Find the cause of suffering

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

I would clarify that I believe the human brain creates the thoughts and therefore, eventually desires..but then we make them a living thing by identifying with them. So in that sense, we bring them to life or create them from what they exist as before we give them that reality.



I agree, I think you are talking about our human bodies though and I don't see myself as a human body. I am merged with one yes, but I will eventually leave the human body. We have desires because we have a animal body and have identified with it.



Someone who is said to be enlightened or liberated from their human mind and thoughts, like Buddha, has a different relationship with their thoughts and therefore desires than a normal person. So it's a bit complex. Like say you are right a liberated person had a desire to help others through teaching. Now that can be a huge ego thing, the desire to teach others what you believe, or it can be the work of a humble selfless person as well. It depends on what they have realized, what they are teaching and why and on and on... so really the word "desire" has many many meanings depending on a lot of factors.

I don't identify with an animal body so my desires don't come from there

[sky]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I think another way of looking at desires created from our DNA is to say that some come from subconscious. Some also come from our ignorance and some come from a place of confusion.
They all come forth though. They all arise from emptiness, it's just that they can come from the stress of a restless conditioned mind or from a clear still reflected mind. And everything in between but I don't think labeling them positive or negative is helpful. I think they are either mindful or not.

I was reading an article last week regarding tablets for depression and that Scientists have proven that they do actually work but the interesting part of the article for me was that people that have severe depression have no desires at all. That must be so difficult because it takes away the motivation to do anything to make your life a little more pleasant and to get well, so sad.

I see everything as negative/positive in the yin/yang way, you see it as mindful but then you must see un-mindfulness also to be able to see mindful.

Originally Posted by sky123

I don't identify with an animal body so my desires don't come from there

??
You mean the desire to eat when you are hungry, to drink when you are thirsty come from another source than your "animal" body?

If I were to slam a fork in your thigh over dinner. I bet your "animal" body would foster a myriad of desires and possible responses.

With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

I was reading an article last week regarding tablets for depression and that Scientists have proven that they do actually work but the interesting part of the article for me was that people that have severe depression have no desires at all. That must be so difficult because it takes away the motivation to do anything to make your life a little more pleasant and to get well, so sad.

I see everything as negative/positive in the yin/yang way, you see it as mindful but then you must see un-mindfulness also to be able to see mindful.

Well the press is like 'a new study says drugs work' but scientists talk about efficiancy, and the main point is the rate of response compared to the placebo came out between 30 and 50%, so actually, they work less than 1/2 of the time, and the research only accounted for response after 4 - 12 weeks. The problems with this class of drugs arise in the initial week or two when adverse affects like rage and suidical ideation can occur, and after long term use particularly at high doses.

We already knew the drugs can be effective in the immediate term in alleviating major symptoms (though quite often not and regularly making them worse), so the 'new study' didn't actually find anything out. It basically only collated all the previous evidence (reviewed research papers between 1991 and 2007) in a large meta study. It didn't include any research done in the last decade at all.

These are the issues I can see just at a glance, but I'm pretty sure there would be more if these can be identified at a glance.

[sky]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

??
You mean the desire to eat when you are hungry, to drink when you are thirsty come from another source than your "animal" body?

If I were to slam a fork in your thigh over dinner. I bet your "animal" body would foster a myriad of desires and possible responses.

With Love
Eelco

I have a Human Body not an animal body, we evolved remember

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by sky123

I was reading an article last week regarding tablets for depression and that Scientists have proven that they do actually work but the interesting part of the article for me was that people that have severe depression have no desires at all. That must be so difficult because it takes away the motivation to do anything to make your life a little more pleasant and to get well, so sad.

I see everything as negative/positive in the yin/yang way, you see it as mindful but then you must see un-mindfulness also to be able to see mindful.

Funny thing, I just read a similar article yesterday about the same.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yes 'stress' is a good way of indicating that state we are calling suffering. Indeed suffering is far lessened when we stay calm compared to when we react with so much stressful agitation to the same given lived experience. That's basically how meditation goes, staying in that balanced, calm place regardless of the sorts of experience we have.

This is the way in which the thread isn't so much oriented on coming up with the answer, but rather, bringing about a sort of curious interest in what's going on with ourselves. You see, it's very easy for me to say what the cause is, but much harder for me to keep some aspect of attention with that calm, balanced space.

I've never been drawn to sitting meditation but I am drawn to waking meditation. I am finding that I am getting better at staying with the stresses that arise in the mind without have to sit and do so.
It's a real battle but there is so much hidden there in that stress within.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Funny thing, I just read a similar article yesterday about the same.

It seems to have been conducted over a period of 7 years and it must give some kind of hope to sufferers, hopefully.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I've never been drawn to sitting meditation but I am drawn to waking meditation. I am finding that I am getting better at staying with the stresses that arise in the mind without have to sit and do so.
It's a real battle but there is so much hidden there in that stress within.

Like you and many I am not a sitter but do enjoy a walking meditation. I can meditate anywhere and anytime it's just natural like breathing to me.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

It seems to have been conducted over a period of 7 years and it must give some kind of hope to sufferers, hopefully.

I think it was a review of literature published between '91 and 2007 and seems to be biased in favour of the biomedical approach to mental health, and really, it's a ridiculous conclusion to say 'proof drugs work' even by the findings of this study, and also because it's so well established that there are environmental determinants of mental illness, but people think these 'a new study says...' press stories actually represent the research, but really, it doesn't.