Duality.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by rybo

Oh Haramein, yeah I been to his sites some years back and did watch a little of Utube once. Wish was not on dial-out but I cant really afford teh $50. a month to get a higher speed out here in the boonies.

Occsionally I go to a nearbusiness and use there access but I disliek having to leave comfort of h-om-e/w-om-b/d-om-e

Heheheh Haramein is a bit off centre ay?

Feynman is my hero though.

Yeah, there was PBS American Masters some years ago on Richard Feynman who stated this and it was first time I saw anyone on tv metnions it.

Seemingly empty space is filled with stuff. He stated in that program the pit vipers see in the infra-red spectrum and I hadn't known that before.

As for space defining matter, I agree insofar as that space is defined as gravitational spacetime membrane--- aka nodal vertexial network/web ---that intefers with itself to create all fermionic matter particles and bosonic force particles.




The so called vacuum is alledge to have virtual particles popping into and out of existence before we can directly detect them. However, some experiements indirectly infer/imply their existence.

In the geometric sense, particles both exist and don't exist... location ('Something there') and velocity (motion) are not apart, they co-exist as a ratio, which was well described in Heisenburgs uncertainty principle.

That is all well and good but fairly far removed from my concerns, at least most of the time.

Now gravity is similar in that we hav not quantised nor do I think we ever will and it is debateble whether we will ever quantify gravity with gravitons, as Lee Smolin has predicted we will do using geometry.

However, I've posted one URL for years that does give some indirect inference/implciations that gravity is indeed a bosonic-like force via some distant quasars or whatever orbiting one another.

If interested i can find URL on other computer. So gravity for me is key significant player too all of the Universe and the many mysterious if not paradoxes.

There is also a 2nd experiement that is less conclusive and never been duplicated elsewhere, that drops some particles in a vacuum tube and these particles seem to fall then pause at differrent levels before falling the next level, and the scientist doing that experiment claim that this is in some ways similar to the first experiments to infer/imply that EMRadiation does come into discreet quanta.

Maxwell Planck was the guy who wrote the proofs that quanta is discrete, and he calculated the Planck constants... which work.

In fractal geometry the function shows a relationship between the discrete and the infinitisimal and that is also necessarily true as a fundamental of geometry...

So this falling pausing falling pause to them infers/imnplies gravitonic shells sort of like electron shells where the electrons rise or fall as the gain or release a photon.

By the way Gem I have a poem that uses the name "Gem"in it title at this URL. The poem/limerick as most of mine are, was written some years ago.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36097

Rybo the Rybot

Hehehe. Nice poetry.

[r6r6]

Heheheh Haramein is a bit off centre ay?

Well his stuff also centers around the Vector Equlibrium aka OS-Jbug as does some of my stuff.

So yes, off-center, but only when we consider physical/energy/motion/dynamic/charges/oscillations/insideooutings/spin/torqing/twisting of the VE ergo a disequilbirum/disequilibrious = abberration i.e. metaphysical tainted as manifested reality.

Feynman is my hero though.

Yeah he was cool tho his beligerence got the best of him on a few occasions ex in pigs eye and then the disovered the mesons.

He did really good with the O rings on the Challenger explosion tho I'm of course a Bucky Fuller man most of the way.

In the geometric sense, particles both exist and don't exist... location ('Something there') and velocity (motion) are not apart, they co-exist as a ratio, which was well described in Heisenburgs uncertainty principle.

I feel and believe, that, ultra-micro, quasi-physical gravity holds the key to many of the mysteries and seeming paradoxes of Universe.

The biggest paradox being that the quasi-physical and physical Universe, appear to be the greatest of all metaphysical illusions.

And 2nd only that, is the illusion of humans and other biologicals having a limited free will. There is no free will limited or not i.e if we concede a quasi-physical and physical Universe, then there is only cause and effect determinsim. imho

Maxwell Planck was the guy who wrote the proofs that quanta is discrete, and he calculated the Planck constants... which work.
In fractal geometry the function shows a relationship between the discrete and the infinitisimal and that is also necessarily true as a fundamental of geometry...

Fractals--- infinite and finite ---are mathematics associated with finite geometric/patterned visuals. I do not believe there is any macro or micro infinite quasi-physical or physical Universe or part of Universe.

However, Fuller makes many differrent comments over the years, and he does infer/imply that what we may have, is macro-finite physical Universe, that is eternally subdividing itself i.e. micr-infinite, ergo, if eternally subdividing itself, then that means infinite subdivision of a finite occupied space we call Universe.

