Cause of existence

[Gem]

Complex area of the philosophy - rebirth - but it's related to kamma, which is volition, and 'volition' as used in Buddhism refers to both action and reaction (including 'mental formations'). There is very little distinction between these as volition regards basically a dynamic tension between aversions and cravings in one tense or another. The rebirth refers to both a process where the mind/body is renewed in each moment and also the reincarnation of a new born body after this one's death, but reincarnation can occur on the physical human plane, as ghostly, or in dimensions ranging from demonic to angelic. 31 dimensions or planes were listed in Pali canon - though I can't remember them.

Volition is what drives the egocentric self from the past to the future and produces the illusion of an entity enduring time, but the teachings say this is transformation and there is no entity that possesses the qualities of form. Formations are destroyed and renewed in each moment, having no continuity at all, but characteristics of the destroyed are carried by the recreated, appearing as anicca (changing).

The end of the cycle of rebirth, therefore, is the cessation of volition, but this cessation can not be desirable, because desire is volition, which is kamma, which is re-birth.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

What about hunger, sickness, property, bullied by others, hot temper, no shielder to live or stay, handicap ........ All suffering you only said, stress. You know, what stress mean?

Stress comes in many shapes and sizes Jeremy, some comes from outside sources and some from inside. In my opinion it is caused by wanting things to be different than what they are, cravings.

Life will always contain stress and the only way we can help ourselves is to learn how to deal with it, it will always be there in the background like a tiger ready to pounce, but we can train it.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by sky123

Stress comes in many shapes and sizes Jeremy, some comes from outside sources and some from inside. In my opinion it is caused by wanting things to be different than what they are, cravings.

Life will always contain stress and the only way we can help ourselves is to learn how to deal with it, it will always be there in the background like a tiger ready to pounce, but we can train it.

Stress is mental, but not all carving or worry should result stress. Like we do our daily work , aim for higher post, helping others, fishing in river, enjoy tv show..... These are all craving by us. That's why ground said, only stress that be the factors for Buddha Sakyamuni thinking of to cease of rebirth. Sky, it should have a better understanding and options for the reason why not to rebirth is a better choice.

For example, I'm fighting for the godly and human peace but I'm not stress but I'm happy that I can help others this way. When I suffer, I'm never stress. Ground's answer is leaving out a lot of factors , contents of life and possibilities. So it's not the right answer.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Ground

In the context of this buddhist forum it is relevant only if there is stress or not. In the context of life in general dissatisfaction cannot arise when there is no stress. It is impossible to be dissatisfied when there is no stress.


yes but the question is whether he/she is willing to and what conditionings he/she is willing to stop or to feed.


Knowing this and knowing that stress is concomitant only if it is fed, then where's the problem?

What about : I suffer but I'm happy but it isn't psychological anomaly心理变态. We enjoy being on our way to be rich, to be a Spirit-Buddha, to be successful in the future...... These produce no stress or anxiety because we have to pass the process and we enjoy it.

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
Is this why Buddhists dont want to come back?

It is such a sad religion from my perspective but then again
I can't imagine what lies beyond existence.

Buddha's "Parable of the Arrow" has often been used to illustrate the Buddha's teachings on questions like this. Buddha taught that people who concern themselves with the origins of the universe, creation stories, and other such topics are missing the point of his practice or teachings or path.

In the Majjhima Nikaya, a potential follower asks the Buddha for an answer to the problem of the first cause or origins of what exists:

Buddha's answer: (Parable of the Arrow)

"Suppose someone was hit by a poisoned arrow and his friends and relatives found a doctor able to remove the arrow. If this man were to say, 'I will not have this arrow taken out until I know whether the person who had shot it was a priest, a prince or a merchant, his name and his family. I will not have it taken out until I know what kind of bow was used and whether the arrowhead was an ordinary one or an iron one.' That person would die before all these things are ever known to him."

