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Old 22-04-2017, 01:51 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Thumbs up Gobeklli Tepe Oldest Temple 11000 Years Ago

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...age%3D4&page=1

..."Six miles from Urfa, an ancient city in southeastern Turkey, Klaus Schmidt has made one of the most startling archaeological discoveries of our time: massive carved stones about 11,000 years old, crafted and arranged by prehistoric people who had not yet developed metal tools or even pottery. The megaliths predate Stonehenge by some 6,000 years. The place is called Gobekli Tepe, and Schmidt, a German archaeologist who has been working here more than a decade, is convinced it's the site of the world's oldest temple."..

..."The first year, we went through 15,000 pieces of animal bone, all of them wild. It was pretty clear we were dealing with a hunter-gatherer site," Peters says. "It's been the same every year since." The abundant remnants of wild game indicate that the people who lived here had not yet domesticated animals or farmed."....
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Old 22-04-2017, 05:30 PM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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I read some several years back that Gobeklli Tepe seemed to have been intentionally buried. I can't recall where I read this or who said it, nor do I know if this is true if what significance it would have. That's it's immensely larger than Stonehenge yet predates it by thousands of years is fascinating to say the least.
I'm not so sure with established paradigms we have an accurate picture of ancient life, culture and society as more and more puzzling discoveries seem to be surfacing concerning the complexity of the human being.
One rather earth shattering thing. Anthropologists and paleontologists insisted that North America was peopled by Asians who came over a land bridge at the Bering Straits. Genome study has shown this is not the case and forces researchers to reject not only the land bridge theory, but that they were the same people descended from those indigenous people that currently occupy Asia.
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Old 22-04-2017, 11:20 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Arrow Impact Confirmed > Mammoths Die Off > East and West Ancient Peoples Meet

Yeah Mardave read some of the some stuff you did. Ex the intentional burying.

Last program I saw on tv was showing the genetic connection between Navajho's and Asians. That is opposite of genome info you present and/or believe. They went even broader to South America to Brazil or Argentina. Historical finds in South America dating 10,000 years if not 15,000 years ago have been known since 1990's if not early.

Seems like there was another continent involved in their genetic explorations also..{ ? } I dunno.

First of all, all humans were within at least 50th cousins of each other, or at least at time of and as presented in Seven Mysterys of Life by the author{ Guy Murchie } who spent 17 years writing his book. I read it in early 90's, If I recall correctly.

If you don't believe 90-99% of Paleoithic Indians came from Asia--- irrespective of land or water routes --- then you are certainly missing the obvious facial similarities. You and I will go no where on that topic.

1} Now if you want to get back to 'if we believe the scientists Gobeklli tepee speculations are correct'--- as based on their pathways of discovery --- then I have info Ive read{ in 90's } observed on tv, that is directly related to the comet/asteroids hitting in North America at that 10,950 so year area. No crater remains because they/it mainly hit ice pack that was already in receding ice age phase. So at lot of ice melted and cause much fresh water to flow into Atlantic ocean.

It is older info that the Gobeklli article states has been alledged to have been debunked by some over the years, So as article states in Gobeklli Tepee--- if scenario is true as believed those scientist types ---then it is confirmation of the comets/asteroid and fragments impatcing Earth at those approximate times.

They have found Buckminister Fullerene-- or just the fullerene's ---in some of those ice cover impact areas, and in some caves North or South Carolina. They state that these Fullerenes can only be created by extreme impacts created by impacts to Earth.

2} Ive seen some tv show that show how some spear heads in they found North and/or South Carolina were very similar to types found in French caves{ European cave-man }

My statement previously above in post "90-99% "of Indians connected to Asia, leave out those Indians/Cave-like indigenous who may have come from Europe. So the story goes, as a result of the asteroid type impacts, the Mammoth died off, as did the Saber Tooth Tiger--- their well preserved bones have been found in marshes of FLorida --.

So these East coast Euro-Indians that survived the horrendus weather changes-- maybe only handful -- and migrated west to eventually meet the Folsom head Paleo Indians. If I recall correctly they developed this scenario/speculation,based on some spear heads in Texas, that, greatly resemble the East coast spear heads found in that or those caves of North/South.

Did you follow of those connections back to Gobeklli Tepees confirmation that asteriods hit at around that time?

3} Ok, the one most recent tv show I saw, relates back to the land bridge and only a handful of people making it from Alaska to North America...{ to be clear here, I'm more in favor of trusting the water pathways but thats another story }...