Now that is one of my 'Top Ten' most radical ideas I've ever encountered. However, I do not agree with that assessment. It took me little while to understand the implications of Loop Quantum Gravity ( lee Smolin ), and that was how there cosmolgical, finite Universe would expand to differrent diameters over time.

This also meant to me, that gravity may subdivide itself to differrent size values scales of gravitonic exsitence ergo various scales of subdivision of our finite physical Universe, however, unlike Fullers radical infinite subdivision, I think there is a single minimum limited value for a gravitonic subdivsion, that maybe varible, as LQGravitie varibilites of macro-cosmie expansion over time.


To try and clarify this above,

1) the finite Universe may varibly expand to differrent diametries over time,

2) the finite Universe may varibly subdivide itself with differrent gravitionic values,

and either of these vary, over time, because of what inter-relaionships may occur over time, may cause these two above too fluctuate/vary over time because sometimes Universe parts inter-relate at just the correct patterns to cause and increae or lesseing of those varible.

This may be related to your mention uncertainty principle above, and here is a practical example here on Earth to help explain what I'm trying to convey above.

There exist rogue killer waves, ocean waves, that we confirmed to exist and this dude created mathematic rogue killer waves on his computer using Schrodingers equations ergo uncertainty principle.

I saw the PBS program, were in some odd uncertainty of seemingly chaotic, ocean wave inter-relationships, out of nowhere these overly gigantic/huge/gargantuan waves--- 90 ft or meters? ---appear.


Ships captains have repoprted them and there are some vidieos of such. And using satelites they were able to see abput 10-20 of them occurring somewhere in the oceans of Earth at any one time.

The inter-relations cause Universe of relations to expand or subdivide to different amounts over time.

AND...ha ha yes more, it may be that the expansion is due to subdivision. I have not conceptually gone on this path very far, but perhaps fractals mathmatics make mention of such in cosmollgivcal context. Idunno

Hehehe. Nice poetry.

Simptons poetry - limericks.

Rybo the Rybot

[Xan]

How does 'one' better explain existence than 'duality'...

One is formless, unchanging, undifferentiated, whole and beyond time and space.

Duality is of forms, divided, distinguished one from the other and ever changing in space and time.

Both explain existence, depending on where you are seeing from.

The question is, which is the source and essence of the other?


Xan

[Gem]

Originally Posted by rybo

Well his stuff also centers around the Vector Equlibrium aka OS-Jbug as does some of my stuff.

So yes, off-center, but only when we consider physical/energy/motion/dynamic/charges/oscillations/insideooutings/spin/torqing/twisting of the VE ergo a disequilbirum/disequilibrious = abberration i.e. metaphysical tainted as manifested reality.



Yeah he was cool tho his beligerence got the best of him on a few occasions ex in pigs eye and then the disovered the mesons.

He did really good with the O rings on the Challenger explosion tho I'm of course a Bucky Fuller man most of the way.

Yeah, Feynman did a good job on that bomb from los alamos too.

I feel and believe, that, ultra-micro, quasi-physical gravity holds the key to many of the mysteries and seeming paradoxes of Universe.

The biggest paradox being that the quasi-physical and physical Universe, appear to be the greatest of all metaphysical illusions.

And 2nd only that, is the illusion of humans and other biologicals having a limited free will. There is no free will limited or not i.e if we concede a quasi-physical and physical Universe, then there is only cause and effect determinsim. imho

Cause and effect is again something which is observable, so there's no real question about it. It also has founding geometric principle, because it deals with the relationship between things.

The tricky bit is, instead of being focused on the 'things' look toward the between bit.

It appears that there is 'nothing between', but the relationship is between things.

Fractals--- infinite and finite ---are mathematics associated with finite geometric/patterned visuals. I do not believe there is any macro or micro infinite quasi-physical or physical Universe or part of Universe.

However, Fuller makes many differrent comments over the years, and he does infer/imply that what we may have, is macro-finite physical Universe, that is eternally subdividing itself i.e. micr-infinite, ergo, if eternally subdividing itself, then that means infinite subdivision of a finite occupied space we call Universe.

Now that is one of my 'Top Ten' most radical ideas I've ever encountered. However, I do not agree with that assessment. It took me little while to understand the implications of Loop Quantum Gravity ( lee Smolin ), and that was how there cosmolgical, finite Universe would expand to differrent diameters over time.

This also meant to me, that gravity may subdivide itself to differrent size values scales of gravitonic exsitence ergo various scales of subdivision of our finite physical Universe, however, unlike Fullers radical infinite subdivision, I think there is a single minimum limited value for a gravitonic subdivsion, that maybe varible, as LQGravitie varibilites of macro-cosmie expansion over time.