Buddha's point was that we should concern ourselves with understanding ourselves, not spend our time speculating about things we cannot know now.

Buddha shunned metaphysical speculations. He refrained from these subjects and thought that origin-stories about how the universe and humanity started were avyakata (unanswerable), given our empirical constraints.

Buddhist's believe there is more than the human existence or experience, you can google "mind stream" to get into those beliefs. They tend to be overly technical philosophy so not fun or easy to read or understand. The point is like I said above, Buddhism does not like to "talk about" these subjects so the information is pretty limited, technical and dry.

The basic "beliefs" I have inferred from teachings is our nature and karma determines the body we get and where we are re-born. If one becomes very advanced, reaches nirvana etc, one does not get re-born in human form any more unless they choose to to be a teacher of others, or a Bodhisattva. Some Buddhist's schools flat out say this while the majority skirt around the topic and don't talk about it. So Buddhism basically says we continue on after we have advanced beyond a human form, but then they don't say much more than that. They don't fill in the blanks like other religions do. But then Buddha made it clear in his teachings speculating about this stuff was a waste of time. Now I can see where one may think, well this is sad, to not believe in heaven or something, but really Buddhism does not say we cannot believe in such things. Buddhism just generally says, know yourself, it does not say what you need to believe or not believe. Believe whatever makes you happy is my idea. In fact, Pure Land Buddhist's believe in and describe all kinds of astral realms we can eventually live in when we are advanced.

One metaphor I like is consciousness is like finding oneself on a moving train in the very last car, the caboose. In this caboose, we don't know anything. If we look out the window, we can make out far, far away the engine car of the train and can make out a figure there. Whoever is in the first car must know more than us. We could sit down and think about the train, speculate about why it exists, about how we came to be on it, about who is in the engine car and what do they know that we don't. We can think about where the train is going, where it came from, and on and on. OR we could explore the caboose, our current situation, our current environment and context. Explore what we can know. Then, though learning everything we can about the caboose, we can find the door out and forward. We can find our way into the next car forward, thus we get closer to the engine car at the front of the train. By doing this eventually we reach the front of the train and all of our questions will be known to us.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

What about : I suffer but I'm happy but it isn't psychological anomaly心理变态.

One may physically suffer but be happy, yes. But it is impossible to mentally suffer and be happy.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

We enjoy being on our way to be rich, to be a Spirit-Buddha, to be successful in the future...... These produce no stress or anxiety because we have to pass the process and we enjoy it.

One may be looking foward to something and enjoy looking foward to something independent of whether that something will exists in the future or not.
However if one is hoping for something not being certain whether that something will exist in the future or not then this causes stress.

[BlueSky]

Given that a person doesn't desire not to be reborn, in order to entertain such a belief you either have to have great faith in it, great faith in something other than rebirth or a great dislike for life.
My life is one of suffering but also one of joy and beauty. I'm not rich and I've been poor. I have had sickness and health. I absolutely adore life and I can't imagine coming to dislike it.
I'm not looking for answers or truth here, I'm looking to understand this aspect of Buddhism from those who feel they understand it.
They even seem to desire to come to a place where even food is not enjoyed.
I wonder what the witness, the earth, thinks about one not wanting to come back lol

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

But why then the negative as being "stuck" in the cycle of rebirth? What's wrong with rebirth in Buddhism? I think they see existence as negative but I don't so I'm asking.

I would say they don't see existence as negative, but see existence here as negative. I think it's more about we are here, in this "land of suffering" because of our nature or ignorance and negative karma. Our consciousness determines where we are born or live. So if we reach enlightenment and nirvana etc, purify what we are, then other realms are more suited to us. Basically, the earths energy is dense and course and is a low vibration and we are here because likes attract each other. We are of a lower vibration and consciousness so earth is where we are suited. As we raise our vibration or our nature, this attunes us to other worlds that are also of this vibration or nature. Buddhist give up desire. They don't seek money or fame or pleasure or other worldly things. Most of the societies and cultures of this place are built around seeking and acquiring these things. One can watch the news, or tv, or movies, to see why this place is viewed to be of a lower nature.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Ground

One may physically suffer but be happy, yes. But it is impossible to mentally suffer and be happy.


