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12-07-2019, 03:01 AM
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Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
deadness in that it was like being put to sleep in it to help it work its way deeper into the system.
jesus is up for interpretation since he is no longer alive. i say what i say because its likely he was far along on the path. like many gurus today. where in their presence one may experience bliss and or silence.
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The deadness as you describe sounds like a full surrender point. This makes sense in terms of letting go to the core as deep as one can go.
As I understand it can signal a major ending where the process becomes one of union. The walk as ones true self. True nature. The burning up of the old (energetically) no longer the leading process.
As a “whole” being presence like Jesus (as it’s been told) affected others through his clarity of being, where the fullness of his being is reflected. Much like natural born healer types affect.
__________________
Your trials did not come to punish you, but to awaken you - to make you realise that you are a part of Spirit and that just behind the sparks of your life is
the Flame of Infinity.
Paramahansa Yogananda
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12-07-2019, 03:06 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
everything can be explained by actual expereince. something a real guru can offer if one is open enough. or through some other means. trying to know something from the mind i dont see being very productive.
put it another way. the mind will always think in cause and effect. because that is what it witnesses in life. beyond the mind is a paradox. joy and silence for no reason. that is just its nature. its a destroyer of the mind in that it makes no sense from the minds perspective. but the mind is limited to only knowing what it has previously experienced. thus it takes experience for the mind to fathom such a possibility of joy and silence that neither comes and goes, that does not grow tired of, is not in judgement, but quenches ones mind and body effortlessly without missing a beat.
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Personally, though I find 'silence' to be very 'peaceful' and in that sense Love and Joy conducive, I prefer 'listening' and 'singing and dancing' to mind-and-spirit generated 'muse-ic' which I experience as being infinitely Love and Joy 'groovy'. So I have no desire whatsoever to 'destroy' (as you put it) its/their active-ity.
What I share in said regard by way of my treatise is:
"My hope is that the time-space transcendental perspective and associated commentaries pertaining to Life’s worldly Flow presented here will facilitate folks more wittingly deploying their Love and Joy capabilities in creative conjunction with others around them, whatever their present physiosocial (including any school, line of teachers and/or group affiliation) context, by utilizing their own (unique!) soul’s awareness and motive constellation in furtherance of its (hence also their own) Love and Joy growth-venture aspirations in said context, whatever the parameters and aim‑focus of these may then and there be. Even so however, any and everyone’s psychospiritual process being so multi-factor determined and fluidly moment-to-moment variable as to only be approximately known, felt and related to (by way of ‘normal’ consciousness and cognition, that is), and what (any)one thinks and feels in relation and response to any given stimulus at any given point pretty much just being a function of one’s history prior to one’s arrival at such point in any case, I more than anything else recommend that you (anyone!) primarily rely on the results of your earnestly praying, that is, of your intentionally desiring and attitudinally expecting, to be shown (by capital ‘M’ Mind) whatever, if anything, you may (presently) not be seeing which it might be better for you to see (‘better’ in terms of leading you in a ‘greater’ Love and Joy Life‑Flow direction), and that you also be sparked and spurred (by capital ‘S’ Spirit) to ‘do’ whatever would be best in that case (‘best’ by virtue of your consequently becoming as Love and Joy Flow-augmenting as you can possibly be in such vein). The rationale here being (1) that the Reality, or Nature, of (all!) Being-n-Doing is such that every soul ultimately has to ‘find’ its own way to grow and continue to flourish, that is if it is to continue to grow and flourish; and (2) that mentally and emotionally tapping into the capital ‘P’ Power of your (it is ours, really! ) supranodal capital ‘S’ Soul is your (anyone’s!) ‘best bet’ in this regard."
I am 'blissfully' happy with the degree to which such a philosophy has been 'productive' in my case, though, based on what you have said, my guess is it probably won't be so in your case.
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12-07-2019, 03:32 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: in my truck. anywhere usa
Posts: 8,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Personally, though I find 'silence' to be very 'peaceful' and in that sense Love and Joy conducive, I prefer 'listening' and 'singing and dancing' to mind-and-spirit generated 'muse-ic' which I experience as being infinitely Love and Joy 'groovy'. So I have no desire whatsoever to 'destroy' (as you put it) its/their active-ity.
