Spirit animal changes?

[Fawkes]

Hello everyone,

if you've seen my thread in the Welcome section you already know, but I don't think everyone took a look in there: I have a problem - or rather not a problem, but I don't quite know how to handle the situation and, therefore, I'd love to have a bit of advice or just some more opinions.

But first things first - the background: I'm a pagan who believes in all pagan religions, but the pantheon I worship the most are the Norse gods. Now, for the following statement I was rudely rebuked in another forum, so just as a disclaimer - I, unfortunately, am not in a position to travel to Scandinavia, resurrect a viking, and ask them how they practised their religion; so what I'm about to tell you is what I have learned from other pagans. If you're a pagan as well and you disagree, I would love to hear your views on this, but this is not supposed to be the main topic, it's just a short explanation for those of you who are not familiar with it.
Well then, our spirit animals are the so-called Fylgjur - Flygja would be the singular form - and we see it at the latest when we die, because it will accompany us on our journey to the world of the dead. Same with the Hamingja which is the kin animal, thus we have each an own spirit animal and a spirit animal which stands for the whole family - but this is rather about my personal spirit animal.
Usually, you have the same Fylgja your whole life which, if you're lucky, will show itself in the course of your life.
And as usual: You don't choose the Fylgja, the Fylgja chooses you.
I have also heard about people who had more than one Fylgja, for whichever reasons.

With me, it was as follows: My Fylgja had already found me. A frog. I had - broadly speaking - dreamed of it and waking up, something inside me had clicked and I somehow had known that this was my Flygja. I then had discussed the whole thing in a forum which was especially for people worshipping the Norse gods (we call the religion Asatru or Germanic/Norse paganism, I don't know how you call it, somebody enlighten me, please ) and a few people had had similar dreams and knew afterwards that they had found their Fylgja. So far, so good. If I'm not mistaken, it has been like that for about two years - until a few days ago. Then, my Fylgja changed. I think.
And now I'm confused because that usually doesn't happen in my religion. That's why I think that I'm probably just persuading myself - but my little story continues.

I think my knew Fylgja is a heron - a Grey heron, to be precise. But I never felt some kind of bond between me and herons, I mean, where I live they can be found at every corner. Just like ravens, to which I actually feel a bond, but then again, they are a sacred symbol of the Norse paganism and of Apollo - my personal "favourite" Olympian, but that's a different story altogether.
Of course I do now feel a bond between me and the heron. It had been the same with the frog after having the dream. There's even still a minimum of a bond between me and the frog, but probably because I'm not yet ready to completely let it go.
Anyway, what was even more confusing with the heron was, that there wasn't a dream anymore - I found it completely randomly. And it may sound a bit odd now, but with the heron, it clicked while I was reading a poem which wasn't even about a heron - it was only mentioned in one line which isn't even particularly nice: "He killed my heron off Lambeth Pier." (The poem is The River's Tale by Rudyard Kipling.)
Although it might not even be that far-fetched with the poem - speaking of Apollo, right? But, by all means, I'm not claiming that it was Apollo's idea to stick an oar into the considerably pagan waters of my spirit animal. I don't even know if there are spirit animals in hellenism since I haven't really engaged myself in it yet.

Anyway, in the beginning, I didn't even really notice that something had clicked at all. There was something, yes. I have read the poem multiple times per day (and I still am), just because I liked it, and there had always been something when I had read that particular line. And two days ago I suddenly had a brainwave: What if that is my Fylgja? Boom! That was the actual click. And I've been confused ever since.
First, I thought I might just have two Fylgjur - which is apparently possible. But it felt completely wrong thinking about it like that. Then I thought one might be the Hamingja and one the Fylgja. Felt wrong as well. What felt right, however, was a picture before my mind's eye: a heron impaling a frog. And that was neither a vision nor a dream nor anything like that. Only a thought. Not a nice one indeed, but it was there and it felt right.

And my interpretation was eventually as follows: (I'm still confused and uncertain about all that, but it would at least theoretically make sense.)
In general, frogs are a symbol for love, fertility, wealth - but apparently, they are also a symbol for change, transformation, etc. And although I hadn't known it by the time I had dreamed about the frog, I had been a person who pretended to be someone they weren't, and a person who didn't know that they were someone else than they seemed to be.
And slowly but steady, I have become the person I really am, my true self. I have stopped wanting to be someone I just wasn't or couldn't be. And it's not like I have, in a manipulative way, pretended to be somebody else - I couldn't accept who I am and just didn't want to be that person. But I have learned. And until recently, I still hadn't fully accepted who I am - and then, I finally managed to fully embrace that that's the way I am, that I needn't pretend to be someone I am not, and that anyone who doesn't like that can bugger off, and - tadaa! - that heron pops up.
What I'm thinking now is that the frog stood for the tranformation I had still been in - and I had already been 19 years old when I had dreamed of it, so don't tell me about puberty.
And then I actually looked up what the heron as a symbol stands for and I thought: Who the blazes stalked me there and wrote a profile on me (with a nice lovely picture of a heron at the top)? No, but all kidding aside. It really completely fit my character traits.

