What will happen to the materialistic non-believers?

Originally Posted by Winter Song

The same thing will happen to them that happens to "spiritual" people: they will shed their bodies, merge back into the greater parts of their souls that are their higher selves, and re-emerge to take on other bodies, so they can experience a different set of limitations.

If the challenge the soul agreed to in a given lifetime was for their avatar to awaken, or at least to develop some sort of connection to its source, and it didn't, the soul will understand why when it reviews the completed experience. When it chooses another avatar and picks up that particular challenge again, it will do so with a clearer understanding of its own blindness, and how powerful the illusion of material reality, and of separation, is when embodied.

Of course, this is assuming that the soul didn't come here specifically to have the experience of profound disconnection from itself and its source, which is an experience it can only have within the limitations of a physical body. What is it like to be cut off from one's true nature, and to completely deny your own existence? How do you find peace, connect with others, and create meaning in a reality where you, and everyone you love, are nothing more than sentient hunks of meat who will soon cease to exist?

What insights could the soul take from that experience of total disconnection that would be useful to it, and would assist in its development? It sounds like an interesting challenge, and something worth trying, at least to me.

There is no punishment for the materialists, any more than there is punishment when you play a game and get "killed" before succeeding at the game's objective. You don't beat yourself up; you recognize mistakes you made and difficulties you didn't anticipate, and go back to try it again, this time with better knowledge of how to navigate that particular level of the game. Get "killed" again, and you go back for another round, over and over, until you finally master that level of the game and not only survive every round, but pick up all the treasures lying around for you to claim.

Once you've mastered that level, you're then ready to move on to the next level, with even more complicated challenges. But the soul has--literally--all the time in the world to keep playing round after round of the game, both to experience limitation in countless forms, and to eventually master the game so thoroughly it has no need or desire to play it any more. Why would it, as an immortal consciousness playing one fleeting round of a game, need to be punished for not "winning" a particular round? It makes no sense. Just move on to the next round!

Hi WS

:Smile:

Are you suggesting the Soul (or whatever name we call it) gets more and more skilled each time? And given the concept of "amnesia", how does the Soul ensure that it doesn't just keep losing every time, or even knows what it learnt (as it's forgotten right?)

Do you think most people come here for love, peace, connectedness - or are there people who just come to cause negativity?

Avatar - does this mean dreamed, illusive? If this is your knowing, does your reality feel different?

I remember I had daily insights at one point (a decade ago) but I was insolent and yelled I didn't want them anymore. They stopped. I regret that. Looking forward to your experiences.

JL

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by janielee

Are you suggesting the Soul (or whatever name we call it) gets more and more skilled each time? And given the concept of "amnesia", how does the Soul ensure that it doesn't just keep losing every time, or even knows what it learnt (as it's forgotten right?)

A couple of ideas from Theosophical teachings:

Regarding the concept of amnesia, the Soul incarnates through a personality and the personality experiences life on Earth. After physical death the personality gradually dies, but the lessons learned are absorbed by the Soul. The next personality in the next incarnation may have no memory of the previous personality, but the lessons learned have been retained within Soul consciousness.

Without getting bogged down in esoteric technicalities, within the Soul consciousness are what are termed permanent atoms. These are for the physical, emotional and mental bodies. These permanent atoms are like the blueprint for our mental, emotional and physical vehicles and they reflect our development up to the present point, as they are modified with each incarnation.

This does not necessarily mean that each incarnation begins exactly where the previous incarnation left off. It may be that in one incarnation we work on developing certain qualities, then in the next we work with completely different qualities. But our level of development is recorded in these blueprints or permanent atoms.

As always, this is theory, but it does make sense.

Peace.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Perhaps some of us do not share your beliefs in science, and we question the so-called facts. There is more to a human being than genetics.

Hardwiring suggests that certain processes of the brain are unalterable, whereas new discoveries in neuroplasticity suggest that the brain is far more malleable and can transform itself in response to experience.

