Taking refuge

[Gem]

Seeing that a person only needs to know what taking refuge is if they are actually going to take refuge, I won't go into all that.

I'm more concerned with what is pertinent to thread participants, and how that relates to refuge. If you are reading in this section, you must be interested in Dhamma (the teachings of Buddhism). Though we are not a community of monks, we are the community or sangha that make this place what it is.

There are conditions a place must provide to be worthy of being regarded as a refuge. To be worth taking refuge in. Primarily, it must be safe, which is to say, free of abuses, insults, denigration and so forth. No one would take refuge in a place where that occurs, and we couldn't call such a place a refuge.

I suggest that taking refuge is essentially an act of trust, to have faith that the people who make up the refuge place will be kind, considerate and care for each other's well-being. We'd call this 'loving kindness' in Buddhist terminology, which implies our good-will.

This brings up ethical considerations, which are pretty simple on the surface of it - don't kill, lie, steal, take advantage and so on - but this needs to be coherently understood beyond the superficial. 'Good conduct' needs to arise from wisdom and understanding, and not out of mere obedience to moral rules. There are those who obey out of blind faith, fear of kamma or the wrath of God... but as I like to say, 'obedience is unethical'.

In this way, refuge and morality start to fit together. A refuge demands ethical conditions, so in Buddhist formalities, taking refuge and vows of morality go hand in hand. We are not undertaking the formalities here, but the reasoning behind the formality is plausible, it adds up and makes sense - albeit informally.

[BlueSky]

Taking refuge to me is taking refuge in The Buddha, not here. That's too much to ask.
It is as you say an act of trust and faith but in The Buddha context that is placing trust in his teachings to the point where faith is no longer needed.

[sky]

The act of going for refuge marks the point where one commits oneself to taking the Dhamma, or the Buddha's teaching, as the primary guide to one's life. To understand why this commitment is called a "refuge," it's helpful to look at the history of the custom.

In pre-Buddhist India, going for refuge meant proclaiming one's allegiance to a patron — a powerful person or god — submitting to the patron's directives in hopes of receiving protection from danger in return. In the early years of the Buddha's teaching career, his new followers adopted this custom to express their allegiance to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, but in the Buddhist context this custom took on a new meaning.

Buddhism is not a theistic religion — the Buddha is not a god — and so a person taking refuge in the Buddhist sense is not asking for the Buddha personally to intervene to provide protection. Still, one of the Buddha's central teachings is that human life is fraught with dangers — from greed, anger, and delusion — and so the concept of refuge is central to the path of practice, in that the practice is aimed at gaining release from those dangers. Because the mind is the source both of the dangers and of release, there is a need for two levels of refuge: external refuges, which provide models and guidelines so that we can identify which qualities in the mind lead to danger and which to release; and internal refuges, i.e., the qualities leading to release that we develop in our own mind in imitation of our external models. The internal level is where true refuge is found.

Although the tradition of going to refuge is an ancient practice, it is still relevant for our own practice today, for we are faced with the same internal dangers that faced people in the Buddha's time. We still need the same protection as they. When a Buddhist takes refuge, it is essentially an act of taking refuge in the doctrine of karma: It's an act of submission in that one is committed to living in line with the principle that actions based on skillful intentions lead to happiness, while actions based on unskillful intentions lead to suffering; it's an act of claiming protection in that, by following the teaching, one hopes to avoid the misfortunes that bad karma engenders. To take refuge in this way ultimately means to take refuge in the quality of our own intentions, for that's where the essence of karma lies.

The refuges in Buddhism — both on the internal and on the external levels — are the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, also known as the Triple Gem. They are called gems both because they are valuable and because, in ancient times, gems were believed to have protective powers. The Triple Gem outdoes other gems in this respect because its protective powers can be put to the test and can lead further than those of any physical gem, all the way to absolute freedom from the uncertainties of the realm of aging, illness, and death.

The Buddha, on the external level, refers to Siddhattha Gotama, the Indian prince who renounced his royal titles and went into the forest, meditating until he ultimately gained Awakening. To take refuge in the Buddha means, not taking refuge in him as a person, but taking refuge in the fact of his Awakening: placing trust in the belief that he did awaken to the truth, that he did so by developing qualities that we too can develop, and that the truths to which he awoke provide the best perspective for the conduct of our life.

The Dhamma, on the external level, refers to the path of practice the Buddha taught to this followers. This, in turn, is divided into three levels: the words of his teachings, the act of putting those teachings into practice, and the attainment of Awakening as the result of that practice. This three-way division of the word "Dhamma" acts as a map showing how to take the external refuges and make them internal: learning about the teachings, using them to develop the qualities that the Buddha himself used to attain Awakening, and then realizing the same release from danger that he found in the quality of Deathlessness that we can touch within.

