Is Jesus The Only Way?

[open2it]

" it is a SECRET that not even your own god is aware of !!!!"
IMO what he is saying is that because the Jews god is a man made according to man's own description it is nothing but a false god. Their god knows not of the true God because their god is made from their belief which has no knowledge of Truth in it.

"30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."
Jesus knew the manifestations/miracles were not a testimony to him but of God who is the manifestation. Jesus knew he himself by no works of his own created the miracles. The miracles were testimony that what he taught was true. IMO Herein lays the false belief that believing in the man Jesus himself is the salvation. His teaching of the truth, how God works, is the salvation.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
Jesus didn't ask people to believe in him but in the truth he taught and the miracles gave testimony to what he taught as being the truth. Jesus didn't need their giving his teaching credibility because he knew they couldn't even give him credence due to their lack of understanding. His miracles gave testimony and credence to his teaching. Their manmade religion could not disprove or approve of his teaching.

No angels or any has seen the spirit but we sure can see the testimony to it. What we call miracles or manifestations give testimony that the Spirit is real. We can't see that which creates but we can know how it creates and it is totally subjective to our direction.

There is no coincidence, lady luck, bad luck, meant to be, punishment or whatever label we want to give the things that happen in our lives. You reap what you sow plain and simple as that. The Spirit or God or Universal mind or whatever we choose to call it is all the same thing. We don't knee to understand how it creates. We only need know we can direct its total subjective actions. Once we know what the manna from heaven is and keep it in constant prayer then we can experience all that is God. God is all that is good and if what you believe in is otherwise then you will experience the bad.

Originally Posted by Ab Origine

Hi Folks..

Kjw;

No mate - I alreasy demonstrated -you cant pick and choose but must look at it ALL to see wht is really being said - for instance compare those bible quotes SIDE BY SIODE tot eh Judas quote where Christ says a SECRET about an UNKNOWN new realm and Spirit !!

See now..?....he tells the Jews they don't know His Fathe because they DONT ACTUALY KNOW IT AT ALL, - it IS a secret SEPERATE and entirely unknwn truth just as He blatantly said....read it ALL and keep the CONTEXT...

For example - read the ORIGINAL gospel of John and you will see the actual CREATION of your god yhvh - for it itself is NOT a god but merely an Angel and is itself created just like you and I are !! There is no mistake - He is speakin gof two entirely separate entities and I can and have shown us all multiple examples that prove that beyond any logical doubt at all.. You have been wholly deceived by that religion - there is a whole wealth of truth and knowledge that is absolutely forbidden to you BY that religion - they HAVE taken key s to truth and hid them from you (All) just as Christ openly warned they would, and worse, they have you brain washed completely, into blind single minded ignorance such that you wont even acknowledge or question anything at all...... Everything I present here makes absolute perfect sense, you know it does.... One day the penny will drop as they say - hopefully before that final day comes for you unprepared...

There are 0 originals in existence--Catholicism works remain, and the works that corrected their many errors= The New world translation. All protestant translations were done out of Catholicism translating. All who live by those errors will not be allowed into Gods kingdom. All who trust catholicism translatings eternal life is on the line. I would NEVER walk that path.

Originally Posted by Ab Origine

Hi Folks..

Kjw; Ah mate - perhaps you can explain that quote from the original scripture then ..??..



SECRETS HE revealed that He said directly neither man NOR the god above know ANYTHING about...An entirely UNKNOWN spiritual realm and an entirely UNKNOWN and SUPREME Spirit that He said explicitly your god and Angels have no idea about at all....your god IS YHVH - NAMED ITSELF to the Jews many times and places - yet CHRIST said, Our Father has NEVER been encountered by any Soul here and has NEVER been known by any given name !!!! Let it ink in....your gods truth is entirely incompatable and contradictory with all that Christ says - and that is because your god is NOT the Father, supreme Spirit that Christ alone now reveals..

And whats with the scriptural reference..??...I tell you its IRRELEVANT - please dont infer that Christ is speaking about yhvh there, because simply he is not, and there is NOTHING to even infer that at all except your own wishful thinking.. read it PROPERLY if you please.. John 17:1-6,26



So look PROPERLY Folks - HONESTLY - there is NOTHING to infer that He is addressing the "jewish god yhvh" - NOTHING AT ALL - He addresses a SPIRIT that He terms OUR FATHER that is all...NO connection to ANY Jewish god mentioned at all - and look here what He says.. - I have REVEALED you to these people He said !!! Let it sink in - see the implications .....