However, this program was very convincing with their line of logic based on computer recreations and observations of Earths Terra Firma from Alaska into the N.A, around 10, 15,00 years ago or more. {?}

Anyway their scenario shows a pass passage/opening from Alaska to US that would come out around Montana or so. Oh yeah, I recall now that this whole scenario stems from bones of woman found in deep water caves on East Side/Gulf Side of Mexico.s Yucutan.

I cant recall all of the details of their scenario, or at least not correctly for sure, so best stop there.

r6

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARDAV70
I read some several years back that Gobeklli Tepe seemed to have been intentionally buried. I can't recall where I read this or who said it, nor do I know if this is true if what significance it would have. That's it's immensely larger than Stonehenge yet predates it by thousands of years is fascinating to say the least.
I'm not so sure with established paradigms we have an accurate picture of ancient life, culture and society as more and more puzzling discoveries seem to be surfacing concerning the complexity of the human being.
One rather earth shattering thing. Anthropologists and paleontologists insisted that North America was peopled by Asians who came over a land bridge at the Bering Straits. Genome study has shown this is not the case and forces researchers to reject not only the land bridge theory, but that they were the same people descended from those indigenous people that currently occupy Asia.
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  #4  
Old 23-04-2017, 02:32 AM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
Yeah Mardave read some of the some stuff you did. Ex the intentional burying.

Last program I saw on tv was showing the genetic connection between Navajho's and Asians. That is opposite of genome info you present and/or believe. They went even broader to South America to Brazil or Argentina. Historical finds in South America dating 10,000 years if not 15,000 years ago have been known since 1990's if not early.

Seems like there was another continent involved in their genetic explorations also..{ ? } I dunno.

First of all, all humans were within at least 50th cousins of each other, or at least at time of and as presented in Seven Mysterys of Life by the author{ Guy Murchie } who spent 17 years writing his book. I read it in early 90's, If I recall correctly.

If you don't believe 90-99% of Paleoithic Indians came from Asia--- irrespective of land or water routes --- then you are certainly missing the obvious facial similarities. You and I will go no where on that topic.

1} Now if you want to get back to 'if we believe the scientists Gobeklli tepee speculations are correct'--- as based on their pathways of discovery --- then I have info Ive read{ in 90's } observed on tv, that is directly related to the comet/asteroids hitting in North America at that 10,950 so year area. No crater remains because they/it mainly hit ice pack that was already in receding ice age phase. So at lot of ice melted and cause much fresh water to flow into Atlantic ocean.

It is older info that the Gobeklli article states has been alledged to have been debunked by some over the years, So as article states in Gobeklli Tepee--- if scenario is true as believed those scientist types ---then it is confirmation of the comets/asteroid and fragments impatcing Earth at those approximate times.

They have found Buckminister Fullerene-- or just the fullerene's ---in some of those ice cover impact areas, and in some caves North or South Carolina. They state that these Fullerenes can only be created by extreme impacts created by impacts to Earth.

2} Ive seen some tv show that show how some spear heads in they found North and/or South Carolina were very similar to types found in French caves{ European cave-man }

My statement previously above in post "90-99% "of Indians connected to Asia, leave out those Indians/Cave-like indigenous who may have come from Europe. So the story goes, as a result of the asteroid type impacts, the Mammoth died off, as did the Saber Tooth Tiger--- their well preserved bones have been found in marshes of FLorida --.

So these East coast Euro-Indians that survived the horrendus weather changes-- maybe only handful -- and migrated west to eventually meet the Folsom head Paleo Indians. If I recall correctly they developed this scenario/speculation,based on some spear heads in Texas, that, greatly resemble the East coast spear heads found in that or those caves of North/South.

Did you follow of those connections back to Gobeklli Tepees confirmation that asteriods hit at around that time?

3} Ok, the one most recent tv show I saw, relates back to the land bridge and only a handful of people making it from Alaska to North America...{ to be clear here, I'm more in favor of trusting the water pathways but thats another story }...

However, this program was very convincing with their line of logic based on computer recreations and observations of Earths Terra Firma from Alaska into the N.A, around 10, 15,00 years ago or more. {?}

Anyway their scenario shows a pass passage/opening from Alaska to US that would come out around Montana or so. Oh yeah, I recall now that this whole scenario stems from bones of woman found in deep water caves on East Side/Gulf Side of Mexico.s Yucutan.