The word Sangha, on the external level, has two senses: conventional and ideal. In its ideal sense, the Sangha consists of all people, lay or ordained, who have practiced the Dhamma to the point of gaining at least a glimpse of the Deathless. In a conventional sense, Sangha denotes the communities of ordained monks and nuns. The two meanings overlap but are not necessarily identical. Some members of the ideal Sangha are not ordained; some monks and nuns have yet to touch the Deathless. All those who take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha become members of the Buddha's four-fold assembly*(parisa)*of followers: monks, nuns, male lay devotees, and female lay devotees. Although there's a widespread belief that all Buddhist followers are members of the Sangha, this is not the case. Only those who are ordained are members of the conventional Sangha; only those who have glimpsed the Deathless are members of the ideal Sangha. Nevertheless, any followers who don't belong to the Sangha in either sense of the word still count as genuine Buddhists in that they are members of the Buddha's*parisa.

When taking refuge in the external Sangha, one takes refuge in both senses of the Sangha, but the two senses provide different levels of refuge. The conventional Sangha has helped keep the teaching alive for more than 2,500 years. Without them, we would never have learned what the Buddha taught. However, not all members of the conventional Sangha are reliable models of behavior. So when looking for guidance in the conduct of our lives, we must look to the living and recorded examples provided by the ideal Sangha. Without their example, we would not know (1) that Awakening is available to all, and not just to the Buddha; and (2) how Awakening expresses itself in real life.

On the internal level, the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha are the skillful qualities we develop in our own minds in imitation of our external models. For instance, the Buddha was a person of wisdom, purity, and compassion. When we develop wisdom, purity, and compassion in our own minds, they form our refuge on an internal level. The Buddha tasted Awakening by developing conviction, persistence, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment. When we develop these same qualities to the point of attaining Awakening too, that Awakening is our ultimate refuge. This is the point where the three aspects of the Triple Gem become one: beyond the reach of greed, anger, and delusion, and thus totally secure.

A nice explaination of taking refuge from accesstoinsight....

[sky]

They go to many a refuge, to mountains, forests, parks, trees, and shrines: people threatened with danger. That's not the secure refuge, that's not the highest refuge, that's not the refuge, having gone to which, you gain release from all suffering and stress. But when, having gone for refuge to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, you see with right discernment the four Noble Truths — stress, the cause of stress, the transcending of stress, and the Noble Eightfold Path, the way to the stilling of stress: That's the secure refuge, that, the highest refuge, that is the refuge, having gone to which, you gain release from all suffering and stress.

— Dhammapada, 188-192

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

Seeing that a person only needs to know what taking refuge is if they are actually going to take refuge, I won't go into all that.

I'm more concerned with what is pertinent to thread participants, and how that relates to refuge. If you are reading in this section, you must be interested in Dhamma (the teachings of Buddhism). Though we are not a community of monks, we are the community or sangha that make this place what it is.

There are conditions a place must provide to be worthy of being regarded as a refuge. To be worth taking refuge in. Primarily, it must be safe, which is to say, free of abuses, insults, denigration and so forth. No one would take refuge in a place where that occurs, and we couldn't call such a place a refuge.

I suggest that taking refuge is essentially an act of trust, to have faith that the people who make up the refuge place will be kind, considerate and care for each other's well-being. We'd call this 'loving kindness' in Buddhist terminology, which implies our good-will.

This brings up ethical considerations, which are pretty simple on the surface of it - don't kill, lie, steal, take advantage and so on - but this needs to be coherently understood beyond the superficial. 'Good conduct' needs to arise from wisdom and understanding, and not out of mere obedience to moral rules. There are those who obey out of blind faith, fear of kamma or the wrath of God... but as I like to say, 'obedience is unethical'.

In this way, refuge and morality start to fit together. A refuge demands ethical conditions, so in Buddhist formalities, taking refuge and vows of morality go hand in hand. We are not undertaking the formalities here, but the reasoning behind the formality is plausible, it adds up and makes sense - albeit informally.

For me discipline and my actions move me when they come into that space of wisdom and understanding,I notice it as a natural movement and flow on from that point that moves more freely, feeling safe, aware to do so.I am very conscious of those openings in my own "refuge" space now, so I can relate through my own practice in my own way.The Buddhist refuge, I suspect through those formalities providing discipline and focus in formalities, would have served me well, to build that refuge without so many distractions. I was very undisciplined and extremely unfocused so my networks were all over the shop..I can see through the wisdom and understanding in the way I did develop it, how important it becomes for more lasting grounded change. I take action, more disciplined and ongoing, when I feel the clarity in my own wisdom and understanding. Which of course, then becomes walking my talk more complete as all that..

