Jesus' teachings and what he said

Originally Posted by vecta3

hi, and that means, in order to live forever, that i should believe he is the christ or jesus or both and what does it mean to think either of those any way, or does it mean something else? either he speaks truth or not, the man himself is secondary i think,,to me to "believe" implies to accept without question and that feels dodgy

No wonder it feels dodgy Vecta !!! I never bought into the "Jesus" that's promoted by religion. It makes no sense to me either.


What scriptute speaks to me is : "You" are "Jesus Christ" ! The whole "teachings" of Jesus are about not worshipping anyone from the "outside" ... they mean to trust Yourself ! You are your own "savior" ... which means within You is the witnessing of "saving" yourself . What "saving" means" is simply .. relief ! Release ! Any Relief .. is "christ".... from the simplist to most complex. When one is hungry and releives it with food... that's Christ. You see ... scripture is actually profoundly simple .... but interpreted in infinite complex ways !

"You" "I" are Jesus ... Christ .. God. is what scripture is all about. Self Real-I-zation. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realize this appears quite diiferent from what is promoted by "religion". That's why "scipture" and "religion" are not the same at all. Religion uses scripture for it's social construct only, that's all. Religion is all about itself ! lol

[Amilius777]

I Agree with you.

I believe Jesus was the Guide to your own self-realization. I don't believe the traditional views of Self-Realization. Majority of people's realization is that they need to become a divine being or attain some Omnipresent-consciousness. This has no proof in any human experience- not even Jesus.

I believe self-realization is the full development of your individuality. I don't believe it is about you becoming a universal consciousness or some abstract Light. I have strong conviction that Jesus wanted people to be themselves!

Peter says to Jesus- "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God!" Jesus says- "Amen, Amen I say to you! The Father revealed this to you! You Peter will be the Rock of my Church!".

Ironically Jesus doesn't say- "You shall be the Christ!" Even though Peter realizes that divinity in Jesus and thus in all human beings, Jesus acknowledges Peter as the Rock, the head of a movement.

Jesus didn't want us running around being these abstract being of "Christ-consciousness". He wanted us to be ourselves. Some are meant to to be doctors, some lawyers, actors, artists, workers, priests, prophets, etc. But the Christ-consciousness is a universal body, a single ideal and state of mind.

People have this idea in Christianity that they have to saved from hell and become saints. New Agers think it is about becoming Psychic. Self-Realizationists think it is about becoming a Guru. It is about being your SELF, reaching the greatest heights of your self. For Jesus, it was being the Son of God, the promised Hebrew-later universal Savior. For Simon it was being Peter, the head of a spiritual movement. For Sidhartha it was being the awakened Buddha to help others awake from suffering. For Moses it was being the Deliverer for his people. For Ghandi it was the liberator of India. For Dahli it was being one of the greatest eccentric painters. For Mozart it was achieving the heights of musical genius.- ALbert Einstein is Einstein. Mozart is Mozart. Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ.

See what I mean? Don't change who you are. To repent in the Bible means to turn your mind away from selfishness and lower-mind thinking. Expand yourself and delve deep into the heights of Self. Only then can you truly love yourself, others, and God.

[psychoslice]

Jesus was just a man who had some good pointers, most were borrowed from others belief systems. We should not get stuck on Jesus, yes use the pointers if they help, if they don't then maybe use other pointers from others who have Awakened to their true Being.

The whole point is, find your own true Being or Self, use the pointers of others as you would use a thorn to dig out a thorn in your foot, after the thorn is out, you then throw away both thorns.



Just don't get too relaxed in the story of the one who has Awakened, that is second hand to you, the truth is never found in the dead past, it is ever flowing right within you, here, Now.

[Tobi]

I really agree with what Psycho says about finding your own path, your own way, your own truth -first hand.
But in my experience I've found Jesus to be a living Spirit. A Being from whom I can sense unconditional Love if I tune in, and don't tune Him out. I sense "Jesus" is a living energy. Not a historical thing at all. But here and now.
I have prayed for His assistance and help, (concerning other people who were in great need, and also for myself to listen only to true guidance and follow my own true Path) and seen the fruits of those prayers too.
Sometimes those things have been really "in your face" and sometimes quite subtle, but definite.
I didn't really used to be a "Jesus Person"! I respected those things but had no experience of them. But some things the last year have opened my eyes and my heart.
But nowhere does Jesus say you shouldn't listen to your own Soul, be alert to lessons all around, every day, and be observant of your own "lights" and conscience, and use your own common sense.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Tobi

I really agree with what Psycho says about finding your own path, your own way, your own truth -first hand.
But in my experience I've found Jesus to be a living Spirit. A Being from whom I can sense unconditional Love if I tune in, and don't tune Him out. I sense "Jesus" is a living energy. Not a historical thing at all. But here and now.

Well, now you've gotten into what time and space are, we are told ever since Einstein, Tobi.

"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday today, and forever!" (Apart from time.)

An Article on time and space and the material world.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=223236

[Amilius777]

How could there be any other way than Jesus?

Jesus enacted social justice and spiritual equality- brotherhood of human beings, fatherhood of God- the "Reign of God".

How the hell can there be anything higher?

The man died because of social injustice he bore on the cross. That which we sadly contribute to everyday as we ignore it all around us.

There is no pueso-Christ Being inside of you. There is no Gnostic "secret" knowledge junk. There is no- "I am God- We are all God!". There is NO Cosmic Christ. There is none of that!

The Christ-consciousness is so general it is like saying- 'The good-consciousness' or the 'saintly consciousness'.

You don't have to learn to become "one with god". I am convinced that this esoteric, Gnostic, new age spirituality etc is for the dogs.