What I share in said regard by way of my treatise is:
"My hope is that the time-space transcendental perspective and associated commentaries pertaining to Life’s worldly Flow presented here will facilitate folks more wittingly deploying their Love and Joy capabilities in creative conjunction with others around them, whatever their present physiosocial (including any school, line of teachers and/or group affiliation) context, by utilizing their own (unique!) soul’s awareness and motive constellation in furtherance of its (hence also their own) Love and Joy growth-venture aspirations in said context, whatever the parameters and aim‑focus of these may then and there be. Even so however, any and everyone’s psychospiritual process being so multi-factor determined and fluidly moment-to-moment variable as to only be approximately known, felt and related to (by way of ‘normal’ consciousness and cognition, that is), and what (any)one thinks and feels in relation and response to any given stimulus at any given point pretty much just being a function of one’s history prior to one’s arrival at such point in any case, I more than anything else recommend that you (anyone!) primarily rely on the results of your earnestly praying, that is, of your intentionally desiring and attitudinally expecting, to be shown (by capital ‘M’ Mind) whatever, if anything, you may (presently) not be seeing which it might be better for you to see (‘better’ in terms of leading you in a ‘greater’ Love and Joy Life‑Flow direction), and that you also be sparked and spurred (by capital ‘S’ Spirit) to ‘do’ whatever would be best in that case (‘best’ by virtue of your consequently becoming as Love and Joy Flow-augmenting as you can possibly be in such vein). The rationale here being (1) that the Reality, or Nature, of (all!) Being-n-Doing is such that every soul ultimately has to ‘find’ its own way to grow and continue to flourish, that is if it is to continue to grow and flourish; and (2) that mentally and emotionally tapping into the capital ‘P’ Power of your (it is ours, really! ) supranodal capital ‘S’ Soul is your (anyone’s!) ‘best bet’ in this regard."
I am 'blissfully' happy with the degree to which such a philosophy has been 'productive' in my case, though, based on what you have said, my guess is it probably won't be so in your case.
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i enjoy life as well. the context was about bliss and silence. bliss and silence doesn't remove the emotional and mental experience. its added to the living experience. its like gravity. but you can still walk and chew bubble gum. its not a one or the other.
when i said destroy it was in the context of causeless joy. that such a thing is possible. where as before the mind didn't yet have such an experience.
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12-07-2019, 03:33 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
deadness in that it was like being put to sleep in it to help it work its way deeper into the system.
jesus is up for interpretation since he is no longer alive. i say what i say because its likely he was far along on the path. like many gurus today. where in their presence one may experience bliss and or silence.
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Ok thanks for the clarification.
IMO You will find if you read the bible that it was more what Jesus said and did that people noticed, not how he made people feel in his presence. When you can heal every health condition in a person up to and including death, then I think you can compare what you have found with what Jesus found, but surely the comparison is somewhat premature until then.
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12-07-2019, 03:37 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: in my truck. anywhere usa
Posts: 8,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
The deadness as you describe sounds like a full surrender point. This makes sense in terms of letting go to the core as deep as one can go.
As I understand it can signal a major ending where the process becomes one of union. The walk as ones true self. True nature. The burning up of the old (energetically) no longer the leading process.
As a “whole” being presence like Jesus (as it’s been told) affected others through his clarity of being, where the fullness of his being is reflected. Much like natural born healer types affect.
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yeah, thats why i think the depth of the experience can go and go. if therr is an end to it. i don't know. i like to think there is no end. jesus could of very well been very far. i like to think so. but i dont know? my personal experince with him was hard to tell. as it was a blip on the screen. perhaps because im most connected to the planet as a guru. so when i think of something that is beyond myself my mind goes to the planet. since thats what i experience.
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12-07-2019, 03:41 AM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: in my truck. anywhere usa
Posts: 8,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Ok thanks for the clarification.
IMO You will find if you read the bible that it was more what Jesus said and did that people noticed, not how he made people feel in his presence. When you can heal every health condition in a person up to and including death, then I think you can compare what you have found with what Jesus found, but surely the comparison is somewhat premature until then.
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perhaps. nobody will ever know what jesus did or did not do. but im certain millions of Christians would agree with you. in my view it sounds more like a comic book than reality. but doesn't mean it didn't happen.
edit add.
people today still point to what some guru did or said. as if that was what was valued. nothing has changed. in my view yesterday as in today. the masses miss the boat.
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12-07-2019, 04:01 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
perhaps. nobody will ever know what jesus did or did not do. but im certain millions of Christians would agree with you. in my view it sounds more like a comic book than reality. but doesn't mean it didn't happen.
edit add.
people today still point to what some guru did or said. as if that was what was valued. nothing has changed. in my view yesterday as in today. the masses miss the boat.
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I think the healing path is fundamentally different to the bliss/silence path. Your milestones are different to a healers milestones. The end results are different. Jesus was a spectacular example of the healer’s path, but he wasn’t the only one, one of my favourite modern examples is saint Seraphim of Sarov, his healings were also miraculous.