To try and clarify this above,

1) the finite Universe may varibly expand to differrent diametries over time,

2) the finite Universe may varibly subdivide itself with differrent gravitionic values,

and either of these vary, over time, because of what inter-relaionships may occur over time, may cause these two above too fluctuate/vary over time because sometimes Universe parts inter-relate at just the correct patterns to cause and increae or lesseing of those varible.

This may be related to your mention uncertainty principle above, and here is a practical example here on Earth to help explain what I'm trying to convey above.

There exist rogue killer waves, ocean waves, that we confirmed to exist and this dude created mathematic rogue killer waves on his computer using Schrodingers equations ergo uncertainty principle.

I saw the PBS program, were in some odd uncertainty of seemingly chaotic, ocean wave inter-relationships, out of nowhere these overly gigantic/huge/gargantuan waves--- 90 ft or meters? ---appear.


Ships captains have repoprted them and there are some vidieos of such. And using satelites they were able to see abput 10-20 of them occurring somewhere in the oceans of Earth at any one time.

The inter-relations cause Universe of relations to expand or subdivide to different amounts over time.

AND...ha ha yes more, it may be that the expansion is due to subdivision. I have not conceptually gone on this path very far, but perhaps fractals mathmatics make mention of such in cosmollgivcal context. Idunno



Simptons poetry - limericks.

Rybo the Rybot

Oh yeah, the waves.

There's a whole world of chaos theory... order form the chaos... that is also the basis offractal geometry too... in itself fractal geometry has a long history.

People always tried to quantify infinity, paradoxically, but at the heart of the geometry, where the mind can not define, infinity begins... so there is a common quality shared by both subjectivity and infinity...

To bring order from the chaos... Gaston Julia published his paper on the Julia set in 1900 or so... but it couldn't be made a shapeful geometry. At the time it was an obscure formula which the mind could not make form from.

The advent of supercomputers in eighties allowed thpousands, millions of calculations, and plotted them as points... and that's how we now form the shapes which Julia must've conceived.

The work was brought to the for by Beniot Mandelbrot... unfortunately... coz I relly thought Julia Gaston deserved the credit..

[r6r6]

Xan]How does 'one' better explain existence than 'duality'...
[color=Navy]One is formless, unchanging, undifferentiated, whole and beyond time and space.

Hi Xan, I think you are referencing the metaphysical, even tho you do not state as much. This is labled as "0" in my cosmic heirarchy.

In order to go any further within my cosmic heirarchy as being cosmic truths, we have to put aside, what may be the greatest cosmic truth and that is, that, all quasi-physical/gravity and physical/energy is a metaphysical illusion.

Only by putting that metaphysical aside, can we entertain the below-the-line existence of space/spacial/spatiality, in three--- "00, 01 and 02" ---fundamental forms/formats/modes-of-existence.

Duality is of forms, divided, distinguished one from the other and ever changing in space and time.

I believe you are referencing 00 and 01/02 i.e. the macro-micro infinite non-occupied space, cannot have your given spatial differrentiation as "form" above, unless we have either 01, 02 or in your simplification it would be combining 01 and 02 as single set of occupied space, which occupied space, then defines, gives form and differrrentiation, from the macro-micro infinite non-occupied space.

So in this sense, the duality is non-occupied space and occupied space, tho you do not state such. Again that is the set of { 00 - 01/02 }

Both explain existence, depending on where you are seeing from.
The question is, which is the source and essence of the other?

Both define, and partially explain spacial/spatial existence.

To ask why there is non-occupied space( 00 ) seems like a no brainer to me, even if there was no occupied space( 01-02 ).

To ask why there exist quasi-physical/gravity and physical/energy should also be a no brainer, in-so-far as, we would not exist to access the metaphysical, above the line and all associated concepts thereof.

All is a truly great illusion ergo differrentiation is included in the word ALL ergo differrentiation is truly great illusion.

Relative truths are part of the truly great illusion.

Absolute truths exist only in the metaphysical and eternally complement the quasi-physical/gravity and the physical/energy.

The moral of the cosmic story, is there there is no essential beginning or source of ALL.


physical/energy cannot be created nor destroyed and at worst it can only become only gravitational spacetime( 01 ) every once and awhile in eternal existence of ALL.

This may be the case for bioloigical life and in this following scenario, it is found in my 'Top Ten' most radical ideas out there.

We have no direct evidence of biological life coming into existence from where before there was none. None/nada/zero, ergo it may be, that, biological life, may exist eternally, with and eternally existent Universe/ALL.