The theories of science are continually changing, and that which is considered true today may be rejected tomorrow. So instead of stating all your assertions as if they are incontrovertible facts, why not acknowledge that they are simply current scientific theory which may well change over time.

Peace.

Well put.

Not only this, but if you research it and look at scientists like Gregg Braden, you will come to realise that it is not all about the mind/brain.

The heart, itself has its own "brain" composed of actual brain cells which generates an electromagnetic field like a torus. The heart itself can "think" and receive information totally independent from the brain, but can also relate messages TO the brain...and it is at this level of awareness, where spiritual experiences are to be had, yet it also transcends the physical aspects of the body...The biochemical processes are merely the reactive agent.

Also, even though we are born with certain DNA that cannot be changed, like those determining our physical characteristics, up to 90℅ of our DNA is what is called "junk DNA" meaning that scientists don't have a clue what it does!

Some of it could be terrestrial, some extraterrestrial, some could encode for the ability to realise Self/God...who knows what this "junk DNA" does? and yet, scientists will all agree that throughout one's lifetime, certain genes get expressed "switched on" and certain genes get repressed "switched off" and so, until they have mapped all of that "junk DNA" and understand what it does...until they work out how DNA can multistrand to form "Super helices" etc, science practically knows squat.

I mean, they just discovered that the length of telomeres contributes to longevity...

Science still has a long way to go.

Originally Posted by iamthat

A couple of ideas from Theosophical teachings:

Regarding the concept of amnesia, the Soul incarnates through a personality and the personality experiences life on Earth. After physical death the personality gradually dies, but the lessons learned are absorbed by the Soul. The next personality in the next incarnation may have no memory of the previous personality, but the lessons learned have been retained within Soul consciousness.

Without getting bogged down in esoteric technicalities, within the Soul consciousness are what are termed permanent atoms. These are for the physical, emotional and mental bodies. These permanent atoms are like the blueprint for our mental, emotional and physical vehicles and they reflect our development up to the present point, as they are modified with each incarnation.

This does not necessarily mean that each incarnation begins exactly where the previous incarnation left off. It may be that in one incarnation we work on developing certain qualities, then in the next we work with completely different qualities. But our level of development is recorded in these blueprints or permanent atoms.

As always, this is theory, but it does make sense.

Peace.

Thank you for that offering, iamthat I appreciate it

I'm most interested in how people know these things for themself (not through astral projection, dreaming, hallucination, channelling etc.) but as direct realized knowing.

I deeply appreciate you, and everything you offer here on these forums and life.

Bless.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by janielee

Thank you for that offering, iamthat I appreciate it

I'm most interested in how people know these things for themself (not through astral projection, dreaming, hallucination, channelling etc.) but as direct realized knowing.

I deeply appreciate you, and everything you offer here on these forums and life.

Bless.

Thanks JL. I appreciate your appreciation.

Yes, in the absence of direct realised knowing then we have to take a certain amount on trust. I read a lot and I try to use my discernment, and go with what intuitively makes sense. But I am aware that when I die I may discover that I was completely wrong about everything. Such is life.

Peace.

[SriHari]

I tend to fall back on my education in ancient Vedic wisdom when being confronted with individuals who are vigorously Atheist and/or Nihilistic in their views.

I add in a measure of "Conservation of Energy" theory, that the spark of the Divine that creates each lifeform on a journey to, and beyond 'Human' sentience - can neither be (re)created or destroyed, only changed, so in Vedic and subsequent Buddhist traditions, the 'Soul' manifests itself over and over with incarnations (Samsara, aka Wheel of Rebirth) and as such earns Karmas and learns vital lessons with each life lived.

In the West, a term has become popular in eclectic wisdom circles, and that is that of "Young Soul". It is on point for such individuals.

