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  #271  
Old 19-10-2019, 02:11 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I'm really only saying to be aware of the truth as you experience it, but there may not be anything 'special' in that - or there might be - depending on the individual. The meditation itself wouldn't change because meditation is regardless of the experience different individuals have.

Per every Buddhist tradition a method of meditation is a means to bring about a result be it silence or bliss for example. Once one has achieved said result and mastered it they move on to a different meditation that brings about deeper and different results.

The individual depending on capacity may achieve the results quicker or slower than another but the goal of the practice does not change nor do the instructions of how to do the practice.
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  #272  
Old Yesterday, 06:38 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Originally Posted by jonesboy
I would agree with the Buddha that bliss can be a trap.

As you know there are stages of bliss/ecstasy.

***

Thatís interesting to hear.

In a happening of rapturous, explosive, ineffable, boundless bliss in renewal over an unquantifiable and immeasurable continuum of time, where there is nothing else other than bliss itself, then what is freedom and what is a trap ... for no one is present? Bliss alone remains as the soundless, ecstatic, self existent state of being of formless presence so pulsating.

***
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  #273  
Old Yesterday, 09:11 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Per every Buddhist tradition a method of meditation is a means to bring about a result be it silence or bliss for example. Once one has achieved said result and mastered it they move on to a different meditation that brings about deeper and different results.


There are various stages, but the 'way' is non-volitional, Which means you just observe and dhamma (nature) does the rest.



If you think you can do something to speed up or otherwise influence nature's way, the volition will be incited by the desire for whatever object of desire the mind has conjured. You will always be behind the one who does, and you will see it dream up a desired spiritual state, desire it, and employ the volition to make it is you want it to be. Problem is, you get caught up in the one who desires and assumes the position of 'me'.



Quote:
The individual depending on capacity may achieve the results quicker or slower than another but the goal of the practice does not change nor do the instructions of how to do the practice.


The one who thinks it can do something to speed up is very deceptive. Most teachers teach us we can do one thing or another to get what we want, and it's true we can have whatever we want, but as long as we are trying to make it as want it to be we cannot see it as it is. You can't 'just observe' unless you stop.


All these 'other practices' are sold on the premise you will get what you want. They have their purpose and benefit, but the cessation of volition is the way of purification. It is the end of kamma and hence liberation therefrom. The purification will continue after kamma has ceased, but then there is no concern for the rate at which it proceeds. One has simply ceased to add wood to the fire, so the fire burns out in its own time.
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  #274  
Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by r6r6r
We experience energy { nutrition } being fed to us from our mothers blood via the umbilical chord.

Then were born out ---via contraction/convergence--- and experience our first IN-spiration{ convergent } and EX{ out}-spiration { divergent }

Then, if lucky, we experience our mothers milk { nutrition } via suckling and she { mother } experiences........@**@.....

Then we{ infant } experiences sleep, sleep and more sleep

Structurally tuned-IN-ward /\ -- matter = 2 gravitees and 1 dark energy--

Systemically tuned-OUT-ward Y ----photon = 2 gravitees and 1 Dark Energy---

What does it mean to kill the buddha if you meet him on the road?
...reality IN --><-- OUT <---> and around (orbit), rules over illusion and perfection.....

https://www.learnreligions.com/kill-the-buddha-449940

..."The Four Great Bodhisattvia Vows;
.......I vow to free them.
........I vow to transform them.
...... I vow to perceive it.
......I vow to embody it."...

.................Space( Time *) i (* Time )Space............................

1} Space --metaphysical-3 and 4 .....( )( ).....
...convergent- divergent.....

2} Time ----physical/energy/frequency aka ----/\/\/---->
.......arrow-of-time is entropic i.e we cannot return to the womb...

3} metaphysical-1 mind.intellect/concepts i ---ego,

4} bilateral biologics/souls




In the self observation one is witness to the mind and all that it does. IOW, you know just what you do. It is utterly inexplicable and there is no reason why it is. It just is.
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  #275  
Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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Color ...

Quote:
Gem--In the self observation one is witness to the mind

ergo ......'I vow to perceive it'.... via the via nervous systems accessing of metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.
Quote:
and all that it does.

Four aspects of humans other animals do not do;

1} harvest information,

2} sort the info into catagories,

3} winnow out discovers of patterns and principles,

4} apply those patterns and principles in support of family, community, ecological environment that sustains us and integrity of Universe.

