Hell

[Gemini46]

Originally Posted by inavalan

That's okay. I don't have to form an opinion about what you two agreed upon.

What I read sounded to me like whining (no offense intended), and I thought that maybe I misunderstood, and there is something you guys want done by somebody, and my question can clarify that for you too.

There is no "hell" ...

The wonderful thing about spirituality is that it is open for interpretation. Everyone has their beliefs & I respect that. No one is able to decide what your opinion is, that is just silly.

If I sounded like I was telling everyone my view is fact, that's not what i meant. I am just sharing my view of something. You have the option to do whatever you want with my own opinion. That is not my concern.

& yeah lol, I can see what you mean by whining. I tend to go off on rants, that is something I am trying to do less, so I appreciate your honesty. But still I am expressing my opinion of people who choose ignorance over enlightenment. I have a strong opinion of the catholic faith. Everything about it is rage inducing. I am not going to even start up. If someone is insulted by what I have to say regarding that matter, and believe me it has happened a countless number of times, then good. I have no problem telling them exactly how I feel.

But still, that is their beliefs and they are entitled to them.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Gemini46

The wonderful thing about spirituality is that it is open for interpretation. Everyone has their beliefs & I respect that. No one is able to decide what your opinion is, that is just silly.

If I sounded like I was telling everyone my view is fact, that's not what i meant. I am just sharing my view of something. You have the option to do whatever you want with my own opinion. That is not my concern.

& yeah lol, I can see what you mean by whining. I tend to go off on rants, that is something I am trying to do less, so I appreciate your honesty. But still I am expressing my opinion of people who choose ignorance over enlightenment. I have a strong opinion of the catholic faith. Everything about it is rage inducing. I am not going to even start up. If someone is insulted by what I have to say regarding that matter, and believe me it has happened a countless number of times, then good. I have no problem telling them exactly how I feel.

But still, that is their beliefs and they are entitled to them.

I understand. Each one of us has their own beliefs; we even cherish some of them; we're proud of them and firmly stand by them.

In this case, I didn't form an opinion about the subject; I didn't even follow close enough your train of thoughts; but I got an impression that you were "strongly expressing disapproval" of something, even anger, and you were not actually taking the next step of expressing a wish of what you wanted: what to be done, by whom, and when.

I believe that anger, disapproval, and other negative feelings, from which fear and hate are the worst, have a negative effect on the person who holds them, without any positive effect on the outcome or anything else. We shouldn't think about what we don't want, but about what we want. We shouldn't focus on what we dislike, but on how we'd like it to be, and when: now.

That's why I asked that question; unrelated to the specific object of your "disapproval".

[linen53]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I believe that anger, disapproval, and other negative feelings, from which fear and hate are the worst, have a negative effect on the person who holds them, without any positive effect on the outcome or anything else. We shouldn't think about what we don't want, but about what we want. We shouldn't focus on what we dislike, but on how we'd like it to be, and when: now.

That's why I asked that question; unrelated to the specific object of your "disapproval".

In my opinion you are saying look through rose colored glasses at what you want the world to look like.

In the case of the Pedophile priests, wishing things to be different is all well and good, but what about the children, in the meantime, who are being raped? There's no one to protect them.



Not happening here!

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by linen53

In my opinion you are saying look through rose colored glasses at what you want the world to look like.

In the case of the Pedophile priests, wishing things to be different is all well and good, but what about the children, in the meantime, who are being raped? There's no one to protect them.



Not happening here!

I don't say to accept what you don't like, even less to love everybody. I'm saying: deal with the perpetrator but not with anger, nor hate. Because those emotions are bad for those who have them, and not for the object of the emotions.

I think that justice should be about protecting the victims, about preventing the crime to happen again, by the same or other perpetrator. Punishment should be swift and harsh with this aim, not as revenge. Punishment should also not be firstly about the rehabilitation of the criminal, as I believe you can't change a person. Unfortunately justice, as it works now, is defective.

So, far from being soft on criminals, I say be also harsh with those who allowed those crimes, and who protected the criminals, with the same purpose: to prevent the crime to happen again, by the same or other perpetrator, but not from revenge, not with anger or hate.

People err, but there is an important difference between a decent character that made a mistake, and a repeat offender or hardened criminal. People don't change.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I don't say to accept what you don't like, even less to love everybody. I'm saying: deal with the perpetrator but not with anger, nor hate. Because those emotions are bad for those who have them, and not for the object of the emotions.

Any anger I felt toward the perpetrator will be for the children he harmed. And I would feel anger. Why give us emotions in an incarnation if we are not to use them? Just my thoughts.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I don't say to accept what you don't like, even less to love everybody. I'm saying: deal with the perpetrator but not with anger, nor hate. Because those emotions are bad for those who have them, and not for the object of the emotions.

actually everything is mixed up so badly that whatever you decry as good or bad, it comes back to bite you in the end.

For example on anger, it crossed my desk one day that there are strong meditative reasons one would want to indulge despite how it inspires you to act socially. The fact that people agree it is bad to is just one of the seals, that keep us out of a certain 'feeling' place en masse. Because as long as you agree that you should be agreeable to others and they should be agreeable to you, there are certain things you will be barred from learning. Part of the wisdom of God, that we are blind to.