Our jails as a Buddhist refuge....now there's a thought.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Taking refuge to me is taking refuge in The Buddha, not here. That's too much to ask.
It is as you say an act of trust and faith but in The Buddha context that is placing trust in his teachings to the point where faith is no longer needed.

Most aren't to going take refuge in any formal Buddhist sense, so I figured it's not particularly relevant here, except to say, if a person is going to take refuge in a Buddhist sense, then they should understand what it all means before they do it.

When I say it's an act of trust, I mean the whole situation has to be trustworthy, which necessitates ethical conduct that ensures safety, well-being, and even the benefit.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

The act of going for refuge marks the point where one commits oneself to taking the Dhamma, or the Buddha's teaching, as the primary guide to one's life. To understand why this commitment is called a "refuge," it's helpful to look at the history of the custom.

In pre-Buddhist India, going for refuge meant proclaiming one's allegiance to a patron — a powerful person or god — submitting to the patron's directives in hopes of receiving protection from danger in return. In the early years of the Buddha's teaching career, his new followers adopted this custom to express their allegiance to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, but in the Buddhist context this custom took on a new meaning.

Buddhism is not a theistic religion — the Buddha is not a god — and so a person taking refuge in the Buddhist sense is not asking for the Buddha personally to intervene to provide protection. Still, one of the Buddha's central teachings is that human life is fraught with dangers — from greed, anger, and delusion — and so the concept of refuge is central to the path of practice, in that the practice is aimed at gaining release from those dangers. Because the mind is the source both of the dangers and of release, there is a need for two levels of refuge: external refuges, which provide models and guidelines so that we can identify which qualities in the mind lead to danger and which to release; and internal refuges, i.e., the qualities leading to release that we develop in our own mind in imitation of our external models. The internal level is where true refuge is found.

Although the tradition of going to refuge is an ancient practice, it is still relevant for our own practice today, for we are faced with the same internal dangers that faced people in the Buddha's time. We still need the same protection as they. When a Buddhist takes refuge, it is essentially an act of taking refuge in the doctrine of karma: It's an act of submission in that one is committed to living in line with the principle that actions based on skillful intentions lead to happiness, while actions based on unskillful intentions lead to suffering; it's an act of claiming protection in that, by following the teaching, one hopes to avoid the misfortunes that bad karma engenders. To take refuge in this way ultimately means to take refuge in the quality of our own intentions, for that's where the essence of karma lies.

The refuges in Buddhism — both on the internal and on the external levels — are the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, also known as the Triple Gem. They are called gems both because they are valuable and because, in ancient times, gems were believed to have protective powers. The Triple Gem outdoes other gems in this respect because its protective powers can be put to the test and can lead further than those of any physical gem, all the way to absolute freedom from the uncertainties of the realm of aging, illness, and death.

The Buddha, on the external level, refers to Siddhattha Gotama, the Indian prince who renounced his royal titles and went into the forest, meditating until he ultimately gained Awakening. To take refuge in the Buddha means, not taking refuge in him as a person, but taking refuge in the fact of his Awakening: placing trust in the belief that he did awaken to the truth, that he did so by developing qualities that we too can develop, and that the truths to which he awoke provide the best perspective for the conduct of our life.

The Dhamma, on the external level, refers to the path of practice the Buddha taught to this followers. This, in turn, is divided into three levels: the words of his teachings, the act of putting those teachings into practice, and the attainment of Awakening as the result of that practice. This three-way division of the word "Dhamma" acts as a map showing how to take the external refuges and make them internal: learning about the teachings, using them to develop the qualities that the Buddha himself used to attain Awakening, and then realizing the same release from danger that he found in the quality of Deathlessness that we can touch within.

The word Sangha, on the external level, has two senses: conventional and ideal. In its ideal sense, the Sangha consists of all people, lay or ordained, who have practiced the Dhamma to the point of gaining at least a glimpse of the Deathless. In a conventional sense, Sangha denotes the communities of ordained monks and nuns. The two meanings overlap but are not necessarily identical. Some members of the ideal Sangha are not ordained; some monks and nuns have yet to touch the Deathless. All those who take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha become members of the Buddha's four-fold assembly*(parisa)*of followers: monks, nuns, male lay devotees, and female lay devotees. Although there's a widespread belief that all Buddhist followers are members of the Sangha, this is not the case. Only those who are ordained are members of the conventional Sangha; only those who have glimpsed the Deathless are members of the ideal Sangha. Nevertheless, any followers who don't belong to the Sangha in either sense of the word still count as genuine Buddhists in that they are members of the Buddha's*parisa.

