Time Space and Reality

[Kisen]

Originally Posted by organic born

I easily agree. This seems to be a habit with all things not just with aliens. Religions act like the "truth" is settled; science is generally sold as a collection of absolutes, until another competing absolute bumps the earlier versions, with that one standing until it's bumped yet again; and the New Age is a huge collection of absolutes (much the way religion has traditionally been) with competing "ideas" being the thing, while "functionality" is being ignored and dispensed with.

If we each are being honest with ourselves we'll need to fully admit that we simply don't know. We are free to bounce around 'ideas' without restriction or restraint, but be clear these are simply 'ideas' and not even remotely a resolution to anything.

In the end, most (if not all) groups including science are based on beliefs, each having a different way of expressing themselves.

Better to just experience and stay in the middle.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Kisen

In the end, most (if not all) groups including science are based on beliefs, each having a different way of expressing themselves.

While none are really sure of what they're saying. Seriously, dig into any of them, with an eye toward resolution, and none will come close to addressing this end. They are all guessing, speculating, projecting-hopeful-expectations, but not a one is capable of presenting us with a sound understanding of what it is to be human, and/or what this physical world says about our place in this context. Science goes further than most by breaking-down the components into observable bits and pieces, and reformats them into usable toys that we play with. But even science (as you drift to the cutting edge) is at a loss as to what is truly going on. Because we use "senses" to perceive with we are only exposed to the simplest of processes. My favorite analogy is if you draw a line from L.A. to New York representing the energy signatures that science is speculating on so far, our ability to perceive this energy with our senses would only cover about an inch or two of that line. The rest is outside of our ability to relate to.

Now I don't see this as a bad thing. I tend to celebrate the fact that there is so little known. We have been raised in cultures that tend to suggest that we're at the top of our game (regardless of what time period that exists at the moment). When really this is a bunch of hooey. Your guess is as good as anyone else's, which suggest that there's no need to adhere to any of these guesses. We don't need a belief structure because there's none to be found that encompasses "what is". There are only those that tend to satisfy a most surface encounter with a version of the physical that's derived through our "senses".

This doesn't mean that we can simply believe in "anything". But what it does suggest is that there's really no advantage to being overly-drawn into any single belief structure... period. At our root we are essentially free agents when it comes to identity and attachment. The people that we've historically reference as "genius" barely know much more about what's going on as you or I do.

Originally Posted by Kisen

Better to just experience and stay in the middle.

There is no middle. In order for there to be a middle we would need to grant credence to one side in relation to the other. But when we're guessing, in our essentially blind sort of way, how could we do so while keeping a straight face? "Freedom" is the knowing that we simply don't know, and then relaxing to the fact that that's comfortably "okay". This being the case we can't then "build" a belief structure out of a bunch of unknowns, nor do we need to take serious someone else's bunch of unknowns. We are then free to investigate and play with our thoughts and associations without feeling that there's something to prove.

[Kisen]

Originally Posted by organic born

While none are really sure of what they're saying. Seriously, dig into any of them, with an eye toward resolution, and none will come close to addressing this end. They are all guessing, speculating, projecting-hopeful-expectations, but not a one is capable of presenting us with a sound understanding of what it is to be human, and/or what this physical world says about our place in this context. Science goes further than most by breaking-down the components into observable bits and pieces, and reformats them into usable toys that we play with. But even science (as you drift to the cutting edge) is at a loss as to what is truly going on. Because we use "senses" to perceive with we are only exposed to the simplest of processes. My favorite analogy is if you draw a line from L.A. to New York representing the energy signatures that science is speculating on so far, our ability to perceive this energy with our senses would only cover about an inch or two of that line. The rest is outside of our ability to relate to.

Now I don't see this as a bad thing. I tend to celebrate the fact that there is so little known. We have been raised in cultures that tend to suggest that we're at the top of our game (regardless of what time period that exists at the moment). When really this is a bunch of hooey. Your guess is as good as anyone else's, which suggest that there's no need to adhere to any of these guesses. We don't need a belief structure because there's none to be found that encompasses "what is". There are only those that tend to satisfy a most surface encounter with a version of the physical that's derived through our "senses".

This doesn't mean that we can simply believe in "anything". But what it does suggest is that there's really no advantage to being overly-drawn into any single belief structure... period. At our root we are essentially free agents when it comes to identity and attachment. The people that we've historically reference as "genius" barely know much more about what's going on as you or I do.


There is no middle. In order for there to be a middle we would need to grant credence to one side in relation to the other. But when we're guessing, in our essentially blind sort of way, how could we do so while keeping a straight face? "Freedom" is the knowing that we simply don't know, and then relaxing to the fact that that's comfortably "okay". This being the case we can't then "build" a belief structure out of a bunch of unknowns, nor do we need to take serious someone else's bunch of unknowns. We are then free to investigate and play with our thoughts and associations without feeling that there's something to prove.

What I meant by "middle" was "I do not know". Sorry, I wasn't clear on that, I do not agree on having beliefs, even though bias is hard to escape.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Kisen

What I meant by "middle" was "I do not know". Sorry, I wasn't clear on that, I do not agree on having beliefs, even though bias is hard to escape.

No problem at all. I tend to take posts like yours and write little essays for myself in relation to such thoughts. It may look like I'm attempting to 'correct' what you said but I'm mostly just fleshing-out how I'm experiencing in relation to such things.

I do like your distinction between beliefs and bias. Though I suspect they may be cousins in terms of reality interpretation. To a very large degree both belief and bias are generally a necessity of acculturated navigation. I suspect that in the past, before civilizations emerged, that much of our bonding was done in relation to nature and functional demands. But with the advent of cultures we traded such things for thinking in relation to thought. We distanced ourselves from our natural foundations and built a dream that we share of what things look like in general. Once we did so we let-go of our natural tether and now tend to drift around in a world full of mentally derived images. We are now mistaking the dreams, that we come up with, as our primary means for communication.

So when we're looking to science, religion or what's been considered the New Age, we are looking more at the dreaming of individuals that form groups, and that then tend to focus on living in creatively-designed ways. When we stand back from this process and look without such focused expectations then the volume of noise that comes with such associations begin appearing more obvious.

And this is what I'm focused on at the moment. I'm barely interacting with the "outside" world of associations and am learning to re-relate to nature through my small farm. The natural rhythm of seasons and plants (from seeds to harvest) and of animals and their intrinsic needs tends to highlight the contrast between the natural world, as it is, and the mentally created version that people come up with. This is the best class in functional spirituality that I've participated in so far. To quiet ones mind and to blend with such rhythms provides a natural respect for the biology of integrative living. :)

[catsnrabbits]

Originally Posted by organic born

When we stand back from this process and look without such focused expectations then the volume of noise that comes with such associations begin appearing more obvious.

If I stand further back, the noise might combine with a bigger orchestra that imparts purpose.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by catsnrabbits

If I stand further back, the noise might combine with a bigger orchestra that imparts purpose.

The term "purpose" is a pretty loaded word.

Do you view 'purpose' as an individual thing (in response to the conditions of an individual lifetime) or as a far reaching suggestion that it's a formula-of-being that's applicable to all in the same way?

[RussellLewis]

Nice one organic born!