I have REVEALED the Father now, He says - understand then - until He came - this Father - MUST HAVE BEEN UNKNOWN - just as He said elsewhere - for NOW He says at the end I have REVEALED the Father to the people !!! Understand yet..?...That is NOT your god Yhvh - CAN NOT BE your god Yhvh because simply Yhvh had ALREADY BEEN FULLY REVEALED - always had been fully known for thousands of years already and is absolute core foundation of all their spiritual truth, they ALREDY are intimate with Yhvh and indeed have named it as said many times and places encountered it directly ALREADY - and yet here is Christ first telling us this true Divine Spirit is COMPLETELY UNKNOWN, has NEVER BEEN NAMED - a SECRET that not even those above are aware of - and now He says at the end that He has REVEALED IT fully for the people...!!

KEEP IT IN CONTEXT - don't bother with the selective quoting to bolster your own false beliefs - look at it ALL and look at it HIONESTLY to see what is actually being said and why !!! Lets not forget this bible verse either - finish it off properly if you insist :



Look again -the quotes you give just prove MY truth don't they..?...Look HONESTLY - see Christ tell you that the world DOES NOT KNOW MY FATHER - but - He has indeed REVELAED THE TRUTH and MADE HIM KNOWN !!!

See then - BEFORE CHRIST - my FATHER WAS UNKNOWN !!!! Just as I have told you - that CANNOT BE YHVH - because before Christ - YHVH IS ALREADY FULLY KNOWN !!!!! The truth the Jews already have is NOT this new unknown truth that Christ alone reveals !!! How many ways will He have to tell you (all) before the OBVIOUS truth dawns..??..

John 4:22-24 - needs to be expanded here to include the setting and CONTEXT so that we know what is happening, who is speaking to whom about what....Again - selective quoting is just not up to the task - you cant pick and choose as you see fit - Christ delivered a whole truth so if you really WANT that truth, then quit trying to ignore the parts you don't like and accept Him for all He says !!

Yes -selective quoting indeed - (purposeful) MISREPRESENTATION indeed - you should have started way before that - here :



I know its long - but I left the gaps so you can (all) see clearly....Hes at a SACRED SITE - a Holy Well... First a SAMARIAN woman speaks to Him - she assumes He is a Jew, they don't usually mingle or have any social dealings at all - CONTEXT all important !! Look He tells her, NO not a Jew - Im from a god you don't yet know He says but if you ask I will teach you He says !!

The woman is skeptical - you have nothing to offer she says - what "living water" (truth) do you have..??...She says HER water/truth is of JACOB and all that Yhvh malarkey - see what He says..?... Yes He says - drink THAT water you will STILL GO THIRSTY ( the truth is not truth, does not satisfy) - but CHRIST gives the LIVING water - living truth !!

The woman asks him for proof - so He tells her, her own life history - she is amazed and believes now He is a "prophet".. She STILL thinks He is a jew though with more Yhvh malarkey, so she says our tribe worship this JACOBS well and mountain, but you say we should go worship in Jerusalem (at the temple as the jews do) - but LOOK what CHRIST ACTUALLY SAYS !!

He tells her directly that a new time is upon them all where they should worship at NEITHER their sacred mountain nor their sacred temple !! BOTH AERE WRONG HE SAYS !!! (both have the wrong god !!)

He tells her she does not realise what she actually worships - THINK salvation comes from the Jewish one Yhvh - but then He tells her that is an error and that now is the time to worship the TRUE FATHER in SPIRIT and in its truth !!
(His teaching IS a direct communion Mind TO mind, SPIRIT to spirit - we BECOME IT - do you begin to see yet ?? )

The woman still doesn't believe Him - says she is waiting for the Messiah / Christ to come and reveal proper truth for them all - He says YES, IAM THE ONE YOU WAIT FOR !!

KEEP THE CONTEXT !!!! See again - there is NO CONNECTION AT ALL to any Jewish deity Yhvh !! NONE whatsoever - Christ ACTUALLY SAID they ALL HAVE IT WRONG when they worship that jewish god !! NEITHER the sacred mountain NOR the sacred temple are the abode of My Father !! He is found in SPIRIT - encountered DIRECTLY - and not found in the words of man or given by a priest intermediary... For those with ears to hear !!

