Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Hinduism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-04-2019, 05:35 PM
Honza Honza is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 10,852
  Honza's Avatar
What worries me about Hinduism.

Hinduism has taught me the importance of self respect, the truth of the Universal "I", and that I Am God.

However where it worries me is that in Hinduism there is no "you". There are no others. Everything is my own self. That worries me because I am so used to treating everyone else as their own self and as real people in their own right.

Hinduism also has no real "we are", since you are not real then "we are" cannot be either.

Finally Hinduism has no objective God who has the last say on any matter. Everything is ones OWN self in Hinduism and not an objective reality in its own right.

So I have learned that I AM. But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.
__________________

The Humility, The Pride and The Humiliation.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-04-2019, 05:59 PM
JosephineBloggs JosephineBloggs is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 1,888
  JosephineBloggs's Avatar
The True Self is part of the whole, that's a powerful thing to focus on I think. There's strength in that. Of course the ego doesn't like the idea of this and will fight for survival. Handing over the strength and power to something separate will increase the ego even more, and perpetuate these poor little me characters.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-04-2019, 06:03 PM
JosephineBloggs JosephineBloggs is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 1,888
  JosephineBloggs's Avatar
Quote:
But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.
Is this working for you?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-04-2019, 04:35 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,182
  Shivani Devi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Hinduism has taught me the importance of self respect, the truth of the Universal "I", and that I Am God.

However where it worries me is that in Hinduism there is no "you". There are no others. Everything is my own self. That worries me because I am so used to treating everyone else as their own self and as real people in their own right.

Hinduism also has no real "we are", since you are not real then "we are" cannot be either.

Finally Hinduism has no objective God who has the last say on any matter. Everything is ones OWN self in Hinduism and not an objective reality in its own right.

So I have learned that I AM. But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.
Namaste.

For a few years now, ever since you have been here; ever since I have been here; you have had problems reconciling "God" with "Self" and "Self" with "Other".

The first thing you need to realise, is that this is not a "Hindu thing" (the Divine is both transcendent AND immanent simultaneously), it is an "existential thing" and the second thing you need to realise, is that when it comes to "God", "Self" and "Other", existential angst cannot be reconciled through the cognitive process, with all of its inherent dissonance and bias.

People may say "I AM" and "You ARE", so from the position of resting in the conscious awareness of Being ("AM-ness" and "Are-ness") there is no "I" and no "you" and this is what the Buddhists mean by the term "Anatta" or no-self.

Self only exists from a point of reference in relation to "other"...be that a person, an object and/or God. When that reference is dissolved, there is nothing more than complete immersion into the experience OF Being without any thought or experience of "I AM" or "you ARE" or "that IS" or even "everything IS" because there is no "everything" and neither is there "nothing" or even "something"...Śūnyatā...Dharmakāya.

These are Tantric Buddhist principles, but they can just as easily be applied to Hinduism...there are many points at which the lines between the two become blurred... especially in Tibet.. especially when comparing Vajrayana Tantra with Kashmir Shaivism...and watching the Tibetan dance of The Dharmapalas (which puts me into a heavy trance by the way).

https://youtu.be/i2vyoinBOzE

The only way you are going to overcome this, is to start practicing meditation if you do not already and if you do, to mediate MORE.

Rid yourself of all these mental constraints and constructs which leave your mind going around in never ending circles like a dog which chases its tail....forget all of that..Just sit quietly and focus on your breath as it goes in and out...focus on "Om" or "peace" or anything significant for you.

This is the only way your questions are going to be answered.
This is the only way you are going to find inner peace and contentment.

Aum Namah Shivaya.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-04-2019, 09:24 AM
Honza Honza is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
Posts: 10,852
  Honza's Avatar
Hi Shivani,

It takes a Eastern frame of mind to understand Eastern spirituality....

I guess I could try and slip into an Eastern frame of mid by meditating. But 'enlightenment' has never been my objective.

Yes I am trying to understand Eastern concepts with rational or intuitive thinking....you say it cannot be done. Probably not.
__________________

The Humility, The Pride and The Humiliation.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-04-2019, 09:56 AM
Altair Altair is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,397
  Altair's Avatar
I agree with the point you're making, in and of itself..