Even in heat death or other scenarios, where Universe is said to flatten out and become one very large very flat photon, that flat maybe even seemingly 2D plane/polygon--- polygonal because finite ---may contain the a cosmic pattern/coding, even if only gravitational spacetime membrane, until the polygonal plane, begins to infold or unfold or both and the coding expands out--- as the more obivous ---yet simple RNA-DNA, in pieces that then have the potential to be full fledged humans, or at simple biologicals that can recombine more complex biologicals ergo simple to complex evolution.

I dunno, but my Rybonics "heat death' scenario graphics begin to show, geometrically, how this wholistic scenario could unfold as it infolds and out folds.

Rybo the Rybot

[Xan]

I agree, although the scientific language boggles me a bit... perhaps as metaphysical terms may boggle others.

I think you said that 1 is actually 0... no thing. I agree.


Xan

[r6r6]

Gem] Cause and effect is again something which is observable, so there's no realquestion about it.

Most believe limited free will is free of cause and effect and my statements were to state this is an error i.e. I believe humans metaphysical intentions, choices etc... are due to cause and effect.

I belive all consciouness is cause and effect

The tricky bit is, instead of being focused on the 'things' look toward the between bit.

that is what I have done with placing gravity into the a quasi-physical, buffer-zone between physical/energy and macro-micro infinite non-occupied space.

What we don't have, and what Penrose and others are looking for, is the link from gravity to our more medio-existence of atoms, molecules ergo consicousness of brain.

[quote]It appears that there is 'nothing between', but the relationship is between things.[/QUOTE

No things/no somethings non-occupied space

--above and below are tangent with no relationship---

gravity of occupied space

---if gravity=quasi-physica, thenl there must be inbetween "relationship" to below-- imho

somethings/things =physical/enery of occupied space

Oh yeah, the waves.

Waves are gometric metaphysical patterns, just as triangle, square, plaid and spiral are. The physical medium is the water, atoms, particles, pop-sicle sticks.

There's a whole world of chaos theory... order form the chaos... that is also the basis offractal geometry too... in itself fractal geometry has a long history.

I belive there is only haos because we do not see the underlying order of cause and effect determinism. This goes back the conscious with limited free will is and illusion, because we can not access gravitationally underlying order, and even if we could, there would never ever be enough technology to map of all the interrlatiosnhips. imho

People always tried to quantify infinity, paradoxically, but at the heart of the geometry, where the mind can not define, infinity begins... so there is a common quality shared by both subjectivity and infinity...

There is not infinity of the quasi-physical/grtavity or physical/ernergy imho

There is a metaphysically mathematical expression of infinity by there is no infinity of numbers expressed via physical/energy medium. imho

There is macro-micro infinite non-occupied space, beyond our finite 01 and 02 Universe. imho

To bring order from the chaos... Gaston Julia published his paper on the Julia set in 1900 or so... but it couldn't be made a shapeful geometry. At the time it was an obscure formula which the mind could not make form from.

Yeah I have that book stached away somewhere and I read it/skimmed in when I first got it.

The advent of supercomputers in eighties allowed thpousands, millions of calculations, and plotted them as points... and that's how we now form the shapes which Julia must've conceived.

Finite

Yeah they so many pretty ones. I have another book around here with wonderful fractal graphics and I could have swore that I read in that bool, that, there are two primary kinds of fractals, finite and infinite.

I went back to find that reference a last year and could never ever find that quote.

I did an internet search at that time and could find no reference for that statement, so maybe Gem, if know or have link to such please share.

Thx for any help in that area and for you considerations of my comments as stated.

Rybo the Rybot

[r6r6]

Xan][color=Navy]I agree, although the scientific language boggles me a bit... perhaps as metaphysical terms may boggle others.
I think you said that 1 is actually 0... no thing. I agree.Xan

Xan, I think you mean to say, that, my 01( gravity ) is actually "0" and that is not what I was stating.

01 and 02 is an illusion i.e. there exists only metaphysical.

However, we have these bangs and pinches so we to define them with words, lables indentities etc....

You appear to have hard time comprehending simple concepts and sentences as others state them.

I would help you, and others, if you would reply with your comments interspersed with others comments.

I migh help you to more correctly understand what your reading and communication with othere.

You continue to state things that I did not say.

Rybo the Rybot

[Xan]

hmmm... well, if it was important to me I might take you up on your offer. Discussion is not my aim but simply self-expression and it's no problem for me that I seem to think differently from most people.

But "continue"? I've only made one response to you, Rybo.


with metaphysical blessings
Xan

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Xan

Discussion is not my aim but simply self-expression Xan

it's the listening side of discussion that doesn't interest you.

be good if you steer clear of this discussion since it disinterests you