding onto fear. I let go of things such as this.

I was stating that just because you die does not mean you become someone else. You are who you are. Your thoughts will carry with you until you let go of them. Some thoughts do become imprinted into us.

I never said you would go to a void of nothingness, but it seems people will hold onto such thoughts. Those that end up in such places end up because that is what they want to believe. Not because they are punished and sent there for the rest of eternity. Unless they chose to believe they deserve such a thing.
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  #128  
Old 29-04-2011, 03:45 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Quote:
To be in those shoes is not a pleasant place to be in. Where you've lost all hope that the only option you feel you can make is the loss of life. Depression is one of the worst things a person can go through. It is a shame that people do not get the proper help they need and only get fed pills to silence, and numb their pain and suffering.

When help more often than not comes in the form of pills or talking to people who may or may not get the gist of why one suffers so that they have thoughts of checking out, is not much in the way of comfort and/or answers but most of all TIMELY. If whatever (X) a person feels they need to alter their thinking about seriously taking their own lives, does not appear on the horizon, it's the next logical belief that it doesn't exist or won't exist in time to help them steer away from doing it. This is where their anxiety is the next stepping stone towards that goal. There are pills that do not bring on more danger to help minimize one's anxiety, (e.g. lorazepam, etc.) but part of any drug or any assist may need to be something that the patient believes in, the placebo effect is oftentimes as much a part of the effectiveness as the pill or procedure itself.

All the more reason to spend more energy honoring their memory as opposed to judging or expounding on 'the cure' or 'the answer' to this sad sad issue.
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  #129  
Old 29-04-2011, 04:08 PM
innerlight innerlight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvergirl
When help more often than not comes in the form of pills or talking to people who may or may not get the gist of why one suffers so that they have thoughts of checking out, is not much in the way of comfort and/or answers but most of all TIMELY. If whatever (X) a person feels they need to alter their thinking about seriously taking their own lives, does not appear on the horizon, it's the next logical belief that it doesn't exist or won't exist in time to help them steer away from doing it. This is where their anxiety is the next stepping stone towards that goal. There are pills that do not bring on more danger to help minimize one's anxiety, (e.g. lorazepam, etc.) but part of any drug or any assist may need to be something that the patient believes in, the placebo effect is oftentimes as much a part of the effectiveness as the pill or procedure itself.

All the more reason to spend more energy honoring their memory as opposed to judging or expounding on 'the cure' or 'the answer' to this sad sad issue.

Actually many of those pills do bring on a danger and that is in some instances those pills increase depression and bring about suicidal tendencies. However that does not mean they should not be used if they are in dire need. And as you said a person that has firmly set their mind on what they want will not be easy to sway to a different opinion. No matter how many pills, or talks they are given until they decide differently things may not change for them. That is when support, love, and comfort come into play.

Is their a "cure" if there was this would not be an issue. The only thing that we can do is support and love them and be with them when they need it. Most in those shoes feel they are alone, and perhaps if they new they weren't it may help them.
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  #130  
Old 29-04-2011, 04:43 PM
Lynn Lynn is offline
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What is very scary is how matter of factly the drug companies state that on the TV commercials. Use of this product might increase thoughts of sucide and should not be used by teens or woman that are pregnant or might become pregnant. OMG.

The chances are rather high maybe for most suffering from depression might well be in taht place of being closer to ideas of taking one's life. What the worry is be maybe that one does not "recognize" the signs there and might well act on "thoughts" alone. Sad really to be in that place.

Having lost one's to the taking of thier own life I know well how no matter at times what is done or what med's are used that be simply maybe their life path. Some so try and try and in the end it just becomes too much and they take that out. Right or wrong could it just be their path.

When the case is truly sad is when it is a child that has been bullied into that place. Where they feel that they can not say somehting and have the situation made right. That is a dark and lonely place, one I know as I was there. I never asked for help but I was "Given" the help I needed. I have often wondered on "why" that was, why some get that devine intervention and other's do not. Maybe it was simply not me time to check out of the body life.

What I can say to one's stuggling along DO NOT be affraid to reach out and talk about what is going on. There are avenues out there more and more so now.

Lynn
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