I cant recall all of the details of their scenario, or at least not correctly for sure, so best stop there.

r6

Thanks for the kind and informative response, r6.

But first, let me make something clear. I'm not a "believer". What I read or hear in topics I'm interested in I take not with belief, but with contemplation whether what is said could or could not be true. I'm not a geneticist doing the research, and therefore am no expert. I can only accept truth as to what I directly experience. All else is accepted or rejected as to sensible viability of what might or might not be.
I offer what I've read/heard as a matter of discussion as an interested lay person, so my apologies if you think what I'd said earlier is a belief on my part. It's interesting and valuable when someone points out new findings, as you've kindly done, and thank you for that. However, I don't "believe" any of it, yet I hold that these are the findings, none of which is not possible or unfounded. Lol...and then...maybe I'm just making too much of semantics in regards of the word "believe"...???

To answer your question...no, I did not take into account the idea that asteroids hit the earth around the time of Gobekli Tepe's demise. The word "around" addresses me as a possible answer, not THE answer. More info is needed, IMO. Very interesting, though.

I think, in a nutshell, that our human history is far more complex than we realize. No one human being or organization can possibly have all the answers at this time, but it sure is interesting to read what's been found and talk about the how's, why's and when's...without falling into "belief" systems.
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Old 23-04-2017, 01:01 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Color Asian > Sea and Or Land > North and South AMerican sites

Sure your welcome MDave We all have beliefs for this or that, that, may change over time with new information.

1} That you dont appear to see genetic connection between Asians and so many North and South Americans just seem dumbfounding to me. it is obvious, irrespective of land and/or pathways from Asia to America's.

2} Again, the program on genetics I saw was unequilvical with their findings. So I come away beliving there is genetic connection, that, is more direct than the 50th cousin scenarios Guy Muchie lays out in "Seven Mysteries of Life". A book written with much less genetic information but shows how all humans, on finite planet have to be within 50th cousins.

3} the program began mystery of how 11 - 13,0000 year old Mexican princess found in Yucatan East Gulf side of Yucutan got there into thes deep water caves was primarily based on the handful of Paleo Indians coming through a short, temperorary opening in ice pack in Canada.

From there some followed rivers{ Misourri }routes from Montana, Wyoming, Colorado to Missippi on to Gulf and then over to Yucutan.

That led them to see those humans studing some remains of Indians{ Paleo? } of found in Montanna, or thereabouts. Another perspective is given in that program, based on molecules of food found in the gut of one of these well presevered Indians.

This alternate perspective says what was in the gut can also be found in seaweed off coasts of North Americas. So that viewpoint says there was sea pathway of Paleo Indians that then one or more crossed through mountains to Montanna and then on to Gulf and Yucutan.

So the above is stuff from two differrent programs I saw in last year or two. Again, I favor sea pathways to the Americas but some of both may have been involved in various ways. But a current in the ocean can carry some floating along way and especially if a human{s} are steering and paddling or even have some type of sails.

The sea pathways led to a few differrent Paleo Indian sites found in both North and South Americas 5- 15,000 years ago give or take a few thousand years, as I'm using my recall abilities for all of the above info.

4} the there is the {Paleo European Indians } that is mostly speculation based on the spear points found in some Carolina caves resembled those types found in French caves,

.....they may have become what are known as Clovis points. This link goes in these scenarios
http://www.stoneagetools.co.uk/solutrean-theory.htm

and are also found west of Missippii. Folsom Points are mostly west of missippii.

and this link is more indepth

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...lture-3825828/
....More than 10,000 Clovis points have been discovered, scattered in 1,500 locations throughout most of North America; Clovis points, or something similar, have turned up as far south as Venezuela.

....They seem to have materialized suddenly, by archaeological standards, and spread fast. The oldest securely dated points, discovered in Texas, trace back 13,500 years. In a few centuries they show up everywhere from Florida to Montana, from Pennsylvania to Washington State.

..."The vituperative debate ended only when strong evidence for a pre-Clovis settlement turned up in Chile in the late 1990s. Other pre-Clovis sites followed, notably a cave in Oregon with fossilized human excrement identified by DNA analysis and dated by accelerator mass spectrometry. Little is understood about these early peoples. Clovis may no longer be the oldest American culture, but it remains the oldest American culture we know much about."....

