How does one follow Christianity and not believe in the dogma

[Lightspirit]

Originally Posted by New Rage Guru

HaHaHaHaHaHa....

And how does one follow Christianity and not believe in the dogma; you can't...Sorry but Christians believe that JC is Lord and saviour. If you do not believe this you go to hell. Actually; even if you do believe this...you can still go to hell.

Jesus can still be relevent but you can throw out most of the other biblical ****!

actualy dogma is a name I never use or look up. i was hoping someone would get a laugh out of that. One cannot take ones self to seriously.
there are lots of funny things about christianity. it keeps me amused. also lots of good things

I love God, and Jesus Christ. I am a Christian who also does not believe in the dogma and man made hell fire and brimstone crud. Love God above all else, and love thy neighbor...Period..

I do not believe that God is some horrible, angry, sadistic God. God is all loving...Things may happen in our lives that may or may not test our faith, or wonder how God could let those things happen. But I believe that it is a matter of perspective. We see a little piece of the puzzle, whereas God See's the whole picture.

Sorry went off on a major ramble lol...

Peace

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Guard

I have beena Christian since I was a child. For the life of me, I have not related to the concept of hell, eternal punishment, etc. This sound s alot like early greek/pagan religions that were implemented into Christianity for the sake of fear/control.

How can a glorious, loving, and redeeming God ever submit any soul to such endless torture? And what is gained from such torture? God gains nothing from it.

The Greek word usually translated as Hell is Gehenna. This is the name of a valley near Jerusalem which in Jesus' time was used as a place to dispose of trash and garbage. This also illustrates the purpose of Hell. God created the universe perfect but gave some of his creatures free will so that they could choose whether or not to obey him. Some chose to disobey and as a result sin and imperfection entered into creation. Hell was created to serve as a garbage dump where all sin could be placed to remove it from the rest of creation.

Also, why would God create angels sinless and not have to earn salvation...But create man fallen from birth and have to earn it? Also seems as God could favor some over others. Like lucky me for being born in US instead of India in which my journey would be 1000 times harder.

Both angels and humans were created sinless but they were given free will so that they could choose whether or not to obey God.


Some of the angels rebelled and decided to follow Satan. Hell was orginally created for them.

Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matthew 25:41 ESV

The first humans were created sinless but like the evil angels they chose to disobey God and one of the results of their sin is that their descendants are born with a tendency to sin. God sent Jesus into the world to make a way we can be saved from our sins but those who reject this salvation will share the fate of the angels who rebelled.

So ultimately, I love God, relate to Jesus more than anyone, but can never accept these hellish dogmatci views hich depict God worse than any human ever to live. Without using a 'get off the hook without thinking" scritpure...Answer with your own heart and from love and tell me how you feel.

Jesus himself taught that Hell is real. You are contradicting yourself is you claim to believe him and at the same time refuse to believe in the existence of Hell.

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by Guard

I have beena Christian since I was a child. For the life of me, I have not related to the concept of hell, eternal punishment, etc. This sound s alot like early greek/pagan religions that were implemented into Christianity for the sake of fear/control.

How can a glorious, loving, and redeeming God ever submit any soul to such endless torture? And what is gained from such torture? God gains nothing from it.

Also, why would God create angels sinless and not have to earn salvation...But create man fallen from birth and have to earn it? Also seems as God could favor some over others. Like lucky me for being born in US instead of India in which my journey would be 1000 times harder.

So ultimately, I love God, relate to Jesus more than anyone, but can never accept these hellish dogmatci views hich depict God worse than any human ever to live. Without using a 'get off the hook without thinking" scritpure...Answer with your own heart and from love and tell me how you feel.

Hi Guard,
I can relate only too well. I'm trying to stir up enough confidence in myself & my perspective, to not feel put down when others try to tell me that I'm struggling with my beliefs of the church or if I don't believe in Jesus I'll go to hell. I agreed with my husband to continue raising our children going to church, but I try to teach my kids other perspectives. It's challenging & I hope that everyone turns out alright.

Obviously, we experience good or bad consequences according to our choices.
Yet, a loving God wouldn't "kick us while we're down" which is implied by the belief that God punishes us.
Also, the human sacrifice of Jesus is required for us to be saved & one with God? What??? Saved from what? Isn't God experienced personally within?
Still... the belief in a Savior, that someone higher than ourselves can help us is spiritually inspiring & uplifting!
The higher truth is that spirituality & God is not found "out there" but within us. Most struggle in believing in themselves enough to do that... so we tend to lean on others (or other beliefs) for inspiration. And although, we do get spiritual help from those in body & spirit, our emotional & spiritual well being is ultimately up to us.