When taking refuge in the external Sangha, one takes refuge in both senses of the Sangha, but the two senses provide different levels of refuge. The conventional Sangha has helped keep the teaching alive for more than 2,500 years. Without them, we would never have learned what the Buddha taught. However, not all members of the conventional Sangha are reliable models of behavior. So when looking for guidance in the conduct of our lives, we must look to the living and recorded examples provided by the ideal Sangha. Without their example, we would not know (1) that Awakening is available to all, and not just to the Buddha; and (2) how Awakening expresses itself in real life.

On the internal level, the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha are the skillful qualities we develop in our own minds in imitation of our external models. For instance, the Buddha was a person of wisdom, purity, and compassion. When we develop wisdom, purity, and compassion in our own minds, they form our refuge on an internal level. The Buddha tasted Awakening by developing conviction, persistence, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment. When we develop these same qualities to the point of attaining Awakening too, that Awakening is our ultimate refuge. This is the point where the three aspects of the Triple Gem become one: beyond the reach of greed, anger, and delusion, and thus totally secure.

A nice explaination of taking refuge from accesstoinsight....

Well said.

[Ground]

"Monks, be islands unto yourselves, be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other. Those who are islands unto themselves... should investigate to the very heart of things ...


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....043.wlsh.html


This is valid reliable refuge. No teacher, no sangha but rational analysis and authentic buddhist texts (= 'dhamma').
Why?
Because only if one validly knows for oneself imperturbable certainty can arise.


Most people nowadays however take refuge in each other: fearfully they flock together like a herd of sheep affirming each others ignorance or waiting for one to stand up or to appear to tell them where to go and whom they then follow blindly. Those will continually waver between belief and doubt and anxiously grasp at and defend their empty beliefs like precious diamonds but never attain imperturbable certainty. Poor sheep.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

For me discipline and my actions move me when they come into that space of wisdom and understanding,I notice it as a natural movement and flow on from that point that moves more freely, feeling safe, aware to do so.I am very conscious of those openings in my own "refuge" space now, so I can relate through my own practice in my own way.The Buddhist refuge, I suspect through those formalities providing discipline and focus in formalities, would have served me well, to build that refuge without so many distractions. I was very undisciplined and extremely unfocused so my networks were all over the shop..I can see through the wisdom and understanding in the way I did develop it, how important it becomes for more lasting grounded change. I take action, more disciplined and ongoing, when I feel the clarity in my own wisdom and understanding. Which of course, then becomes walking my talk more complete as all that..

Our jails as a Buddhist refuge....now there's a thought.

I have seen 2 good documentaries on meditation retreats set up in prisons. Dhamma Brothers and Doing Time Doing Vipassana - These retreats follow the same meditation tradition I studied in. Worth a look.

For me there are the typical human struggles. But I treat this place as if it's a Buddhist place, so that I'm reminded of all the 'right' such as outlined in the 8 path - which aren't Buddhist principles in particular, but the way Gotama listed a facet which is universal to human beings. It doesn't matter to call yourself atheist, Christian, Buddhist or NaturesFlow, so all this Buddhist stuff is actually human stuff, and as for a succession of blokes in robes keeping the teaching alive, it would make no difference if they didn't, as there are many enlightened teachers apart from Gotama, who is actually less relevant now, having died long ago. The monks are basically taking care of a mummy and trying to stop it from decay, and we give that so much importance we defeat the teaching itself.

So you have your say, a refuge within, and I get it even though I'm fraught with anxieties myself, and of course it's not for me to say 'That's not what refuge is', and pound you on the head with a dusty old book, right? Hahaha. I generally consider myself to be 'safe person'. People won't come to harm with me, but I'm not a perfect person, just a regular guy, so for me there's a discipline involved in knowing what I'm doing and exercising restraint when I know I'm losing the plot, and best not act upon my harsh volitions. It's different to resistance in the sense that I can feel things an let them reach their full potential, but I needn't be overwhelmed by them and compelled into hurting others in the expression of my own torment. Hehe - and they it's simple... teehee.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Gem

If you are reading in this section, you must be interested in Dhamma (the teachings of Buddhism).

Good afternoon Gem

No, just being nosy Sorry all gobbledygook to me, forever looking up words and meanings etc.