One may be looking foward to something and enjoy looking foward to something independent of whether that something will exists in the future or not.
However if one is hoping for something not being certain whether that something will exist in the future or not then this causes stress.

I quote it from internet:

The word suffering is sometimes used in the narrow sense of physical pain, but more often it refers to mental pain, or more often yet it refers to pain in the broad sense, i.e. to any unpleasant feeling, emotion or sensation. The word pain usually refers to physical pain, but it is also a common synonym of suffering. The words pain and suffering are often used both together in different ways. For instance, they may be used as interchangeable synonyms. Or they may be used in 'contradistinction' to one another, as in "pain is physical, suffering is mental", or "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional". Or they may be used to define each other, as in "pain is physical suffering", or "suffering is severe physical or mental pain".
%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Stress is optional invitation but not inevitable. I seldom stress it depends on how a person's outlook. It isn't a+b=c. It can be a+b=xyz....... That's mental stress is variable to different human.

[Bohdiyana]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Given that a person doesn't desire not to be reborn, in order to entertain such a belief you either have to have great faith in it, great faith in something other than rebirth or a great dislike for life.
My life is one of suffering but also one of joy and beauty. I'm not rich and I've been poor. I have had sickness and health. I absolutely adore life and I can't imagine coming to dislike it.
I'm not looking for answers or truth here, I'm looking to understand this aspect of Buddhism from those who feel they understand it.
They even seem to desire to come to a place where even food is not enjoyed.
I wonder what the witness, the earth, thinks about one not wanting to come back lol

Is it your belief that once we "escape the cycle of re-birth" we cease to exist? This is not really a Buddhist belief though a lot of people think it is due to all of the very complex philosophy of Buddhism. Words like mind-stream, consciousness, nirvana, etc are very complex and one can take many years to understand the complete meanings but then there are like 24 schools of Buddhism that all disagree with each other in small or large ways so yea! Plus, a school like Zen Buddhism teaches to not bother with any of that stuff.

So consciousness goes on in some form even after you escape the cycle of re-birth. Also to escape this cycle only says we don't have to come back, not that we can't. Like I said before, Buddhism teaches we can come back to teach others forever if necessary, after we have escaped the cycle of re-birth. Some are said to take vows to keep coming back until every single consciousness reaches enlightenment.

As far as wanting to escape it.... well you and me are in this little space in time and place. Imagine you are 90 years old, most of your organs have stopped working, you need a nurse to wash you etc. and you are in constant pain. A relative of mine passed away recently and his last year was bad. He pretty much lost all control of his bodies functions. The suffering here is real. Sexual abuse, rape, war, famine, disease, and on and on ya know. Then zoom out.... birth, go through all of this stuff, die ...rinse repeat over and over. But yea some people have easy lives. They are generally happy. They enjoy their lives. Others suffer horribly and even kill themselves because they can't handle the suffering and pain anymore. So one person, based on their current situation says, well life is good why not want to come back? and another based on their life situation, kills themselves because of the emotional or physical pain and suffering.

Really I think to a very old advanced soul, earth doesn't offer much anymore. Also, we are leaving out one very important factor. Now this is off in the realm of belief, but I think it is true. There is a source, or god, or intelligence and consciousness that is far beyond what we are. We are connected to this. Now how aware of this thing we are, how much we perceive it, how much we experience it, is determined by our nature and where we are. In a human body. contact is limited. Outside the human body, contact is increased. As we purify ourselves, contact and experience with this source is increased. Really it is the ultimate "pleasure" and experience and when you have tasted that, earths pleasures become meaningless. It is far beyond what you can imagine.