John 5; 30 - yet again more selective quoting to try to bolster your position - but yet again as with your other two quotes above, this one also just strengthens my own position even more and proves your own to be entirely inaccurate - KEEP THE CONTEXT - read it PROPERLY - see what is happening....

The rabbis confront Him about the Sabbath, demand to know what authority He has...He replies thus - in full :



He tells them they have believed the prophet John the Baptist - but He has a truth far more significant to give He says.. First He says he doesn't NEED
their HUMAN approval for He is His own authority, from the FATHER who sent Him as opposed to ther god who gives THEM their authority...Understand - he is speaking about MIRACLES -telling them that HIS MIRACLES are HIS PROOF - the works Iam doing TESTIFY to Who Iam !!

LOOK CLOSELY - He says His works - His miracles are FROM THE FATHER (the priests can do no such miracles can they?) - He says the FATHER has testified for Him by these miracles, but they the priests DO NOT KNOW THE FATHER - they CANNOT HEAR HOS VOICE or see its form -cannot COMMUNE DIRECTLY just as Christ teaches - and so they do not know any Divine truth, nor are they willing to hear it !!

As I say - there is NOTHING there - yet again - to suggest or infer that Christ is speaking about the Jewish god yhvh - NOTHING AT ALL - in fact, EVERYTHING you present, just shows us clearly (if we are honest), that ACTUALLY Christ MUST be speaking about an ENTRIELY SEPERATE DEITY, as simply, every instance He tells them CLEARLY that their god is NOT His Father... That issue of MIRACVLES is crucial to understand...The priest CANNOT DO MIRACLES - they ask Him WHERE does He get HIS authority - from MY FATHER HE says - you DONT KNOW MY FATHER HE says - it is a SECRET that not even your own god is aware of !!!!


For these reasons they MURDERED HIM - He performed MIRACLES that no priest of Yhvh could ever possibly match !! They ask Him HOW can He do this - He tells them of a NEW and UNKNOWN legitmate Divine God - your god is an imposter He says !! they KNOW He is real as the MIRACLES prove it, just as Christ told them...So, under direct threat now, about to lose all station power and authority, they have a stark choice - murder Him to silence this new truth and cling desperately to their LESSER GOD Yhvh who Christ revealed fully AS AN IMPOSTER !!!!

0 doubt in all creation--The Israelites from Moses on up served the true living God=a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)-- I have studied Jesus for 50 years--He does NOT teach what you say.

[Spirited]

Older thread, but I've recently rejoined and just been looking through the talking points. To keep the post short, my direct answer to that question would be; Yes, I believe Jesus is the only way to God. ("I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father, except through me"). I am willing to put my trust in what Jesus said - right or wrong. No one can know anything for sure, many will claim they know everything but they really don't. Nor do I. But, I'll put my trust in what Jesus himself said, it's the best bet I got!

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Spirited

Older thread, but I've recently rejoined and just been looking through the talking points. To keep the post short, my direct answer to that question would be; Yes, I believe Jesus is the only way to God. ("I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father, except through me"). I am willing to put my trust in what Jesus said - right or wrong. No one can know anything for sure, many will claim they know everything but they really don't. Nor do I. But, I'll put my trust in what Jesus himself said, it's the best bet I got!

Hi Spirited, I do take the other side of this view as a Christian
I don't think it's wrong to believe he is the only way though. You are trusting him in your life and that's what counts

But there's alternative explanations for 'I am the way ... except through me'
1. Could Jesus be speaking in the Spirit, so it is the Holy Spirit speaking. This opens up interesting theological doors
2. There were many false Christs about each claiming to be the way (Simon Magus for one). It could be affirming only the true Christ is the way - for Christians that is. One facet of church history that's forgotten is how many people popped up claiming to be Christ, and many more claiming to represent him

It is true and I'll admit it, the early church did teach Jesus is the only way quite consistently and it's found in a few places in scripture (Acts, Paul). But can we be sure this goes back to Jesus or how did Jesus understand it?
There are words of Jesus that seem to contradict the only-way belief
So I feel it's valid to question and seek other explanations
This need not lead us to saying 'hey, anything goes, all religions are equal', we can still affirm the singular saving power of Christianity, just leaving the door ajar that other ways are likely possible, but for Christians Jesus is the only way. That sort of thing

[Spirited]

Hi David, thanks for the response!