I think we should recognize that there are individual dots of consciousness. Life's diversity and the creativity of the universe is marvellous and I honestly find any spiritual path looking down upon this diversity and saying ''All is One'' as offensive. It leads to very questionable and hierarchical belief systems where you could argue that suffering becomes irrelevant because one satisfied meditator simply nullifies billions of tortured people. Said belief systems can lead to solipsism. Because one is satisfied or happy the entire world is happy. One can become blind to what lies in front, obsessing over one's own little experiences, stuck in the bubble, and projecting this upon everyone else. Solipsism is a real obstacle to many people on the spiritual path, forgetting the importance of kindness, nonviolence, and making the world a better place, because why even bother when you can sit on your butt..? ''I am satisfied so why bother with anything else..?'' becomes the mantra..

But this is solipsist and mostly advaita path. I didn't observe this from Hare Krishna's or other religious paths (probably in 'Hinduism' too). Diversity is the story we write collectively in the universe and it's not 'bad' just because it is impermanent, so I do not share this existential dread that many Dharmic followers have about existence. There seems to be no celebration of Creation. They accepted those beliefs, so it is theirs to deal with..

But as always.. ''Hinduism'' is a collection of so many things, we can't lump it all together..

But I can see where you're coming from..

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-04-2019, 10:37 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,182
  Shivani Devi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Hi Shivani,

It takes a Eastern frame of mind to understand Eastern spirituality....

I guess I could try and slip into an Eastern frame of mind by meditating. But 'enlightenment' has never been my objective.

Yes I am trying to understand Eastern concepts with rational or intuitive thinking....you say it cannot be done. Probably not.
This is so...it just cannot be done.

Hinduism is more than just dry philosophy...of trying to understand the concepts therein through rationality, even though rationality is the basis of Hinduism.

It takes a "heart knowledge" or an experiential feeling, which ONLY a Hindu can understand and therefore, you have nothing to worry about Hinduism or the precepts therein if you are not a Hindu...and if you are, you will understand what I am saying and where I am coming from.

What you have been asking for years, you pretty much NEED to be 'enlightened' to understand it through experience that also goes beyond intellect...straight into the heart space...it becomes like liquid light flowing through the veins.

So yes, you pretty much need to "live Hinduism" to understand the relationship between Self and God as far as the Hindu religion is concerned.

Aum Namah Shivaya
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-04-2019, 11:30 AM
JosephineBloggs JosephineBloggs is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 1,888
  JosephineBloggs's Avatar
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Shivani Devi, here and in your other posts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22-04-2019, 12:45 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,182
  Shivani Devi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Shivani Devi, here and in your other posts.
Namaste and thank you for saying that.
It is an honour and privilege to be given the opportunity to do this.

Aum Namah Shivaya
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22-04-2019, 01:25 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: India
Posts: 3,249
  Unseeking Seeker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Namaste.

For a few years now, ever since you have been here; ever since I have been here; you have had problems reconciling "God" with "Self" and "Self" with "Other".

The first thing you need to realise, is that this is not a "Hindu thing" (the Divine is both transcendent AND immanent simultaneously), it is an "existential thing" and the second thing you need to realise, is that when it comes to "God", "Self" and "Other", existential angst cannot be reconciled through the cognitive process, with all of its inherent dissonance and bias.

People may say "I AM" and "You ARE", so from the position of resting in the conscious awareness of Being ("AM-ness" and "Are-ness") there is no "I" and no "you" and this is what the Buddhists mean by the term "Anatta" or no-self.

Self only exists from a point of reference in relation to "other"...be that a person, an object and/or God. When that reference is dissolved, there is nothing more than complete immersion into the experience OF Being without any thought or experience of "I AM" or "you ARE" or "that IS" or even "everything IS" because there is no "everything" and neither is there "nothing" or even "something"...Śūnyatā...Dharmakāya.

These are Tantric Buddhist principles, but they can just as easily be applied to Hinduism...there are many points at which the lines between the two become blurred... especially in Tibet.. especially when comparing Vajrayana Tantra with Kashmir Shaivism...and watching the Tibetan dance of The Dharmapalas (which puts me into a heavy trance by the way).

https://youtu.be/i2vyoinBOzE

The only way you are going to overcome this, is to start practicing meditation if you do not already and if you do, to mediate MORE.

Rid yourself of all these mental constraints and constructs which leave your mind going around in never ending circles like a dog which chases its tail....forget all of that..Just sit quietly and focus on your breath as it goes in and out...focus on "Om" or "peace" or anything significant for you.

This is the only way your questions are going to be answered.
This is the only way you are going to find inner peace and contentment.

Aum Namah Shivaya.

***

Wow!

***
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums