A slight miscalculation by cweiters in using a button or two seems to have deleted the “Laws of Universe” thread. When I asked cweiters about it - - he explained what had happened. I told him I had close to the entire thread offline - - and asked him if he wanted me to post it again. He affirmed that offer,
When I take such threads offline - - I clean all the html / and extra text such as signatures and such out of the thread. All I have left is the post itself and who posted it.
I apologize for not knowing vb code and such enough to make the links clickable / etc. Took me a while to figure out how to even make things bold / italic / underlined / etc. ( HeH )
Anyway - - here is the thread - - as much as I had. If I missed some posts - - I apologize.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
The Laws of Universe
imageimaginer
The Laws of Universe
Hi, I have just finished watching the inspirational movie/documentary, the secret and think it is so amazing. But I have a question, if the Law of Attraction is but one of laws of the universe then what are the others?
I know there is another called the Law of Cause and Effect but are there any others?
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
deltawaves
Wink
Hi Imageimaginer,
Try out this link I just foudn on the net for an overview of universal spiritual laws :>
http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles...awsof3D_uk.htm
In Love
Elizabeth
www.deltawaves.com.au
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
kundalini
Thank you very much for posting the link to that article, deltawaves. It was very interesting.
Kundalini.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
imageimaginer
Wow, I did not think there were so many. Thank you Elizabeth.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
TzuJanLi
Greetings..
It is my experience that there is only one certain LAW.. and that is CHANGE.. the "laws" listed in the link referenced above are a conglomerate of "new-age" conjurings.. it is unwise to set so many conditions that confine one's experiences of life.. I suppose i should ask the question of what does the term "Law" mean.. is it immutable? is there an adjudicating system? what are the "penalties?
We take ownership of what we believe.. if you believe these "laws" they will control your experiences of living.. if not, YOU will control your experiences, which is to say that "laws", whatever that may mean, are self-evident, not decreed.. i.e.: #17 "The Law or Right to Decree", is a ritualistic approach to a much simpler "principle".. consider the notion of, "In order for your decree to work it must be invoked three times. An Example - "By Divine Decree, in the name of (Yahweh, God, Jesus, Ascend Masters, healing Angels, Mother Mary, My I AM self, etc.) and under the Law of Grace".. what is the significance of invoking such ambiguious wordage 3 times? what is believed is so, and by believed i mean "known".. "ask, believing, and it is already done".. no contrived incantations.. do not mistake the notions of man for the ways of the universe, the universe is much more simple than the listing of "Laws" suggests..
This is what i "know" by experience: ALL things CHANGE.. and, unless i relinquish my authority, i am the author of CHANGE.. i exist as a result of, and endowed with, the "Free-will" to create myself as i choose.. That i am not this aging body, i am the eternal energy that animates it.. i am only one of a Universe of expressions of The One Unified Whole.. From which, The One Unified Whole issues only One "decree".. "Go ye therefore into the cosmos, and experience.. experience "ME, through THEE".. The rest, is up to us..
Now, this is only my experience and not intended to influence others.. i simply can't accept that the Universe is so complex and contrived as set so many conditions or "laws".. it just seems much more simple than that..
Be well..
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
imageimaginer
The laws of the universe Tzujanli are God's laws. They are not in the sense human laws whereby if you break one you will be punished. The laws of god cannot be broken and you cannot be punished. You cannot live outside the laws because we are living them right now, they are just what is and is how the universe really works. Why they are called laws is unbeknowest to me but yes it is a human term probably used only give a sense of power and authority.
You are right though in saying that life should not be about rules or conditions. The laws written in that link really are just too broad and can be simplified a lot. I like what you said about change though and I think that evolution could just be another law.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
TzuJanLi
Greetings..
"Laws" confine experience. For the Singularity referred to as "God" to experience itself fully and completely, it simply sets creation in motion and watches as it unfolds naturally, without intervention or imposed limits.. like the surface of a pond might represent the infinite field of possibilities and creation is the ripple of "God's" pebble, where the ripple of creation intersects possibilities reality is manifested.. Creation is the ongoing process of NOW.. Now moves through the void, possibility ahead, history behind.. "Laws", as we perceive them, are merely the "stage" set for physical experiences.. we, as individual units of self-aware, cohesive and conscious energy, write the script.. and, there are no censors.. Because we exist, partially, in the physical expression of "God", we have a tendency to believe that the conditions necessary for physical existence ("Laws" as some might say) apply to other manifestations, like spiritual or manifestations beyond the scope of our physical perceptions..
Too often, we express the gifts of the universe in terms that apply to the limited physical manifestation, as if the cosmos is some contrived experiment.. it is not, it is the infinite and eternal field of potential.. "God" simply nudged it and the rest is the ongoing process of Creation.. as we tire of the physical play we are free to abandon the conditions used to manifest physical existence, to create ourselves in a "universe" of possibilities.. or, we will assume there are "laws" that govern our free-will and abandon our inherent link to the Creator, puppets on the strings of "Law"..
Consider that if the Singularity, the One Unified Whole ("God", without the religious baggage) truly wants to know itself, why then, would it confine its "parts" (Life) to particular rules? Insight is to recognize that we are equally "Light and Dark".. enlightenment is to live it.. "God", in its quest for self-understanding, is wise enough to accept ALL versions of itself without confining its "parts" to preferred experiences.. and, THAT is our gift, true free-will..
Be Well..
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
dreamer
Hey TzuJanLi,
great post, you have a gift for explaining the hard to explain and i always enjoy your posts.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
TzuJanLi
Greetings..
Humble thanks, Dreamer.. i am learning, late in life, to let my heart express itself freely.. it is most liberating!
Be well..
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
dreamer
Better late than never, although never say never, which makes late perfect timing I find!!
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
imageimaginer
Excellent Tzujanli, you are right.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
deltawaves
Hey TzuJanli,
Thanks for your response. That link I found was just after a quick look on the net to try and help out a look at laws. I personally agree that if we lived by all those laws our head woud be done in. So we seek info and then make our own decisions based on what our gut says. Thanks for helping out too ;>
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
Glorymist
Interesting how many are again back to anything - - whatever it might be - - "confines" experience. It would be of interest to anyone that - - whether certain "rules" or "Laws" are labeled as such - - or are labeled as unnecessary / confining / separating / etc. - - one still lives by them - - whether they like it or not.
In these worlds of duality / polarity / opposites - - there is a Law of Cause and Effect. One can label it anything they wish - - or totally dismiss it. They will still contend with and live by it. Another - - that of the Law of Reincarnation. One can disbelieve all they wish. On it goes.
Why does God "confine" IT's part to particular rules ??
Why was this whole system set up in the first place ! ! Where IS there this - - "school room" of these lower worlds ?? And somehow - - I do not believe that the Core / Center / Fountainhead / God would consider a "confinement" of anything.
If there is always change - - then one walks the Path of the Lower Worlds. That means - - it is always this or that - - good or bad - - right or wrong - - separate or unified - - light or dark - - etc.
God IT-self has no "preferred" experiences. That is up to us as individual Soul. And Soul - - of Itself - - is NOT - - light and dark. There is no duality of and to Soul - - no matter how one wishes to revise the involved concepts.
As far as laws are concerned - - please dismiss all laws when approaching a red light in an automobile.
The Laws that govern and "define" (lousy word but it carries the concept) the various levels of vibration within ALL of LIFE-IT-self - - are no less tangible / meaningful / worthy to consider and learn to live by.
Here's an interesting thought. The Path can sometimes be defined (there's that lousy word again. Roll with it please) as being set up to teach us these very Laws of Life and to live by them. To and for someone who wishes to dismiss Laws - - you can see how powerful mind really is.
However - - there is absolutely / unquestionably NO right or wrong as Soul gains discernment thru the experiences of Life. One walks their own Path as they understand it to be - - until it needs to be revised - - in whatever way that is - - whether it takes a week / a month / a year / a decade / a century / or an eon.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
dreamer
Love is the law.... (or at least the easiest one to remember/forget)
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
Glorymist
dreamer - - a lot can be said for that. But since few really know what love is beyond the human understanding / conception of it - - following that "law" may not be of much help - - tho without a doubt - - it is most worthy to follow even if one doesn't totally "understand" it. The entire "What is Love" thread gives insight to all of this.
All in all - - one will eventually learn that love is a means to an end - - and not the total end in and of itself. Much of our understanding of what love is and is not continues to believe in a God that feels love for us just as we supposedly feel love for our fellow man. There are a goodly number of heavy principles / assumptions / and assessments to lay to rest before one can really accept they have this one figured out.
Another consideration - - there is an old saying - - "Love without power produces the weakling. Power without love produces the brute." The implications of this one can set many peoiple off into a tangent / tizzy.
Not only do the two interact - - but there is the third aspect between the two - - the "middle path" aspect - - that can speak quite loudly in one's overall understanding of the Path itself.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
TzuJanLi
Greetings..
Quote: one still lives by them - - whether they like it or not.
Well, that is "your" perspective.. i humbly suggest that you not impose your choices on others.. some choose to live spontaneously, regarding "laws" as evidence of the limitations others "choose".. some people need structure, others don't..
Quote: As far as laws are concerned - - please dismiss all laws when approaching a red light in an automobile.
LOL, "laws" describe social understandings of consequences.. it is the consequences that "govern", not the "laws".. society is the best evidence of that.. I do dismiss "laws", but never consequences... i evaluate consequences relative to the situation at hand, and act accordingly.. i do not let "laws" deprive me of the basic right to choose my own existence.. i may receive desirable or undesirable consequences, but "law" is not the determining factor, my "choices" are..
Quote: There is no duality of and to Soul - - no matter how one wishes to revise the involved concepts.
This is representative of a general misconception of duality.. by reference to duality, it exists.. by reference to soul, it exists in duality.. this is not a revision of concepts, it is the way things are.. things are what they are.. concepts, by definition are fluid and changing.. Soul is a term expressing relativity to another manifestation of the Unified Whole, another aspect.. in duality..
Quote: If there is always change - - then one walks the Path of the Lower Worlds. That means - - it is always this or that - - good or bad - - right or wrong - - separate or unified - - light or dark - - etc.
If/then... except, in someone else's reality there are no "lower worlds".. there is only a universe of expressions of the Unified Whole.. how easy it is to assume that our individual experiences are suited for everyone..
Quote: However - - there is absolutely / unquestionably NO right or wrong as Soul gains discernment thru the experiences of Life. One walks their own Path as they understand it to be - - until it needs to be revised - - in whatever way that is - - whether it takes a week / a month / a year / a decade / a century / or an eon.
Here, we largely agree.. i'm not so sure about my experience with the soul gaining "discernment".. i sense it as more like the soul acquires a "charge", like electricity.. pos/neg.. which determines the natural progression of future experiences.. but, i think that if we were to sit and chat a while, we find ourselves at a happy common ground, language has its limitations..
Be well...
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
Glorymist
Tsu - - my first inclination was to clarify and discuss - - as is the nature of interaction on a forum discussion board. But after reading thru your post a second time - - I halted at your statement about my “imposing” words - - and realized the folly of any further discussion.
Our two differing viewpoints would never allow our coming together on even just the semantics - - let alone the meaning behind the stated concepts and principles. There could be no broadening of perspective or resultant growth.
My words are always proposed as simple considerations. It takes a certain viewpoint to both read what I say with such simplicity and / or not get offended. When there is “imposition” read into my words where there was none - - it quickly becomes clear that further interaction is unnecessary. Such claims betray a viewpoint that I do not wish to deal with.
I am most certainly not angry and took no real offense. This is simply due to the recognition of the vast difference between our two viewpoints and our perceptions of what LIFE is and is not.
I do admit what I often submit is in direct opposition to the popular movements and beliefs of the day. Some people can simply discuss that. Others cannot - - without resorting to judgments and misinterpretation. My posts are not for all - - and I do not pretend them to be.
I could never present much of anything that I would feel you would assess correctly - - or even simply take it in the way it was offered. Once statements of “imposition” are claimed - - subsequent statements of inferred accusations / judgments / and misinterpretations are not far behind. I do not wish to subject either one of us to that. And by my making such a statement - - I am *not* suggesting that you are right or wrong / good or bad / or any other possible judgment one could come up with. There is no judgment here.
Therefore - - I simply drop back to the stance I put forth in my Dimensions thread. You have done your homework well ! ! You are to be commended for that. I mean that sincerely. You have a strong stance that should carry you for many, many lifetimes. You have spent a lot of time and effort arranging the various pieces into a picture that works for you. It will be many more lifetimes before you begin to revise - - and this conversation we are having right now will be long distant and forgotten.
Therefore - - I humbly acknowledge your strong position in life - - with appreciation and respect. And with this - - I back out of any further interaction with you. I truly wish you well.
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
TzuJanLi
Greetings..
Glorymist: First, a humble apology for my choice of words.. while your statements have a certain finality to them, as though they are unchangable and omni-applicable.. they impose nothing, they are simply your perspectives.. imposition was a product of my own insecurity..
Quote: Tsu - - my first inclination was to clarify and discuss - - as is the nature of interaction on a forum discussion board. But after reading thru your post a second time - - I halted at your statement about my “imposing” words - - and realized the folly of any further discussion.
Similarly, i hope that your use of the word "folly" is an emotional response, i hope we can share in the spirit of finding common ground..
Quote: Our two differing viewpoints would never allow our coming together on even just the semantics - - let alone the meaning behind the stated concepts and principles. There could be no broadening of perspective or resultant growth.
As i suggest to my students, closing doors is not a meaningful approach to understanding.. as in the thread about Dimensions, i originally couldn't understand dimensions, but.. as i ponder the discussions, i see how that notion works for some people.. in fact, i think it is just a different description of similar concepts..
Quote: My words are always proposed as simple considerations. It takes a certain viewpoint to both read what I say with such simplicity and / or not get offended. When there is “imposition” read into my words where there was none - - it quickly becomes clear that further interaction is unnecessary. Such claims betray a viewpoint that I do not wish to deal with.
I will list a couple of your statements and ask you to consider how these statements appear to you.. one is advised to consider that the intention behind a statement is not evident in written communications..
"one still lives by them - - whether they like it or not."
"There is no duality of and to Soul - - no matter how one wishes to revise the involved concepts."
These statements have the appearance of immutable proclamations.. they conclude with assertions that the observer has no influence in the result.. This position is contrary to my core understandings of existence.. i had hoped to engage you in dialogue that could help us find a way to communicate without immutable proclamations.. now, to be fair, i also make statements that appear to have some finality associated with them, but.. i do not deny an observer's right to their own creation.. my statements assert "my" beliefs, and i may argue against the beliefs of others, but.. i understand that ALL perspectives are subject to "Change", mine included.. we can only opine on the evidence currently available, new or revised evidence might compell me or others to revise our perceptions..
I had no intention of alienating you as a valid contributor to my expanding awareness, and.. if i have it is MY loss.. I tend to be direct, expressive and passionate about such topics as important as these.. i tend to poke at people a bit, stir them into exposing the basis of their beliefs.. and, if their basis has more merit than mine, i revise my position.. i have no need to dominate or have my beliefs emerge as "truth".. i have a longing that "truth" find its way into my experience, that my expanding awareness reveal Life to me, regardless of its impact on my "beliefs"..
Quote: Therefore - - I humbly acknowledge your strong position in life - - with appreciation and respect. And with this - - I back out of any further interaction with you. I truly wish you well.
Likewise, i trust you will find your path comforting and rewarding.. i sense you are equally sincere in your pursuits.. i deeply regret my poor choice of words that brings you to your choice to abstain from further interaction.. but, i respect your choice and will not further address your posts.. if, you have a change of heart (and i hope you do), i would be honored to continue our adventure into the mysteries the Cosmos..
Sincerely,
Bob
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
imageimaginer
Tzujanli and Glorymist, you are both very wise spiritual teachers and I am honoured as such to be learning so much from both of you, especially your differing viewpoints and beliefs. Set your egos aside and work together. You are both wrong and you are both right but how do I know? Who do I listen to? If you put your differences aside and work together you may both discover many truths which will be very beneficial to everyone on these forums, especially me. But it is up to you to decide.
Anyway back to the subject
I see the laws of the universe as the technology of the universe. Consider a giant computer programme called "the universe" and the laws being the variables or programmes that define certain aspects of it. I see god as part of this giant programme well actually as being the programme. You may even want to consider the "Matrix" series but what do you think?
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
cweiters
Duplicate Thread
I apologize imageimaginer for duplicating this thread.
Quote: see my thread cweiters, The Laws of the Universe.
I just saw your thread today, I have deleted mine. Thank you very much for asking this question I hear this term frequently these days. I agree the Secret teach the law of Attraction. I too would like to learn more of Universal Laws, although the law of Attaction and the Law of Oneness is plenty enough to practice. Thank you Deltawave, much appreciation for the link very good information to save.
Love and apology to all
cw
- - - o-o-0-o-o - - -
Glorymist
imageimaginer - - I can appreciate your viewpoint. I really can. There is a natural tendency for people to conclude that if one or two or three or whatever number of people have differing views - - that this is due to ego. As that might be the case in the majority of instances - - I have to put forth that I am not making the statements that I have to TzuJanLi from the facet of ego. It is a simple recognition that the two viewpoints do not mix - - somewhat like a hard-core metaphysician talking to a fundamental Christian. The two will never come together on much - - if anything.
This is all I mean by what I put forth to him. I am not here to banter the "why's and wherefore’s" of the Cosmic Consciousness theories. That is not where I am "coming from" and it is against spiritual law to try and nudge anyone where they do not want to go. Tzu likes where he's at. He should. It's a great place. You have yet to see me claim his views as right or wrong / good or bad - - or anything even close.
I just put out what I put out. You - - or anyone else - - can consider that as right or wrong - - or coming from ego. There's nothing I can do about that. You are welcome to your viewpioint.
Who do you listen to ?? Look inside yourself. I have said many times - - it all depends on what you want.
Just as the proverbial metaphysician would never be able to "work with" a fundamental Christian - - Tzu and I will rarely if ever agree on much. The two viewpoints just differ too much. What we both put out can assist anyone who reads the info. Without a doubt - - and I will be the very first to admit - - Tzu promotes the more popular theories of the day. So - - when in doubt - - follow the masses. At least you will have companionship along the way.
As far as what the "Laws" actually are - - the only way back to God is to come into agreement with God. You find out certain principles / postulates / Laws / Rules - - whatever you wish to call them - - you find these are necessary to lead you back to the Center. Laws are just a statement of a spiritual Truth - - or a psychic truth if one is dealing with psychic Laws.
Take for instance - - the Law of Reincarnation. Okay - - there's rebirth ! ! One can deny that it is a "law" - - but they will be re-born anyway. So - - to pick or choose to use the word "Law" to clarify the principle into a simple statement of re-birth is - - well - - odd. People can claim they do not follow laws - - but when they are born into another lifetime - - they have just taken part in it whether they like it or not.
It's that simple.
And there are a goodly number of other laws. Like - - the Law of Cause and Effect. Some people can say - - the only thing that matters is "consequences." Well - - that's effect. A rose by any other name - - etc.
But some people promote a sense of freedom in their life - - and many belief that if they adhere to NO laws - - then they are truly free. They are welcome to their viewpoint. It works for as long as it does. Again - - it's that simple. No criticism or judgment here. I am not saying either is right or wrong. It is what it is.
So actually - - so far - - you have two working "Laws" that I have mentioned. The Law of Reincarnation - - and the Law of Cause and Effect. There's two simple ones that apply to these Lower Worlds. There is no "cause and effect" in the true spiritual worlds. And - - others have stated the Law of Attraction. There's another.
If people disbelieve these laws are viable - - that is okay too. They live under them anyway. The entire system of the lower worlds is built on and around them. They can call them anything they wish. They can re-work the concepts and divide them up into twenty separate "precepts" for all I care. The laws are what they are. The principle remains. Again - - a rose by any other name smells just as sweet. Call it what you will.
Glory
.
I think we have the right to be jealous of the universe becuase it does not need to know how to operate, it simply does. I wonder what advice it would give us. It's a shame there's no beginners section, but if anyone would like to explore furture or make private comments, feel free to IM me for discussion.
Linear Mode