The points you mention are fair and definitely interesting. I'll be honest and say I've never considered Jesus speaking in the Spirit in that statement which would definitely come with all sorts of other questions. My understanding of Jesus being the only way is linked just as much to salvation as it is to the things he spoke. I understand the sacrifice he made for us on the cross to be in exchange for our own sins, so that uniquely faith in him allows us to accept that free gift. This way of thinking would mean Jesus would be the only way to The Father/Kingdom/Heaven as it is through him we receive the redeeming gift. If we put Jesus aside and consider that it is something else that is the way to God, suddenly the cross means a lot less to me. Our debts are paid in the work of Jesus alone who said "It is finished" and that is another reason I feel this way.

There are of course many other parts of scripture which also point to Jesus being the way. Romans 10:9 comes to mind often "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

As you say though, ultimately, putting our trust in him is what counts :)

God bless.

Originally Posted by Spirited

Older thread, but I've recently rejoined and just been looking through the talking points. To keep the post short, my direct answer to that question would be; Yes, I believe Jesus is the only way to God. ("I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father, except through me"). I am willing to put my trust in what Jesus said - right or wrong. No one can know anything for sure, many will claim they know everything but they really don't. Nor do I. But, I'll put my trust in what Jesus himself said, it's the best bet I got!

Many are doing just that. Except they fail because they never get to the Father to accomplish this-John 4:22-24) daily. Jesus warned that they wouldn't even know him-John 15:20-21) Those who stop at Jesus, do not know the Father. All who know Jesus, knows the Father is the only true God, Jesus taught-John 17:1-6,26--so does Paul-1Cor 8:6---Trinity translations are filled with errors to mislead. those translations teach 2 different gods.

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

I still don't think he is the only way (personally, I think that there are as many ways to God as there are souls incarnated), but he is my way by choice. Earlier this year I felt more and more drawn to him. Like he wanted me to follow him again. And I want to follow him.

[sky]

Originally Posted by SeekerOfKnowledge

I still don't think he is the only way (personally, I think that there are as many ways to God as there are souls incarnated), but he is my way by choice. Earlier this year I felt more and more drawn to him. Like he wanted me to follow him again. And I want to follow him.

'Like he wanted me to follow him again. And I want to follow him.'


Self realization is better than being brainwashed
__________________

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Spirited

My understanding of Jesus being the only way is linked just as much to salvation as it is to the things he spoke. I understand the sacrifice he made for us on the cross to be in exchange for our own sins, so that uniquely faith in him allows us to accept that free gift. This way of thinking would mean Jesus would be the only way to The Father/Kingdom/Heaven as it is through him we receive the redeeming gift. If we put Jesus aside and consider that it is something else that is the way to God, suddenly the cross means a lot less to me. Our debts are paid in the work of Jesus alone who said "It is finished" and that is another reason I feel this way.

Thanks Spirited, good point
I tend to think of the cross for what it gives. it gives wonderful things, a path of healing and grace leading us toward God. it binds us together in his way. it's salvation for those that go there
What I recon is it's the Holy Spirit that actually saves which is part of the work of Jesus to fill us with. God's just wants a repentant heart or a loving one as our personal sacrifice to him, as he sacrificed himself to us. The atonement is fulfilled in our response to it and the gifts we receive from it which all together is what saves.
It's more than a theological transaction I guess is what I mean that ends up being over simplified by Christian statements of faith and creeds.

Other faiths may represent all this in other ways which is unique to them as Jesus is unique to us. Those who follow other faiths are not in Jesus and the cross doesn't apply to them as they were never called to be in him. That's a literal interpretation of Jesus anyway, I think Calvin suggested this, that only the called are saved.
But I don't think saved/unsaved directly relates to heaven/hell, God judges the heart and condition of the soul. A saved person isn't judged once the work of salvation is complete in them, an unsaved person is judged justly according to their life in whatever path they took
I mean a rose isn't less beautiful because other flowers exist
that's how I personally try to reconcile the problem anyway!