I don't know. I sort of solved this problem on my own, didn't I? But I think I just need some acknowledgement. Or someone who says: That's entirely not possible and you should urgently do something about that chip on your shoulder.

Anyway, thank you so much if you have read all of that and I'm sorry for any grammatical errors, English is not my native language.

[GlowWorm]

Ah well it depends on one's beliefs as there are various concepts.

But the general web belief is that the Fylgja is the reflection of one's true self or inner self. The Hamingja, the symbol of your luck.

It would seem likely the frog is, as you may have already assumed, your Hamingja. Your Fylgja is your heron.

[Fawkes]

Thanks for your answer.

Well, that would be a really easy answer for what I thought was a big problem. But the easier, the better, right?
I would certainly have nothing against the frog as my Hamingja since it has been with me for two years now, but, as I said, it feels kind of strange thinking about it like that.
As for the Hamingja as a symbol of luck: could you explain a little further? That theory is new to me, I have only heard about the Hamingja as the family animal so far.

[GlowWorm]

The meanings vary from area to area. Icelanders may view it one way, Swedes another, Germans another.

But basic general description is.

Fylgja means to follow mostly but some use it interchangeably with the hamingja which others say is the power source of the fylgja.


The Hamingja is oftentimes seen as yourself actually. Then it is viewed as the power source to the fylgja & your luck. If seen as something else [an animal] then it becomes a pseudo fylgja or a lesser guardian.


Hamingja are seen as luck or fortune. But not quite luck as in lucky you're winning the lotto.

Luck as that inherited through your lineage. Your ancestors. Like how someone is born strong like a bear then his ancestors were likely physically strong.

Hmm... let's just say "luck" to the norse wasn't luck as understood today... This is pretty basic but let's you have two families. One family has a father who died in the glory of battle. The other family the father was cowering at the bottom of the longboats with his tail between his legs. Family A would possess a strong Hamingja. Family B on the other hand a weak Hamingja.



So, in a basic sense, if the Hamingja presents itself as a mirror to you than it has been passed down the lineage as the "luck" of your family. If the Hamingja presents itself as something different [animal] then it is the family guardian.

[Fawkes]

Okay, that makes absolutely sense to me - thanks for explaining.

So, when you say the Hamingja is oneself, you don't mean that I see it as something like a copy of myself, but that I am the Hamingja, right? (Because I am also my own source of "luck", aren't I? Even if it is inherited.)
Then the frog is theoretically my family's Hamingja as a guardian? (Would the traits or the symbolism of the frog also be of meaning or does the Hamingja rather randomly choose any kind of form it pleases and then show itself in it. Because in its animal form it's the guardian, not the luck, right?)
Then the heron is my Fylgja which took the Hamingja as a source to develop itself (if you could say it like that)?

Did I get it right?

[GlowWorm]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Okay, that makes absolutely sense to me - thanks for explaining.

You are welcome.

I am probably getting this a tad rounded though. Like I said the impression varies per region. And though I may know more than the average person having an old Germanic family on mom's side I wouldn't call myself an expert.

I am going to try and clarify a bit more.

First the fylgja. The fylgja is part of your soul. But it isn't the only part. Depending on where you are or believe one has four to six parts.

The fylgja is the inner "beast" if you would. That which is and isn't readily revealed to the outside world.

For example the office manager might be stealing other people's lunches - a pig fylgja. Not a rat because the pig represents glutton. But a pig totem also represents good luck, fortune and moneys [that good job they have].



My fylgja, as per the norse, presented itself when I was 17. In a vivid dream so detailed and potent that it burnt into the brain / soul and I can remember the entire event as if it happened yesterday and not over a decade ago.

It is a puma [mountain lion / cougar]. Like the cougar I am independent, solitary, and very, very observant. I know when to "make a move" to my utmost benefit. I have very good instincts for situations which is why I am such a mellow easy going individual [there's no point in jumping out of one's skin when the "danger" is all in one's head], however, cross me and you'll know it. I'll also fight tooth and nail, till the very end, for what I believe in.