Wanton materialism, narcissism, and an attitude of "Do what you want, when you want to do it" without regard for consequences, usually accompanies the views of Atheism and Nihilism. Young souls learn tough lessons, else they live entitled lives and seem to have it easy, yet that educational and actionable Karma will always balance the equation, often in the forthcoming incarnations, if not Sanchit Karma which is almost immediate.

A great topic thread.
What are your thoughts and opinions on this..?
Have you also heard the term "Old Soul"..??

Blessings to all,

Sri Harishankar Vedartham

[running]

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Hey,

What do you think will happen after death to the materialistic people (convinced non-believers) that were narrow-minded, skeptic and ignorant all their life and neglected and denied the existence of the spirit and the afterlife? (claiming death being the ultimate end, that there is nothing beyond death, because they did not remember before being born and that the spirit concept was invented by humans, or that NDE are brain hallucinations)

Will it be their spirit that will judge them after their physical death? Does the person get to be punished?

does it require belief to breath air? do only people you think are worthy of waking in the morning become awoke? does the earth rotate around the sun because of enough belief from the believers of it doing so? was the earth previously flat because nobody yet imagined it round? is the sun hot because we believe it is? the sky blue because of peoples belief? am i 6' 3'' because i imagine i am?

[JustBe]

The same thing happens to them as you and all life, through the continuum as life is and continues. There is no seperation or mind that governs the spirit world, So all questions asked is the minds seperation wanting to know how to end that view within itself.

The passing through stages are like life itself, a temporary changing view and awareness,that opens everything where division of itself has been, in this physical realm. Any remnants unresolved are obtained through the passing through stages. The physical ceases to be, that piece now integrated into wholeness once more. The wheel of life continues to turn.

So be not the judge of any life as it is, because as a whole everything created comes through from everything created as a whole as life is. We may not see all contributing factors, but we can know and be aware that each piece is a reflection of its conditioned seperation that is goverened by all life as one already in creation and it’s wholeness as we come to know our spirit complete.

[running]

Originally Posted by SriHari

I tend to fall back on my education in ancient Vedic wisdom when being confronted with individuals who are vigorously Atheist and/or Nihilistic in their views.

I add in a measure of "Conservation of Energy" theory, that the spark of the Divine that creates each lifeform on a journey to, and beyond 'Human' sentience - can neither be (re)created or destroyed, only changed, so in Vedic and subsequent Buddhist traditions, the 'Soul' manifests itself over and over with incarnations (Samsara, aka Wheel of Rebirth) and as such earns Karmas and learns vital lessons with each life lived.

In the West, a term has become popular in eclectic wisdom circles, and that is that of "Young Soul". It is on point for such individuals.

Wanton materialism, narcissism, and an attitude of "Do what you want, when you want to do it" without regard for consequences, usually accompanies the views of Atheism and Nihilism. Young souls learn tough lessons, else they live entitled lives and seem to have it easy, yet that educational and actionable Karma will always balance the equation, often in the forthcoming incarnations, if not Sanchit Karma which is almost immediate.

A great topic thread.
What are your thoughts and opinions on this..?
Have you also heard the term "Old Soul"..??

Blessings to all,

Sri Harishankar Vedartham

what is the nature of bliss? what is the nature of silence? in what ways can one open to such phenomena? what is the experince for one in bliss and silence? in what ways does the pheomena of such have on the emotional body? in what ways does the experience of such have on the mind? is the experince based upon belief? is it limit itself per specific ideals or cultures? does it require any paritucular knowledge? is it belief that creates such a pheomena?

[SriHari]

Originally Posted by running

what is the nature of bliss? what is the nature of silence? in what ways can one open to such phenomena? what is the experince for one in bliss and silence? in what ways does the pheomena of such have on the emotional body? in what ways does the experience of such have on the mind? is the experince based upon belief? is it limit itself per specific ideals or cultures? does it require any paritucular knowledge? is it belief that creates such a pheomena?

Cultivated Mindfulness 🙏

Blessings,
Sri Hari