I know you didn't want any scriptures quoted, so I respect that. But I'll tell you, that as I learn different ways of defining Christian terms, I'm learning to appreciate scripture parables in new, more beautiful ways!

SEARCH GOOGLE FOR '23 Miniuts in Hell' IT WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS

Jesus talkes more about Hell in the bible than he does about heaven. Its such a bad place that he said its better to cut off tyour own hand or gouge out your eye if it meant not going there.

Essentialy, we all deserve Hell (even angels can fall too, about a third of them were banished with Satan) God cannot be 'holy' if He does not punish the wicked. the Good News is that God loved the world so much that He sent His only beggoten Son, that whoever believes in Him would not perish but inherit eternal life.

What an amazing act of love! Everyone can go to heaven all you have to do is believe in Jesus, believe He rose from the dead and ask His forgiveness for your mistakes.

Hell was never meant for humans, the bible says it was a place created for all the angels of satan that rebelled against God. bear in mind that God wants no one to go there, He loves us all too much. However God is love and if a person has never had the gospel preached to them or never had an opportunity to come to Christ, I think the Father would prevent them from going to Hell.

there was a christian man who had a vision of hell (look into it, he has many vis online and a book) Its called 23 Miniuts in Hell. It will answer many if not all your questions

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by grue21

What an amazing act of love! Everyone can go to heaven all you have to do is believe in Jesus, believe He rose from the dead and ask His forgiveness for your mistakes....We all deserve hell...

Well, you and I will have to part ways here.
As a lover of Jesus and a bigger lover of my Holy Father the statement is incongruous to the very Nature of God, Who is Love.

What you are saying then is so if being just 'human' and having doubt in Jesus - that then our Loving Father sends us to hell - eternal or not - is
simply preposterous and it reveals to me you may be a 'book learner' - rather than a direct experiencer - intimate, up close and personal with
Our Lord, God Almighty...and believe in a fear based system - which was a man made concoction from his primitive interpretations - bless his primitive little mind.

I also used to think this way - and I am a born again, tongue talking, Holy Spirit filled, healing lover of Christ and seeker of the Kingdom of Heaven within.

Quote all you may from the Bible - sorry - I don't believe it - this burning hell for God's beloved children - nope, He just isn't that.

I may never open you to this realisation - but hopefully God Himself will show you this as He did me...that He is not what is portrayed about Him in that book.
(I say 'Him' because it is easy.)

I am a defender of my Beloved Father - not of that Bible written by men.
This was to offer another view to those reading, mostly.

I know you are well intentioned and are a good person.

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Well, you and I will have to part ways here.
As a lover of Jesus and a bigger lover of my Holy Father the statement is incongruous to the very Nature of God, Who is Love.

What you are saying then is so if being just 'human' and having doubt in Jesus - that then our Loving Father sends us to hell - eternal or not - is
simply preposterous and it reveals to me you may be a 'book learner' - rather than a direct experiencer - intimate, up close and personal with
Our Lord, God Almighty...and believe in a fear based system - which was a man made concoction from his primitive interpretations - bless his primitive little mind.

I also used to think this way - and I am a born again, tongue talking, Holy Spirit filled, healing lover of Christ and seeker of the Kingdom of Heaven within.

Quote all you may from the Bible - sorry - I don't believe it - this burning hell for God's beloved children - nope, He just isn't that.

I may never open you to this realisation - but hopefully God Himself will show you this as He did me...that He is not what is portrayed about Him in that book.
(I say 'Him' because it is easy.)

I am a defender of my Beloved Father - not of that Bible written by men.
This was to offer another view to those reading, mostly.

I know you are well intentioned and are a good person.

pay attention to what she says...

[Miss Hepburn]

By the way, Shabda - are you married?

Personally speaking, I think Jesus can be a real good Spirit Friend even if you don't read that really old book that people living all that time ago wrote which of course was revised by King James a long time later. if we look past all the literature and see Jesus for his ideals of compassion and love, his principles.

Then we soon see that plagues of frogs and killing all the first borns are not really what he was about. I am ostensibly a pagan , but i have seen Jesus in meditations and he has embodied the principles of both Love and compassion. Does this mean it's not the real Jesus? Does this meanIi have no business talking with him as i am a Pagan?

I think not, because he is the embodiement of the values I hold dear.

As ever just a personal slant on this.

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

By the way, Shabda - are you married?

yes i am still, though ive begun divorce proceedings, it isnt over until i get that final paper signed by the judge, i happen to hold the vows i made in a very serious manner, though unfortunately, others dont...i roll with the punches, and ive taken quite a few in my day...