Jesus did say that whoever believes in him will be able to do what he does and more, it is a promise that humanity can do what he did, that miracles aren’t just for comic books, but his abilities aren’t cultivated on every spiritual path per se.
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12-07-2019, 06:06 AM
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Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
yeah, thats why i think the depth of the experience can go and go. if therr is an end to it. i don't know. i like to think there is no end. jesus could of very well been very far. i like to think so. but i dont know? my personal experince with him was hard to tell. as it was a blip on the screen. perhaps because im most connected to the planet as a guru. so when i think of something that is beyond myself my mind goes to the planet. since thats what i experience.
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If you look at jesus as someone revealing the potential of himself, it’s not about how far he was, but more that he knew ‘he already was’ and his potential and wholeness. Many spiritual seekers are seeking wholeness because of perceived seperation. Jesus in my view of him didn’t perceive himself having a deficit but more he knew he was a natural healer. ‘His path’-he was aware of his abilities.
__________________
Your trials did not come to punish you, but to awaken you - to make you realise that you are a part of Spirit and that just behind the sparks of your life is
the Flame of Infinity.
Paramahansa Yogananda
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12-07-2019, 08:30 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
If you look at jesus as someone revealing the potential of himself, it’s not about how far he was, but more that he knew ‘he already was’ and his potential and wholeness. Many spiritual seekers are seeking wholeness because of perceived seperation. Jesus in my view of him didn’t perceive himself having a deficit but more he knew he was a natural healer. ‘His path’-he was aware of his abilities.
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Knowing that ‘he already was’ is advaita talk, in Christian terms the Holy Spirit came down upon him and stayed. One is a mental position, one is a mystical happening.
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12-07-2019, 12:05 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Knowing that ‘he already was’ is advaita talk, in Christian terms the Holy Spirit came down upon him and stayed. One is a mental position, one is a mystical happening.
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I appreciate the value and validity of both 'ways' of seeing/experiencing.
Mind and Spirit are two 'facets' of the same Soul-Constellation Living-Thang. ... (rationally or otherwise) 'knowing' and (mystically or otherwise) being 'spirit inspired' are just different 'features' of the same phenomenon, IMO.
Mind and Spirit are always functionally associated. Though one may mentally or emotionally 'focus' on one and not the other such that one or the other is just in the position of 'background', both 'knowledge' (perception) and 'spirit' (motive-ation) are always simultaneously PRESENT.
From my treatise:
"The Entity of Life (which is The Flow of Creation), of which you and I and everyone else ‘in’ existence is a ‘vital’ part, is the outworking and feedback-infusing dynamic of The omnipresent, Love and Joy focused Essence of Life (which is Creativity ITSELF!), such that said living Essence and living Entity operationally ex‧press and (thereby) ex‧peer‧ience Love and Joy (which is the ‘nature’ of said Essence) in every possible way to the utmost possible degree together. Here now, in order to begin explicating the true meaning of Jesus’ otherwise esoterically mystical statements, let me infuse what the words ‘being’ and ‘doing’ seminally denote with what the words ‘mind’ and ‘spirit’ nominally represent:
Every aspect of Life (i.e. of Being-n-Doing) is an emanation of Life’s omnipresent Essence (d/b/a 'Source') that, by virtue of Its Power, is endowed with (1) the capacity to be conscious to some degree, which consciousness, or presence of ‘mind’, enables ‘it’ to ex·peer·ience whatever vibrations (occurrences, data-packets, etc.) ‘it’ is therefore capable of perceiving (i.e. registering or 'knowing') and so possibly responding to, and (2) the motive‧ation, or ‘spirit’, to ex·press ‘itself’ by way of causing, (generating, transmitting, propagating, etc.) whatever vibrations (occurrences, data-packets, etc.) ‘it’ is thereby motivated to ‘make’ in response thereto. In full‑zoom perspective, every nodal and multi-nodal feature of Life may be ‘seen’ to be a subsidiary soul, or gestalt of Life, which is facultatively imbued with ‘mind’ and ‘spirit’ by, and consequently both experiences and expresses ‘itself’ in relationship to and with other nodes of Life ‘in’ the matrixial framework* of, a (supranodal!) Soul, which is the Mind-n-Spirit constellation (which many regard and relate to as having personal attributes, though all personal attributes actually derive from It**) of That which is All That Is."
[Footnotes:
* “In ' him' we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28)
**As channel-spoken and recorded in Ch.10 of The Bhagavad Gita: “ I am the Seed of all being, … no creature moving or unmoving can live without Me.”
Raja Yoga anyone?
Last edited by davidsun : 12-07-2019 at 02:18 PM.
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