People that indulge in anger get closer on that front but then they are sealed out by OTHER things they do agree are good or bad.

The cherubim at the east gate to eden won't fall to all the saying 'this is good' or 'this is bad' in the world... it is all just wasted breath. More wisdom from God?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by linen53

Any anger I felt toward the perpetrator will be for the children he harmed. And I would feel anger. Why give us emotions in an incarnation if we are not to use them? Just my thoughts.

I believe that our thoughts, including emotions, create thought-forms, and those thought-forms materialize situations, that will cause more of those emotions.

If you pay attention to your dreams, you'll notice that usually anger and fear in your dreams degenerate in nightmares. It happens the same in awake reality, just at a slower pace.

As far as I "know", the stages each unit of awareness goes through its evolvement quest are: instincts, emotions, intellect, intuition, from inorganic matter, through plant, animal, man, and this physical universe is the training ground.

Man (using the word generically) mostly controls its instincts, is mostly controlled by emotions, started to develop an intellect, and in most cases has no intuition. There are similar distributions of some of those features in the populations of each one of those kingdoms too (inorganic, plant, animal, man).

We can see the same kind of progression in almost everything. An obvious example is man's life. With variations and overlaps of these stages: you get born with some instincts, they control you, as you age you start forming emotions, they control you, as you age more you start developing intellect, in some cases it controls you, very few reach the stage where they start developing intuition.

You don't get rid of emotions, as you don't get rid of instincts or intellect (in normal cases), but you learn to master them: instincts, emotions, intellect, eventually intuition.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not up (or in) there. I still get angry, very rarely fearful, probably I don't hate anybody (anymore), but I know what I do, and don't whine when I see consequences.

A favorite quote is

"A generation that hates war will not bring peace. A generation that loves peace will bring peace."

It is a matter of focus. There is an NLP technique in which a subject's resistance is overcome by giving suggestions in negative form:

You don't see an elephant in your mind! (and guess what you see in your mind: an elephant!)

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

actually everything is mixed up so badly that whatever you decry as good or bad, it comes back to bite you in the end.

For example on anger, it crossed my desk one day that there are strong meditative reasons one would want to indulge despite how it inspires you to act socially. The fact that people agree it is bad to is just one of the seals, that keep us out of a certain 'feeling' place en masse. Because as long as you agree that you should be agreeable to others and they should be agreeable to you, there are certain things you will be barred from learning. Part of the wisdom of God, that we are blind to.

People that indulge in anger get closer on that front but then they are sealed out by OTHER things they do agree are good or bad.

The cherubim at the east gate to eden won't fall to all the saying 'this is good' or 'this is bad' in the world... it is all just wasted breath. More wisdom from God?

Not sure I can follow ...

I don't believe we need negative experiences to learn, as I don't believe you have to get bad grades in school to learn. I believe we bring pain and suffering in our lives by making mistakes (of ignorance). Why? This school lost its ways; people don't know why they are here, and how are they supposed to act. Why? A little intellect can be dangerous, and made us stray away.

[FallingLeaves]

oh don't mind me I was just saying something strange about how it may not be so good to be thinking in terms of good and bad

[linen53]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I believe that our thoughts, including emotions, create thought-forms, and those thought-forms materialize situations, that will cause more of those emotions.

If you pay attention to your dreams, you'll notice that usually anger and fear in your dreams degenerate in nightmares. It happens the same in awake reality, just at a slower pace.

As far as I "know", the stages each unit of awareness goes through its evolvement quest are: instincts, emotions, intellect, intuition, from inorganic matter, through plant, animal, man, and this physical universe is the training ground.

Man (using the word generically) mostly controls its instincts, is mostly controlled by emotions, started to develop an intellect, and in most cases has no intuition. There are similar distributions of some of those features in the populations of each one of those kingdoms too (inorganic, plant, animal, man).

We can see the same kind of progression in almost everything. An obvious example is man's life. With variations and overlaps of these stages: you get born with some instincts, they control you, as you age you start forming emotions, they control you, as you age more you start developing intellect, in some cases it controls you, very few reach the stage where they start developing intuition.

You don't get rid of emotions, as you don't get rid of instincts or intellect (in normal cases), but you learn to master them: instincts, emotions, intellect, eventually intuition.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not up (or in) there. I still get angry, very rarely fearful, probably I don't hate anybody (anymore), but I know what I do, and don't whine when I see consequences.

A favorite quote is

"A generation that hates war will not bring peace. A generation that loves peace will bring peace."

It is a matter of focus. There is an NLP technique in which a subject's resistance is overcome by giving suggestions in negative form:

You don't see an elephant in your mind! (and guess what you see in your mind: an elephant!)

I do get what you are saying and to a certain extent agree with you.

But it's my choice to be angry at a person who harms a child in such a way. I choose to be human at that moment. I will feel outrage and disgust at this low-life.

Now for the neighbor who picks the blossoms off my tomato plants I can ignore his petty attempts to agitate me. Like him? No. Ignore him, yes.