Not one person on this planet has proven to me any of this stuff except that there is a higher consciousness than self-consciousness. That is it.

I don't have a "Universal Self". I am not a walking abstraction. I don't have to do yogi to become some sort of avatar.

I have my own path to this ideal that Christ taught. For me I am a Judaic-Wiccan Eschatologist. I believe we need to tend to our own self-love, the love of others, love of Nature, love of God, and help bringing social justice to the world.

[psychoslice]

What is higher than the man Jesus, is your own inner Being, Jesus only realized his own higher Consciousness, he then tried the best he could to point others to what he himself discovered. Don't believe in what Jesus said until you prove to yourself, that what he said was right or wrong. Never believe in a Christ, a Buddha or anything until it becomes your own experience, anything else will always be second-hand. When you yourself have experience what IS, you will then have no need to believe in what IS, you just simply live it.

[Amilius777]

Sorry Psycholice. I had to edit my post.

Maybe I have been a bit stubborn or unnerving but I think you and I are saying the same thing in different words.

I don't know if you have read the Jesus history by John Dominic Crossan and Bart Ehrman. It is fantastic reads.

I think the one thing you are missing is the puesdo-political/spiritual belief in Jesus. I think we tend to color the Gospels according the Four Evangelists as another way at looking to higher consciousness. Don't get me wrong they are! The Kingdom of God as this living reality within us is definitely the "Christ-consciousness" or whatever you call it. It is a collective humanity working towards divinity, or awareness of divinity which includes "Social Justice for the World". I don't think you can just color the story Jesus as a spiritual story about spiritualizing a small hamlet of Jews who later grew into Christianity.

I think you and many people miss the other side of Jesus' purpose. It has nothing to do with "finding your own inner Being". We already know that Jesus was trying to say that he was Our Soul communicating to our everyday human self. We can see that. Buddha did the same thing. But I think Jesus' examples of the Soul in harmony with the human self is what will save the world from injustice. Once the soul and body- the divine and human are united I think we are then technically "liberated" which means we can finally be at peace within ourselves which then makes peace for us all. No violence, no castes, no hate, etc.

But I think the story of Jesus needs to also be remembered as a pseudo-political supernatural drama where this Man was claiming to be a reformer in Israelite covenant (spirituality), and claiming to be Son of God or "Son of David" meant that he came with a social purpose as well. The only person like him in history was Ghandi (exclude the sexual stories about him). As the Messiah he is claiming to be a supernatural political figure who initiated a new age of thinking. We see the fruits of his labor in people who THINK FOR THEMSELVES today. It has taken centuries but at last his teachings are coming to fulfillment. And that is of course the second coming.

See I know you believe Jesus realized his own divinity and such. But I believe that Jesus was God or Divinity which became Man so that Men who have lost their way (the entire world) can become God (Divinity) again. I think he knew who he was from the time he was 12. Its like we are all stuck and attached to the Matrix and our own individual matrix. But jesus was cast into the Matrix and assumed one for himself to undo it all for us to follow.

[psychoslice]

Hi Amilius, yes that may be so, but I only see the deep spiritual side of what this man Jesus supposedly taught. Yes he did declare his divinity, but we also can declare our divinity. We must not shove men like Jesus up on a pedastal, we must meet them right where they are, that is in our level. Jeus never really did anything, he himself said, "I can do nothing, but the Father does all from within me". There are many beautiful stories here today, that point to our true inner Being, we only need to open our eyes, we need not keep going back to the old stories from the past, yes they have beauty within them, but they also have been tamped with and a lot of beauty has been lost.

I myself have learnt from the old sriptures, but now I make my own, I live my own scripture, I live my own prayer, I have given up secondhand knowledge, and have now discovered my own inner knowledge, this is where I live and this is all I can share, just like Jesus, the Buddha and the rest of them, they found their way and shared their way, now you must find your way, and just like them, share your way, after all you are the way.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Hi Amilius, yes that may be so, but I only see the deep spiritual side of what this man Jesus supposedly taught. Yes he did declare his divinity, but we also can declare our divinity. We must not shove men like Jesus up on a pedastal, we must meet them right where they are, that is in our level. Jeus never really did anything, he himself said, "I can do nothing, but the Father does all from within me". There are many beautiful stories here today, that point to our true inner Being, we only need to open our eyes, we need not keep going back to the old stories from the past, yes they have beauty within them, but they also have been tamped with and a lot of beauty has been lost.

I myself have learnt from the old sriptures, but now I make my own, I live my own scripture, I live my own prayer, I have given up secondhand knowledge, and have now discovered my own inner knowledge, this is where I live and this is all I can share, just like Jesus, the Buddha and the rest of them, they found their way and shared their way, now you must find your way, and just like them, share your way, after all you are the way.

Right On ... I am learning to take what make sense for me from each one and leave the dogma alone. As soon as I come across others bantering on what it wrong or right ... I'm turned off immediately and go elsewhere only to come back to those whom are accepting of me ... no matter what or who I am.

I will query only to try and make sense, but will never say it is this way because it was said or written here or there. That's for the academics, the theologians or intellect egos floating about the place. Right and wrong ... you must in order to understand ... criticism of the individual without questioning the order of things ... But rather Criticize the Order in which claims this or that as I will never be bound by the words of another ... other than what rings right in my own heart. Tune with the words of others I might ... but a far cry from the need to worship or follow some one.

I too now subscribe to my own rulings ... and not that of another. I do remain open ... but only receptive up to a point ... if ever anyone makes claims to this of that word of something other with regard to being right or wrong ... justify, prophecy or anything of that nature ... I leave the dogma where it belongs ...

With the barking intellects blowing their horns.

Such and such said ... good luck with that.