Paraphrasing B Fuller with those four.

Quote:
IOW, you know just what you do.


And for most part, learn from the experience

Quote:
It is utterly inexplicable and there is no reason why it is.


The reasons/purpose for existence of Universe, humans etc is applied only by humans, and again, via nervous system and its resultant access to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts.

Quote:
It just is.


My teacher once said, no, not even just is, only IS.

My modification of IS, is as follows via some partial parahrasing B Fuller again;

1} IS is modification/modulation of angle { /\ } and frequency { /\/\/ },

2} IS is ..."interefering and non-interfering patterns operating in pure principle"..B Fuller,

3} IS exists as;

.....1} macro-infinite non-occupied space, that, embraces/surrounds the following,

.....2} occupied space,

.......3}and that leads to a resultant access to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept, and that has resulted in my The Cosmic Trinity.

123, ABC, thats how easy Universe can be...sung to M Jackson song.

........Space( Time *) i (* Time )Space.....

Breath is more important than meditationergo hatha yoga teaches to focus on our breath or, the breathing process of IN-spiration and EX{out}-spiration.

Convergently IN-spiring leads to expansion filling lungs and expanding chest,

Divergent OUT-spiring leads to contraction of lungs and contraction of chest.

All pushing-OUT-ward phenomena of Universe, are a resulatant of pulling-IN-ward phenomena.

According to Fuller, teh closet we will ever come to knowing God, is the equanimity of the 24 chords balancing act with the 24 radii of the Vector Equlibrium{ VE }, as presented via construction of VE via four hexagonal planes, that in turn, have have both positive and negative angles ergo complex angular set as a complex wave pattern.

Here is LINK to those four hexagonal constructions

This positive and negative curvature is also found in a torus. The horizontal bisection of a torus looks like this ( )( )

To know God, or,

There is no God? That is the question, no?

" G " od/" U " niverse is the simplified Cosmic Trinity.

G-o-d/Uni-V-erse is a subset of the Cosmic Trinity

So some say, oh that kind of stuff requires to much conceptualizing and not enough experiencing, or mediating or sitting quietly { Zazen } or whatever else, that avoids thinking conceptually.

Too much struggling? To much effort? To much striving?

So I would ask you { Gem }, is there any buddhist teachings regarding ..to struggle...ex to struggle to find the 4-four-fold or 8-fold or how many ever folds of pathways to nirvana, blliss or whatever buddhism may struggle with?

I recall and ole saying, ..no pain, no gain....

I also recall once reading someone who stated that the one thing all good spiritual teachers had in common was that they all sweated every day.

And that leads me to think about our ex president, Jimmy Carter, who at 93, took a bad fall this week, bruised around his eye, got 23 stitches, then got out of bed and went to Nashville TN to help build homes for those less fortunate than himself, via his Habitat For Humanity foundation.
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"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
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  #276  
Old Yesterday, 04:07 PM
Legrand Legrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
It is utterly inexplicable and there is no reason why it is. It just is.

Hello Gem,

This is beautiful!

Enjoy!
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  #277  
Old Yesterday, 05:53 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
There are various stages, but the 'way' is non-volitional, Which means you just observe and dhamma (nature) does the rest.



If you think you can do something to speed up or otherwise influence nature's way, the volition will be incited by the desire for whatever object of desire the mind has conjured. You will always be behind the one who does, and you will see it dream up a desired spiritual state, desire it, and employ the volition to make it is you want it to be. Problem is, you get caught up in the one who desires and assumes the position of 'me'.

Who is bringing up desired states? We are talking about the systemic teachings of meditation. We are not talking about getting upset at a bad driver or coworkers for instance.

It is through meditation and then when it becomes one and the same with daily life that you can go with the flow of life.




Quote:
The one who thinks it can do something to speed up is very deceptive. Most teachers teach us we can do one thing or another to get what we want, and it's true we can have whatever we want, but as long as we are trying to make it as want it to be we cannot see it as it is. You can't 'just observe' unless you stop.


All these 'other practices' are sold on the premise you will get what you want. They have their purpose and benefit, but the cessation of volition is the way of purification. It is the end of kamma and hence liberation therefrom. The purification will continue after kamma has ceased, but then there is no concern for the rate at which it proceeds. One has simply ceased to add wood to the fire, so the fire burns out in its own time.