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...lture-3825828/


Corrected PNA info
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/41/16016/suppl/DC1

..."Clovis artifacts, a fire pit, and an almost fully articulated skeleton of an adult mammoth were recovered at Murray Springs with the black mat draped conformably over them. Excavations by Vance Haynes, Jr., and colleagues also revealed hundreds of mammoth footprints in the sand infilled by black mat sediments. These footprints and the mammoth skeleton appear to have been preserved by rapid burial after the YDB event (1). No in situ Clovis points and extinct megafaunal remains have been recovered from in or above the black mat, indicating that the mammoths (except in isolated cases) and Clovis hunting technology disappeared simultaneously."....

..."Aerial photo (U.S. Geological Survey) of a cluster of elliptical and often overlapping Carolina Bays with raised rims in Bladen County, North Carolina. The Bays have been contrast-enhanced and selectively darkened for greater clarity. The largest Bays are several kilometers in length, and the overlapping cluster of them in the center is ≈8 km long. Previous researchers have proposed that the Bays are impact-related features."....

..."Carolina Bays. The Carolina Bays are a group of »500,000 highly elliptical and often overlapping depressions scattered throughout the Atlantic Coastal Plain from New Jersey to Alabama (see SI Fig. 7). They range from ≈50 m to ≈10 km in length (10) and are up to ≈15 m deep with their parallel long axes oriented predominately to the northwest. The Bays have poorly stratified, sandy, elevated rims (up to 7 m) that often are higher to the southeast. All of the Bay rims examined were found to have, throughout their entire 1.5- to 5-m sandy rims, a typical assemblage of YDB markers (magnetic grains, magnetic microspherules, Ir, charcoal, soot, glass-like carbon, nanodiamonds, carbon spherules, and fullerenes with 3He). In Howard Bay, markers were concentrated throughout the rim, as well as in a discrete layer (15 cm thick) located 4 m deep at the base of the basin fill and containing peaks in magnetic microspherules and magnetic grains that are enriched in Ir (15 ppb), along with peaks in charcoal, carbon spherules, and glass-like carbon. In two Bay-lakes, Mattamuskeet and Phelps, glass-like carbon and peaks in magnetic grains (16-17 g/kg) were found ≈4 m below the water surface and 3 m deep in sediment that is younger than a marine shell hash that dates to the ocean highstand of the previous interglacial.

....Modern Fires. Four recent modern sites were surface-sampled. Two were taken from forest underbrush fires in North Carolina that burned near Holly Grove in 2006 and Ft. Bragg in 2007. Trees mainly were yellow pine mixed with oak. There was no evidence of carbon spherules and only limited evidence of glass-like carbon, which usually was fused onto much larger pieces of charcoal. The glass-like carbon did not form on oak charcoal, being visible only on pine charcoal, where it appears to have formed by combustion of highly flammable pine resin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://journalofcosmology.com/Extinction105.html
..."The concentration of impact markers peaks near the Great Lakes and their unusually high water content suggests that a 4.6 km-wide comet fragmented and exploded over the Laurentide Ice Sheet creating numerous craters that now persist at the bottom of the Great Lakes. The coincidence of this impact, the onset of Younger Dryas cooling, extinction of the megafauna, and the appearance of a black mat strongly suggests that all these events are directly related. These results have unleashed an avalanche of controversy which I will address in this paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARDAV70
Thanks for the kind and informative response, r6.
But first, let me make something clear. I'm not a "believer". ......However, I don't "believe" any of it, yet I hold that these are the findings, none of which is not possible or unfounded. Lol...and then...maybe I'm just making too much of semantics in regards of the word "believe"...???
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Old 23-04-2017, 01:07 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Arrow Gobeklii Confirms ET Impacts > Fullerenes in N. America

Fullerenes found in Carolinas and that is maybe same area the Clovis-like spear points are found in French caves.

..."We propose that the YD event resulted from multiple ET airbursts along with surface impacts. We further suggest that the catastrophic effects of this ET event and associated biomass burning led to abrupt YD cooling, contributed to the late Pleistocene megafaunal extinction, promoted human cultural changes, and led to immediate decline in some post-Clovis human populations (19)."....


