Bodhidharma's Definition of Zen

[RyanWind]

Four Sacred Verses of Bodhidharma (Daruma no Shiseiku 達磨四聖句)

#1. 教外別傳 Kyõge betsuden - A special insight into one's nature not dependent on the scriptures or practices;

Insight is seeing or realizing something about yourself that you didn't notice or weren't aware of before. It can involve ending an identification with thought or a new way of being. Scriptures or practices can help to lead to an insight, but insights into the self can be had by anyone on any path. Also, there is no guarantee a person will have insights no matter what they do or don't do.

#2. 不立文字 Furyû monji - No dependence upon words and letters;

Mindfulness is being in the moment without identifying with conceptual thought as the self. So words, sentences, are non-phenomenal background to the perceiver.

#3. 直指人心 Jikishi ninshin - Direct pointing at the non-conceptual or actual;

You don't have to think about that, you just perceive it as it is. As it is without the mind. The mind too can be observed without opinion.

#4. 見性成佛 Kenshõ jõbutsu - Seeing into one's nature and the attainment of enlightenment.

This would be the goal, but goals require the conceptual. They involve time and names and words. So attaining enlightenment is attaining a mind that just is, humble and empty. Seeking nothing. Enlightenment is what you were before you were.

[sky]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

Four Sacred Verses of Bodhidharma (Daruma no Shiseiku 達磨四聖句)

#1. 教外別傳 Kyõge betsuden - A special insight into one's nature not dependent on the scriptures or practices;

Insight is seeing or realizing something about yourself that you didn't notice or weren't aware of before. It can involve ending an identification with thought or a new way of being. Scriptures or practices can help to lead to an insight, but insights into the self can be had by anyone on any path. Also, there is no guarantee a person will have insights no matter what they do or don't do.

#2. 不立文字 Furyû monji - No dependence upon words and letters;

Mindfulness is being in the moment without identifying with conceptual thought as the self. So words, sentences, are non-phenomenal background to the perceiver.

#3. 直指人心 Jikishi ninshin - Direct pointing at the non-conceptual or actual;

You don't have to think about that, you just perceive it as it is. As it is without the mind. The mind too can be observed without opinion.

#4. 見性成佛 Kenshõ jõbutsu - Seeing into one's nature and the attainment of enlightenment.

This would be the goal, but goals require the conceptual. They involve time and names and words. So attaining enlightenment is attaining a mind that just is, humble and empty. Seeking nothing. Enlightenment is what you were before you were.

'Enlightenment is what you were before you were' words that say it all..
Sometimes it seems a veil has been lifted and you get glimpses into the true nature of reality then the veil drops again and your back to the same place.
Mybe that's the way it's surposed to be, little tasters

Interesting post Ryan, thanks.

[kingfisher]

Bodhidharma, he was the guy who stared at a wall for seven years ( or was it nine? )

When he met the emperor of China and was asked "who is this who stands before me?" he answered "I don't know" ( which is, I suppose, the insight gained from gazing at walls ) Another version has Bodhidharma answering:- " A bag of bones with nothing holy in it", which - seriously - I love.

Again, when the emperor told Bodhidharma of all of his works of good and asked just what merit he had gained, the noble sage told him "none at all". Which is good to hear, although I presume the emperor was none too pleased!

Anyway, I assume you have all heard these stories. But always good to hear them again, and reflect upon their meaning.

[jonesboy]

Interesting version and I would love to see a link to where you got that.

Here is the more standard interpretation.

Four Sacred Verses of Bodhidharma
(T2008.360a24-360c12 & 2008.364c9-364c24)

達磨四聖句 dámó sì shèng jù [Daruma no Shiseiku]

教外別傳 jiào wài bié zhuàn [Kyōge betsuden]
不立文字 bú lì wén zì [Furyū monji]
直指人心 zhí zhĭ rén xīn [Jikishi ninshin]
見性成佛 jiàn xìng chéng fó [Kenshō jōbutsu]


A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence upon words and letters;
Direct pointing at the soul of man;
Seeing into one's nature and the attainment of Buddhahood.

Translated by D. T. Suzuki


A special [separate] transmission outside the teachings,
do not depend on written words,
directly point to the human mind,
see one‘s nature and become Buddha.

Translated by Piya Tan


Separate transmission outside the teachings (mind to mind transmission),
not posit the letters,
direct to the mind,
penetrate the self-nature and attain the Buddhahood.

Translated by Sing Song Liu 劉興松

No postulation of any thesis in words---
Transmission outside the scriptures---
Point straight at the mind of man---
See your nature and be enlightened.

Translated by Whalen Lai

http://terebess.hu/zen/bodhidharma-eng.html

[jonesboy]

Remember Zen is about the transmission one receives from the guru, a direct pointing to ones true nature.

Dzogchen is much the same way.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Remember Zen is about the transmission one receives from the guru, a direct pointing to ones true nature.

Dzogchen is much the same way.

A guru can never point to anothers true nature

" Atta dipa " might help you understand

[jonesboy]

Atta dipa means you are a light unto yourself. Take refuge in your true nature. It does not mean one can't be helped along the way.

People are helped all the time in spirituality.

"To find a Buddha, all you have to do is see your nature. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who's free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don't see your nature and run around all day looking somewhere else, you'll never find a Buddha. The truth is, there's nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand..."

Bodidharma

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Atta dipa means you are a light unto yourself. Take refuge in your true nature. It does not mean one can't be helped along the way.

People are helped all the time in spirituality.

Some need help, others don't.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Some need help, others don't.

Only a Buddha doesn't need help.

For everyone else there is a difference between needing and wanting.

[Jyotir]

Hi sky123,

Originally Posted by sky123

A guru can never point to anothers true nature

Unfortunately, that statement is patently untrue*, both in principle and in demonstrated historical fact the world over in every tradition.

That is precisely what the guru does.

both in the symbolic pointing AND in the real facilitating (often occultly)

And, it is true because....

" Atta dipa " is precisely what the (real) guru actually IS -

- not simply as the premise of your suggestion implies: disposable, incidental, ineffective, irrelevant, or detrimental.

What "might help you understand " .... is a contemplation of what actually constitutes that "light within".

It's not a bulb in a clay jar in the cellar.

* regardless of your own (or anyone's) specific personal needs which of course
is a personal determination, an independent issue
apart from the general viability of the general principle.
Two different things.

~ J