Ah...

You've heard of berserkers right? Who hasn't. Those so in sync with their fylgja they became like the beast the fylgja was. Such was, as some claim, probably helped along by "magic mushrooms". But think about it. If one believes with their very soul that they are not man but bear, not man but wolf, why would they fight with the mind of a man who knows mercy and morals. You'd indeed fight like a "wild beast". Such mentality, magic mushroom amplified or not, would have terrified enemies.

Originally Posted by Fawkes

So, when you say the Hamingja is oneself, you don't mean that I see it as something like a copy of myself, but that I am the Hamingja, right? (Because I am also my own source of "luck", aren't I? Even if it is inherited.)

Some view the Hamingja as the "man" and the fylgja as the "beast". Two souls, one body.

This is why the Hamingja as said is sometimes used akin to the fylgja. They are both parts of what makes you.


Hmm... think of a diamond. Multi-faceted right? There's not just one face every looking "forwards". That is the Hamingja in a way. It absorbs all that your family has done & "rebounds" it down the generations. Your luck depends upon the actions of your family.

You are and you aren't the Hamingja. The Hamingja will be passed down regardless. You see a frog for example. Your children, depending on how your life is led, in due time if they see a Hamingja might see something else.

They might see themselves. Seeing one's self to some is more a "restart" in a way. The prior Hamingja is weaker than yourself in a way. You've heard of the saying "setting one's one destiny" well seeing yourself as the Hamingja is you are setting the cycle off again.


For the frog Hamingja that shows evolution, change. Frogs from tadpole to frog are constantly evolving. Adaption. However, frogs are also very sensitive to their surroundings [otherwise well we'd not consider them an "indicator species"]. Something wrong happens and an entire frog colony can disappear.

Depending on how strong your Hamingja is it might mean you have the luck of being very adaptive or it could mean you come across a bump in the road that instead seems to be an Everest sized mountain [a brick wall].

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Then the frog is theoretically my family's Hamingja as a guardian? (Would the traits or the symbolism of the frog also be of meaning or does the Hamingja rather randomly choose any kind of form it pleases and then show itself in it. Because in its animal form it's the guardian, not the luck, right?)

It can and it can't be. As said depends. "Luck" isn't understood to the norse / Germanic of old as it is too.

In a way an guardian is a form of luck. If you have a favorable guardian than you will have "good luck".


I mentioned my fylgja is the puma. My Hamingja is the lynx. That's why when you said frog & heron and people not getting you ... I sort of understood.

The average person likes to think the hamingja is themselves and themselves alone. The concept of controlling one's "destiny" is far more appealing than believing that what grandpa did 50 years ago might come and bite you in the rear end. Such people probably don't like the idea of karma either.


I say my hamingja is the lynx. I have the advantage of making the association through my grandmother. My grandmother & I share many similar attributes with respect to the psychic or "supernatural".

She has true foresight, precognitive abilities. She made a prediction about her brother's death 20 years prior and despite he changed jobs three times & moves countries. I haven't quite come into this power, and may never, but when I get senses of déjà vu they aren't at every little thing that seems familiar because in all actuality I was doing the same thing last week. You'd be surprised how many actually think a repetitive task = déjà vu.

The lynx is the silent guardian, the messenger between the divine and the mortal, and the one that sees that which is hidden. This means I, like my grandmother, am gifted with considerable intuitive sensing. As one website says about those of the lynx they seek (or even see) the truth, be it hidden behind smoke & mirrors [such as governmental lies] or the soul of people they interact with.

That's why I have no time for people that are called "fair weather friends" [the sort only with you when the going is good, but vanish like smoke when the going gets tough]. I've never had such a friend, even when I was a young child I avoided such fickle / vain people like the plague. Oh I easily integrate in social gatherings, have tons of acquaintances, however, the people I call friends are those that will last a lifetime because I know them. With some maybe better than they know themselves.

For example, I look like a stuffy professional [a teacher or professor] and yet I have friends that the average person would dub "freak" [one is a pagan into body modification, he has horns] and want to be ten miles away from. Get to know Lucas, look past the tattooed skin / the horns / the fact he looks like a 6'2" scarred scarecrow, and you'd see what I saw from the start - a guy that won't hurt a fly.


That's pretty long winded, and apologize. But the easiest way to understand something, particularly new, is if someone describes it in detail.

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Then the heron is my Fylgja which took the Hamingja as a source to develop itself (if you could say it like that)?

Did I get it right?