..."In the 1990s, W. Topping (14) discovered magnetic microspherules and other possible ET evidence in sediment at the Gainey PaleoAmerican site in Michigan (see also ref. 15), and Lougheed (16) and Bi (17) reported that late Pleistocene glacial drift contained similar cosmic spherules. We now report substantial additional data from multiple, well dated stratigraphic sections across North America supporting a major ET airburst or collision near 12.9 ka. Directly beneath the black mat, where present, we found a thin, sedimentary layer (usually <5 cm) containing high concentrations of magnetic microspherules and grains, nanodiamonds, iridium (Ir) at above background levels, and fullerenes containing ET helium. These indicators are associated with charcoal, soot, carbon spherules, and glass-like carbon, all of which suggest intense wildfires. Most of these markers are associated with previously recorded impacts, but a few are atypical of impact events. We identify this layer as the YD boundary (YDB), and we refer to this incident as the YD event.


....At the sites studied, independent radiocarbon (1) and optically stimulated luminescence dates that tend to cluster near 13 ka were used to establish the age of the YDB. For example, the end-Clovis stratum (the YDB) is well dated at Murray Springs, AZ, (eight dates averaging 10,890 14C yr or calendar 12.92 ka) and the nearby Lehner site (12 dates averaging 10,940 14C yr or 12.93 calendar ka). Haynes (2) correlated the base of the black mat (the YDB) with the onset of YD cooling, dated to 12.9 ka in the GISP2 ice core, Greenland (see GISP2 chronology in SI Fig. 6) (18). Therefore, we have adopted a calendar age of 12.9 ± 0.1 ka for the YD event.

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/41/16016.full
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Old 24-04-2017, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
..."Six miles from Urfa, an ancient city in southeastern Turkey, Klaus Schmidt has made one of the most startling archaeological discoveries of our time: massive carved stones about 11,000 years old, crafted and arranged by prehistoric people who had not yet developed metal tools or even pottery. The megaliths predate Stonehenge by some 6,000 years. The place is called Gobekli Tepe, and Schmidt, a German archaeologist who has been working here more than a decade, is convinced it's the site of the world's oldest temple."..

..."The first year, we went through 15,000 pieces of animal bone, all of them wild. It was pretty clear we were dealing with a hunter-gatherer site," Peters says. "It's been the same every year since." The abundant remnants of wild game indicate that the people who lived here had not yet domesticated animals or farmed."....
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Old 25-04-2017, 01:12 AM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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This is obviously a passion for you...and that's good that you are pursuing it. I think needless to say, I'm not so passionate about it, ergo my ignorance about much of what you've presented. When you say 'ET' do you mean extra terrestrial, in that somehow some other intelligence from elsewhere is involved? (I know there are some out there who are of this camp). If so, my thought is that the possibility of the existence of ETs and their possibly having visited earth far in the past (and even now) and perhaps may even have had some influence on earth is not an impossibility.
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Old 25-04-2017, 12:19 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Arrow ET = Extra-terrestrial > Comets/Asteroids/Meterors etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARDAV70
T When you say 'ET' do you mean extra terrestrial, in that somehow some other intelligence from elsewhere is involved?

ET is mentioned post#6 is extra-terrestrial{ ET }and specifically the article states as multiple" ET airbursts along with surface impacts"..."major ET airburst or collision near 12.9 ka."...and . fullerenes containing ET helium." all relate back too,

my post #2 where I state ..."directly related to the comet/asteroids hitting in North America at that 10,950 so year area. No crater remains because they/it mainly hit ice pack that was already in receding ice age phase. So at lot of ice melted and cause much fresh water to flow into Atlantic ocean"....and in post #5 that has the below and much more related info that you appear to have only glossed over;

"impact markers peaks near the Great Lakes and their unusually high water content suggests that a 4.6 km-wide comet fragmented and exploded over the Laurentide Ice Sheet"

All my comments and the article is regard to extra-terrestrial impacts of comets, asteroids/meteors. None of my given are stated to intend some ET inteligence.

"impact markers peaks near the Great Lakes and their unusually high water content suggests that a 4.6 km-wide comet fragmented and exploded over the Laurentide Ice Sheet"

Your off on a totally diffferrent topic not related to my given Gobekllii Tepee information regarding Gobeklli Tepee's stoner carving confirmation of ET impact 11, 13,000 years ago in Earth and most specifically in north america near great lakes and Canada ice pack during receding ice age.

I have more complete timeline of the speculative human migrations from Asian and Europeo at this thread below elsewhere is SF.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=112906

r6
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Old 25-04-2017, 01:40 PM
MARDAV70 MARDAV70 is offline
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Thanks for clearing that up, r6. I suspected you meant ET as simply from beyond earth and it's immediate environs, but being as there are many who are in the ET intelligence camp I just wanted to clear that up.
Yep, that would be taking the conversation to a different direction.
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