You stop adding wood to the fire by doing the practices. You observe from a state realized by clearing away the obstructions by doing the practices.

By faster methods, tantra is often defined as a faster means.

A simple example is mindfulness. Do you stop once you can observe your thoughts in or out of meditation? Is that it? Nothing more to do? Nothing further to realize?

Let’s just stick within meditation for observing thoughts. What is next? Any refinement? Is it then a desire to go deeper something it sounds like you would consider a bad thing?

Now you are saying practices are sold, propaganda to the masses. If you believe so then you are not talking Buddhism but Gemism. You are selling your personal view, your personal views on practices and not that which is taught in any Buddhist tradition.

I’m not a Buddhist, I don’t do their practices but I am honest about it. You should be as well.
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  #278  
Old Yesterday, 07:47 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Who is bringing up desired states? We are talking about the systemic teachings of meditation. We are not talking about getting upset at a bad driver or coworkers for instance.

It is through meditation and then when it becomes one and the same with daily life that you can go with the flow of life.






You stop adding wood to the fire by doing the practices. You observe from a state realized by clearing away the obstructions by doing the practices.

By faster methods, tantra is often defined as a faster means.

A simple example is mindfulness. Do you stop once you can observe your thoughts in or out of meditation? Is that it? Nothing more to do? Nothing further to realize?

Letís just stick within meditation for observing thoughts. What is next? Any refinement? Is it then a desire to go deeper something it sounds like you would consider a bad thing?

Now you are saying practices are sold, propaganda to the masses. If you believe so then you are not talking Buddhism but Gemism. You are selling your personal view, your personal views on practices and not that which is taught in any Buddhist tradition.

Iím not a Buddhist, I donít do their practices but I am honest about it. You should be as well.





' Now you are saying practices are sold, propaganda to the masses '



Maybe some Ashrams do this JB but it wouldn't happen in a Buddhist Teaching Centre.... that's why it's important to be very careful who you learn/study with.
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  #279  
Old Today, 02:57 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Who is bringing up desired states? We are talking about the systemic teachings of meditation. We are not talking about getting upset at a bad driver or coworkers for instance.


The tendency is to want something special so the volition is incited to bring about that sort of experience. This very common in cases where the 'beginner practice such as mindfulness is superceded by some sort of volitional exercise involving special breathing, visualisation etc. The urge that process should be faster will incite the volition to do something that speeds thing up.

Quote:
It is through meditation and then when it becomes one and the same with daily life that you can go with the flow of life.






You stop adding wood to the fire by doing the practices. You observe from a state realized by clearing away the obstructions by doing the practices.


You cease adding to the fire by 'just observing'. By just observing you'll become conscious of how you are adding wood...

Quote:
By faster methods, tantra is often defined as a faster means.

A simple example is mindfulness. Do you stop once you can observe your thoughts in or out of meditation? Is that it? Nothing more to do? Nothing further to realize?


Yes. you stop doing anything and just watch, but there is a lot to realise.


Quote:
Let’s just stick within meditation for observing thoughts. What is next? Any refinement? Is it then a desire to go deeper something it sounds like you would consider a bad thing?


I don't worry about thoughts particularly because they are just imaginary thoughts, so I stay with the real-lived experience through the feelings (vedana). The feelings go to a very subtle level, but the desire for special feelings will disturb the balanced equanimity of the mind. The meditation is not to just watch passively, but to look closer at what is there. This involves no desire for 'something else'. Such desire is antithetical to meditation practice, but ardent attention to 'this' is required.


Quote:
Now you are saying practices are sold, propaganda to the masses.


To me that is obvious.


Quote:
If you believe so then you are not talking Buddhism but Gemism. You are selling your personal view, your personal views on practices and not that which is taught in any Buddhist tradition.


I'm only explaining mindfulness, and it is true that you are aware of your experience as it is.

Quote:
I’m not a Buddhist, I don’t do their practices but I am honest about it. You should be as well.




I understand the implication and the inherent comparison, but mindfulness means I know how I react to it is what I generate, and that has nothing to do with you. It's nothing special - but I know what's going on with myself. That's the practice I advocate, and honesty is essential.
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