Yes to degree.

But see I didn't experience your events yourself. I am only going off of what you've said.

I am making the assumption that the frog is your Hamingja. However, one may not know for certain until maybe years from now.

For example your Hamingja might actually be the heron. The force in which you felt the affinity might be not because it is your fylgja, but because the Hamingja or "luck" is about to change [the spearing of the frog]. It grew "stronger".

Animals sense earthquakes right? You've heard of people sometimes getting a sense of "doom".


You'll just have to wait & see really how things play out. But for some reading material on Norse as we can't revive Vikings

Mimir: Journal of North European Traditions, Volume I & II. II specifically deals with this ideology. Author Gwendolyn Taunton.

I have never read it myself, my brother has, and well it apparently cover some aspects quite well.

[coelacanth]

I am no expert on spirit animals, though I am a bit of a Norse paganism nerd (despite not practicing).

However, the first thing that stuck out to me about your post is that herons eat frogs. They spear them with their beaks before swallowing them whole.

[Rozie]

Forgive me for being not of your faith but I have experience with animal guides...The heron is very 'high' guidance. You grow and when you reach a new stage of development then your 'animal' might change as you evolve. It sounds like the heron speared the frog and there was a transformation..

If this can fit into your belief system, I would see it as a positive sign.

In my world one can have many 'animals' that serve different purposes but I understand that you have your beliefs and I wouldn't purposely suggest anything that goes against your beliefs. I am experienced in my path but I don't know all the ins and outs of your belief system.

[Fawkes]

GlowWorm, thanks very much for the thorough reply.

I'd love to know more about the soul thingy - the four to six parts, I haven't heard of that theory either.

And I can absolutely imagine that my Fylgja is the heron. All the things I have read about the heron as a symbol fit my personality.
I prefer solitude and only show social behaviour when I am with my friends (who are very few) or when I have to. And I don't want to boast, but I'm also intelligent and skilled in many different things, knowledgable in a lot of different subjects. Resourceful. Shrewd. I may do things for my own benefit, knowing that other people could be hurt in the process (but I'd never do that to the people I love; those I would protect from anything, no matter what). I am very determined and also stoic; I can get very obsessed with certain things, but remain patient - be it something that interests me or waiting for something. I will hold on to my opinion even if it is against all of the others'. (And to be frank, I also sometimes like to boast on purpose and I like to be praised.)

And yes, I've heard of the berserks. Thanks for mentioning it anyway.

And regarding the Hamingja: I am indeed sensitive to surroundings, but more on an objective level not an interpersonal level. I tend to notice things in a more detailled way than other people (or notice things that other people don't notice at all). And to be honest, I'm not very adaptive.
But the frog also seems to be a rather complicated - in my case probably - Hamingja. Or at least that's what I perceive. Whenever I look it up on a random website, the symbolism can't really be transferred on to a personality. The transformation aspect may stand for the adaptivity which you have mentioned. But the frog is also associated with magic, right?
I mean, I am in many ways very similar to my grandfather and my uncle (both from my maternal side) who have both passed away, and in some aspects as my aunt (who is on my maternal side as well), but I have no idea how their connection to something like magic is. My uncle and grandpa used to be very intelligent and both read a lot of books, but they were very pragmatic people, hence, read a lot of non-fiction books. My aunt reads a lot of novels as I do and when I was a kid (I don't know if it was because of the novels) I was laughed at and called a freak, because I openly showed that I believed in ghosts and magic and such. Subtle things, obviously, not like in Harry Potter and such (which would be too good to be true).
The rest of the family is fairly different. I'm kind of the bad seed - but don't get me wrong, we all get on extremely well, but I often notice how different I am from the others. My mum, dad, and brother are much more smiliar regarding their character. And the parts of the family that I am similiar too, well ... as I said, my uncle and grandpa have passed away, and my aunt lives farther away from us so we don't see her very often.

And another question: If my brother were pagan, too, would it be possible that he sees another animal as the Hamingja? Or that my parents would see another one?

And as you have mentioned karma now: I have heard that the Hamingja symbolises something like karma. Is that right?

Thanks for the book recommendation.

coelacanth, so, you think it has a rather negative meaning?

Rozie, no need to apologise. Thanks for your answer.

[coelacanth]

Fawkes, I don't necessarily see it as negative. It could be a message about vulnerability or opportunities for you to get hurt (herons are very patient and wait for the right instant to strike). But heron's patience and watchfulness are positive things as well, and the frog could always overcome the heron by developing its ability to be alert to danger and to act fast.